New discus keeper needing help

[Top_Dog]

Hiya guys and girls,
Never kept Discus before but decided to give it a go. I have a 750litre tank bare bottom with a few plants in pots.
Ive bought 12 discus fish mostly 3” and two 4/5” but since ive put them in the tank 5 of them have stayed black it been over 2 weeks now. They are eating well and swmining around.
Ive tried to deworm them twice with kusuri dewormer with no luck with them collaring up. Also had one of the larger nice colured discus darting around like mad the other day but hes stopped now.

50% water changes every teo days.

[Mattgoanna]

Just keep up the water changes and food. If they are eating and moving around ok then I wouldn’t do anything just yet. Keep an eye on their gills and make sure they are using both. The darting can be irritation from gill flukes. Normally they will stop using one gill if they have them.

[daffers1986]

My personal opinion, although I’m sure opinions vary, is that 12 discus in a 750 is vastly under stocked. Too much space for not enough fish. A larger group will help them settle.

I have 16 in a 350 and I’d probably want another 8 in there. I only have less because I’m down sizing. Similar size fish as yours with DAILY 50% changes. Which is needed if you want full growth potential.

[Top_Dog]

Just keep up the water changes and food. If they are eating and moving around ok then I wouldn’t do anything just yet. Keep an eye on their gills and make sure they are using both. The darting can be irritation from gill flukes. Normally they will stop using one gill if they have them.

Was thinking of using waterlife sterazin to rule out any gill Flukes..


My personal opinion, although I’m sure opinions vary, is that 12 discus in a 750 is vastly under stocked. Too much space for not enough fish. A larger group will help them settle.

I have 16 in a 350 and I’d probably want another 8 in there. I only have less because I’m down sizing. Similar size fish as yours with DAILY 50% changes. Which is needed if you want full growth potential.
Was thinking of getting some other types of fish in with them..maybe small angels and see how they get on. Been told if i keep them at a young age they should be able to live in harmony..

[daffers1986]

Was thinking of using waterlife sterazin to rule out any gill Flukes..


Was thinking of getting some other types of fish in with them..maybe small angels and see how they get on. Been told if i keep them at a young age they should be able to live in harmony..

I’ve only ever had bad experiences with Angels but I know that plenty have had good experiences so it’s certainly worth a try. Filling the empty space should help and it’s better to do it with other stock rather than objects they can hide behind and make the situation worse.

[Mattgoanna]

Don’t treat for flukes unless you see evidence that they may have them. Cardinal or Rummy Nose tetras, sterbai Cory’s and Bolivian Rams work well. Angels can be done, but disease risk is high.

[Top_Dog]

I’ve only ever had bad experiences with Angels but I know that plenty have had good experiences so it’s certainly worth a try. Filling the empty space should help and it’s better to do it with other stock rather than objects they can hide behind and make the situation worse.
What bad experiences have you had with angels?


Don’t treat for flukes unless you see evidence that they may have them. Cardinal or Rummy Nose tetras, sterbai Cory’s and Bolivian Rams work well. Angels can be done, but disease risk is high.
What signs should the discus be showing if they have flukes? Also is their a bulletproof way of making sure angels don’t give the dicus any dieases? Medication etc?

[Mattgoanna]

Discus with flukes will close one gill, rub themselves on objects (called flashing) and occasionally dart across the tank.
You can worm angelfish for tapeworm, flukes etc, however there is a possibility they will have diseases that are resistance to treatment. Praziquantel treatment and a dip in Potassium Permanganate (PP) would be the go. Research the PP first as it can be dangerous.

[Filip]

Hi Top dog and welcome to discus .
How long do you have them and how did you cycle your filter prior their arival ?
Do you have any other fish in the tank before you got your discus ?

Point is , maybe they got some minor cross contamination from your prior plants or fish in the tank , hence the darkening or maybe your filter is not fully cycled so you have traces of No2 and NH3 as irritants in the water , hence the darting and flashing .

