Liz's Angels

[RogueDiscus]

I’ve never kept Angels, but I’d read their requirements were similar to discus.’ When I heard Liz was looking to re-home some, I decided to jump in and give in a try, and “bought” 6 pairs from her. OMG! I don’t think I’ve ever seen an angelfish other than a LFS juvie. The fish she sent me are gorgeous and huge.
I plan to try to sell most of them, and keep a pair or two. Thanks Liz!!!

I know this is kind of a tease, and I'll post some pics soon, but I had to post.

Steve

[Willie]

Ditto for me, Steve. Her half blacks are amazing, Willie

[Pices]

What did you get Steve? I wasn’t a huge angel fan until I saw her half blacks and german blues. Then I saw those baby blue plats and I had my 75 gal set. I’m going to add some Cory’s and schooling fish later, but they are the main show. Are you going to breed yours?
Patty

[RogueDiscus]

I may try to breed a pair, but I need to try to sell off some first so I have room. I got 1 pair of German Blue Blushers, 1 pair of Silver pearlscales, 2 pairs of Gold pearls, and 2 pairs of Blue Marble pearls. I plan to keep a marble pair at least.

A couple quick pics this evening.

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[RogueDiscus]

I realized folks couldn't comment in the Livestock Review section so I moved this thread to my homestead.

[jeep]

Very nice Steve and Liz!!! I have family near there and would love to make a trip to the Pan Handle and pick up Royal Reds and some of Liz's angels!!!

[RogueDiscus]

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[LizStreithorst]

I'm so pleased that you like them so much, Steve. BTW, the ones you think are Blue Silver Pearls are Blue Platinum Pearls. The Blue Silvers I couldn't fit in the box.

Which pair do you like best? I like the Dark Blue Marble Pearl pair although they're not as flashy as the Light Blue Marble Pearl pair. Of course, the German Blue Blusher pair are also excellent and they're parent raisers, to boot.

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks Liz. I actually cut and pasted their names from your email after you sent them. :) Hard to say which I like best. I do like the marble pair and the platinums, too. They're all nice!

[LizStreithorst]

Forgive me, Steve. As you know I have this thing with my back. I go easy on the drugs, but sometimes I'm foggy headed, and sometimes I have zero energy, and sometimes I'm fine. Back when I was sending you pics I was both foggy headed and lacking in energy. The mistake was mine.

The most important thing to me is that the fish arrived alive despite having had a rough trip. I try so hard to bag and pack as meticulously as I am able. It was a great relief to hear that there was zero leakage. I worry so much about big fish like them finning a bag.

Here's the pic that is really of Blue Silver Pearls.

[RogueDiscus]

Liz, your packing was great. No leaks at all. I certainly know what you mean about the hard rays poking through the bag. My issue these days is that my hands are having a harder time wrapping the rubber bands tight enough. Boxing a dozen fish wears them out.

I thought the silvers had the bar. I really like the platinums. I'll definitely keep the black marble pair, but I will make the others available at least to the person who has already expressed interest in buying. Maybe they won't like the plats :)

[LizStreithorst]

Rubber bands have always whupped my arse but it's not due to arthritis. I think I'm just a clumsy rubber bander. I'm in awe when I see how fast others band a bag.

Listen, it you are taken by the Plats keep them. I have a ton more of them but they aren't yet breeding age. They will produce more Plat Pearls. You will get no variety in the offspring. If you're into selling, that is a draw back. The same is true of all the other strains I sent except the Blue Marble Pearls. Depending on the recessive genes they carry you might see a large variety of strains in their offspring.

[RogueDiscus]

The buyer wanted a marble pair and they picked a silver from the pics you had too, but I didn't get any of them. I'll say again that your German Blue Blusher pics did not do them justice. I have no problem saving the nicer marble pair for myself. Maybe I'll do the same with the plats.

When you say the marble will throw a variety of strains, what would that look like? Some solid color? Different colors, pearl/non-pearl, mostly marble...?

[LizStreithorst]

All Pearlscale. All blue. The rest depends on hidden genes. Everything I sent you came from a Blue Marble Pearl pair that I got form a kid on Aquabid. They were close to breeding age and very high quality and cheap on top of that. The kid's stock came from a highly respected Angelfish breeder who is taking a break from the hobby now.

I bred sib to sib and over the generations I got all the strains you have in your tank as well as some sunsets. I can't tell you exactly what you will get because these recessive genes are hidden. Only way you can tell is by breeding them. You will get mostly offspring that look like their parents, but if they carry recessive genes, which is likely, and those recessive get together you will get other strains. I was surprised by what these Marbles produced. It was fun!

[RogueDiscus]

That's awesome, Liz. It takes at least a year to get discus to breeding age, so any sib crossing is a committed long term process. I did it once probably 5-6 years ago with a CB pair. I'm hoping to get some F2's from my snakeskin fry (AL has some! I'm jealous.).

How long does it take for angels to reach breeding age, on average?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm bad about "how long". I've always been that way. It's one of my failings. If you take care of the Angels same as you take care of Discus, they reach breeding age much sooner. I'm guessing, but I think around 6 months to breeding age. It's still a project that requires tank space.