I would stop randomly throwing meds at this point , and I would most certainly stop adding any new fish or plants from other tanks because it can further complicate your original issue .
As long as they eat and swim , as you said , you are still on the safe side and you should just give your best with aged water WCs and keeping the filter and tank maintenance on top .

Good luck Top dog , and please post us some photos of your monster tank and your discus .

[daffers1986]

What bad experiences have you had with angels

My experiences have been angels harassing my discus, dominating food etc. And when I’m trying to grow discus large as possible I want them eating all the food, not having to fight for it.

[brewmaster15]

My experiences have been angels harassing my discus, dominating food etc. And when I’m trying to grow discus large as possible I want them eating all the food, not having to fight for it.

I agree 100%. You can definitely keep healthy angels with healthy discus. I have done so as have many others but Angels can be very aggressive feeders.Its best to grow out Discus separate from angels. Id go one further and even say its best to grow out discus alone entirely.

hth,
al

[Top_Dog]

Discus with flukes will close one gill, rub themselves on objects (called flashing) and occasionally dart across the tank.
You can worm angelfish for tapeworm, flukes etc, however there is a possibility they will have diseases that are resistance to treatment. Praziquantel treatment and a dip in Potassium Permanganate (PP) would be the go. Research the PP first as it can be dangerous.

Thanks for your detailed reply... didnt relaise the risks involved. I will deworm etc the angel prior to adding when discus are more settled.


Hi Top dog and welcome to discus .
How long do you have them and how did you cycle your filter prior their arival ?
Do you have any other fish in the tank before you got your discus ?

Point is , maybe they got some minor cross contamination from your prior plants or fish in the tank , hence the darkening or maybe your filter is not fully cycled so you have traces of No2 and NH3 as irritants in the water , hence the darting and flashing .

I would stop randomly throwing meds at this point , and I would most certainly stop adding any new fish or plants from other tanks because it can further complicate your original issue .
As long as they eat and swim , as you said , you are still on the safe side and you should just give your best with aged water WCs and keeping the filter and tank maintenance on top .

Good luck Top dog , and please post us some photos of your monster tank and your discus .

Hi, thanks for the warm welcome. I had seeded media from a established tank. Thiers no fish in the tank but maybe ur right in saying their might be irritants in the tank like the cleaning products i used to clean out. Even though i gave it a very good cleanout to get rid of them.

I will not through in any medication in the tank and wait and see how they get on. The breeder i bought them off used normal decolrinated tap water and so do i...what do you mean by aged water and is it nessary.


My experiences have been angels harassing my discus, dominating food etc. And when I’m trying to grow discus large as possible I want them eating all the food, not having to fight for it.

Even when they were small? I did think the angels would out compete them after seeing how slow the discus eat.


I agree 100%. You can definitely keep healthy angels with healthy discus. I have done so as have many others but Angels can be very aggressive feeders.Its best to grow out Discus separate from angels. Id go one further and even say its best to grow out discus alone entirely.

hth,
al

I was told that if kept at early age the would get on better. But if i wait untill their grown will it not cause problems?

[brewmaster15]

Adult discus tend to be hardier then young ones.And if they are grown you have less impact from aggressively feeding angels.

al

[daffers1986]

I agree 100%. You can definitely keep healthy angels with healthy discus. I have done so as have many others but Angels can be very aggressive feeders.Its best to grow out Discus separate from angels. Id go one further and even say its best to grow out discus alone entirely.

hth,
al

If I’m growing discus they are the only thing in the tank other than water. No filter taking up any space, nothing to hide behind to cause issues with shyness, no other fish to compete for food or introduce disease. Nothing.

Once adult, there’s no big deal with them missing out on a feed here and there because they haven’t competed for the food. But I personally wouldn’t ever put Angels with discus for the reasons I’ve mentioned but if I did it would probably be juvie angels with adult discus but would still expect the angels to try and run the tank once bigger/older.

[Filip]

Topdog , aged water is tapwater that is left with an aeration for 24 hours prior using it for water change . Gasses in water that may cause irritations to discus are outgassed that way and the PH differences is equalized (more or less )with your tank water preventing pH shocks during WCs.
I'm not sure if your filter is fully cycled yet , and I would increase the aged water WC in this initial stage just as a precaution IIWY.

[Top_Dog]

Adult discus tend to be hardier then young ones.And if they are grown you have less impact from aggressively feeding angels.

al

Ok i understand now, maybe i will let them grow then try adding angels.


If I’m growing discus they are the only thing in the tank other than water. No filter taking up any space, nothing to hide behind to cause issues with shyness, no other fish to compete for food or introduce disease. Nothing.

Once adult, there’s no big deal with them missing out on a feed here and there because they haven’t competed for the food. But I personally wouldn’t ever put Angels with discus for the reasons I’ve mentioned but if I did it would probably be juvie angels with adult discus but would still expect the angels to try and run the tank once bigger/older.

Yeah i can also see that happening as angels are pretty aggresive when feeding time comes. Doesnt seem to be as easy as i thought It would be.


Topdog , aged water is tapwater that is left with an aeration for 24 hours prior using it for water change . Gasses in water that may cause irritations to discus are outgassed that way and the PH differences is equalized (more or less )with your tank water preventing pH shocks during WCs.
I'm not sure if your filter is fully cycled yet , and I would increase the aged water WC in this initial stage just as a precaution IIWY.

That would be alot of extra work to age 300litres of water every other day for water changes :-/

[Filip]

In most cases doing +50% WCs with straight tap water may stress discus and strip their slimecoat during a WC (more or less depending on tap parameters and present gasses ) .
Maybe you should consider doing more frequent but smaller WCs if you do straight tap WC .

[daffers1986]

In most cases doing +50% WCs with straight tap water may stress discus and strip their slimecoat during a WC (more or less depending on tap parameters and present gasses ) .
Maybe you should consider doing more frequent but smaller WCs if you do straight tap WC .

For balance. At least 50% water changes every day, with no issues around slime coat, straight out of the tap. This is with my tap water but I have done the same in different areas of the country. If growing discus, I would suggest this as a minimum, or a constant drip feed system that equates to the same amount.

[brewmaster15]

For balance. At least 50% water changes every day, with no issues around slime coat, straight out of the tap. This is with my tap water but I have done the same in different areas of the country. If growing discus, I would suggest this as a minimum, or a constant drip feed system that equates to the same amount.

Are you on a well or city water?

[daffers1986]

Are you on a well or city water?

City water. Uk. From tap to tank to 7 inch fish.

[brewmaster15]

City water. Uk. From tap to tank to 7 inch fish.




You are very lucky then. If I did 50% water changes straight from my tap, I'd seriously stress my discus out and lose a few juvies...Far too much dissolved gasses in my well water.CO2. My tap has a pH of 5.5 winter 6.5 summer... aerated and aged its settles at 7.6-7.8

I would love to see pics someday of your fish and tanks nothing like a tank of big discus. I see you are new here...Belated Welcome! We have a tank journal area and photo sections if you feel like sharing..

al

[daffers1986]

You are very lucky then. If I did 50% water changes straight from my tap, I'd seriously stress my discus out and lose a few juvies...Far too much dissolved gasses in my well water.CO2. My tap has a pH of 5.5 winter 6.5 summer... aerated and aged its settles at 7.6-7.8

I would love to see pics someday of your fish and tanks nothing like a tank of big discus. I see you are new here...Belated Welcome! We have a tank journal area and photo sections if you feel like sharing..

al

I’ve never experienced having to use well water but I sympathise given what you described there. We’re pretty lucky over here, although hardness can vary, the water is very stable so as long as you don’t mess with it chemically it is a very straight forward process.

Thanks for the welcome! I haven’t worked out how to upload pics using my phone but when I go on the comp, I’ll head over to that area.