[RogueDiscus]

I'm lucky to have my son's family, with three young grandkids, about a half a block way. They went to visit my oldest this past weekend in SoCal. They stopped at the Monterey aquarium. My SoCal daughter and grandson (and the 6 mo old girl!) came up and met them from SB. They've always enjoyed my fish, but I'm excited to talk to them about their time at the aquarium!

[RogueDiscus]

They're in a 75, probably filled to about 60 (darn leak). I changed half their water today with RO and some tap. TDS went from 230 to 160 ppm. They took a while, but they got comfortable and started pecking at each other, establishing pairs. I figure that's a good thing. :)

[RogueDiscus]

One of the Marble pairs spawned on the rock today. You might barely be able to see eggs behind her. Bad time of day for pics, glare.
Steve


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[LizStreithorst]

Excellent!!!!

[Adam S]

Are they parent raisers? It's fun watching them "flick" when the fry start swimming. :D

[Pices]

That is so cool!
Patty

[RogueDiscus]

Are they parent raisers? It's fun watching them "flick" when the fry start swimming. :D

Liz says all of her fry have been parent raised, so we'll see if these guys will do it. I'm not going to bother with artificial for now if they don't.


That is so cool!
Patty

Thanks Patty. I've had nothing but discus for so long, it's fun seeing some other fish.

[Pices]

I know what you mean Steve. I’m really enjoying mine too. I love the German Blues when the light hits them just right and those iridescent colors in them shine. You’re right that pictures don’t do them justice.
Patty

[brewmaster15]

Beautiful Fish Liz and Steve! :)

I love Angels almost as much as Discus but they are worse than Tribbles..:) so beware or you will be over run!

al

[LizStreithorst]

That's the truth, Al. The breed like flies. They're great if you have a ready market.

[Dudley Eirich]

I'm bad about "how long". I've always been that way. It's one of my failings. If you take care of the Angels same as you take care of Discus, they reach breeding age much sooner. I'm guessing, but I think around 6 months to breeding age. It's still a project that requires tank space.

I met a fellow once who raised angelfish semi-commercially and used children's swimming pools for raising fry. He had about 10 or more in his basement. I don't remember the details of heat, aeration and filtration though. It was longer ago than I care to think about.

[LizStreithorst]

Before the family owned wholesaler in south Louisiana sold out to a big company I would grow out Angels in 190 gallon containers I put in the middle of the fish room. They only paid a buck each for quarter sized Angels but they would take 200 every two weeks. These days my main outlet is my LFS. They pay more per fish but can't take but a couple of dozen at a time and instead of every two weeks, it's every month or two.

[Second Hand Pat]

That is quite the fishroom Liz. Bet you have a lot of fun in there!! :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks. I love my fish room. It's a comfortable place to sleep, too.

[Scribbles]

Beautiful fish.

Liz, I love your fish room!

[Dudley Eirich]

Compared to your beautiful fish room, my poor fish live in the slums. It looks nice, is well constructed, and appears to be very efficient and well designed. Good job!

[RogueDiscus]

The marble pair I got from Liz has taken over the cone end of the tank. Here the golds and plats are fighting over the heater cord!

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[LizStreithorst]

They need another cone, Steve.

[RogueDiscus]

Yes, but it mostly means they're happy, so me too!

[LizStreithorst]

Yes. If the pairs will want to get it on if they're happy. You're doing a great job with them. They're easy for a Discus person because they're the same but easier.

[RogueDiscus]

Both Gold pairs have wigglers. What fun!

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[LizStreithorst]

I hope that you have smaller tank for when the eggs hatch. The other fish will chow down on the babies when they swim through the egg crate. Or you just testing the pair so see if they try to parent raise?

[fljones3]

Compared to your beautiful fish room, my poor fish live in the slums. It looks nice, is well constructed, and appears to be very efficient and well designed. Good job!

The fish will never know if you don’t show them the pictures! Lol!

[LizStreithorst]

The fish will never know if you don’t show them the pictures! Lol!

You're right. The fish only care about the quality of care in their box of water.

[RogueDiscus]

I hope that you have smaller tank for when the eggs hatch. The other fish will chow down on the babies when they swim through the egg crate. Or you just testing the pair so see if they try to parent raise?

Yes and yes. It's all an experiment at this point, but I will have the 55 available after my trip this weekend. The wigglers and the gold pair I'm selling are in there now. I might try to mix them with this pair, but if it doesn't work OK.

[RogueDiscus]

Ha! The marble pair spawned on the glass.

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[LizStreithorst]

All the pairs I sent you needed was a chance. I didn't have tank space to give them that. Turns out I sent them to the right guy.

[RogueDiscus]

OK, so IF I decide to try to raise them, I'm guessing a day or two until free-swimming. They don't feed off of the parents like discus, so have BBS ready?


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[LizStreithorst]

Congrats. I think the gold pearls are stunning. They take longer to free swim than Discus but yes, have your BBS ready. Don't be alarmed if they spend some time on the tank bottom. If there's BBS swimming in the water they'll swim up to catch it when they're hungry.

[Jack L]

liz, are all these tanks separate and just use sponge filters?

[RogueDiscus]

Hi Jack,
I've got three pairs in a 75 right now. I've separated the golds with some egg crate. i plan to get some polyfill tomorrow to create a better wall. If the fry do OK, I may commit more tank space to them.

[RogueDiscus]

Just got a million eggs from the marble pair. Must have finally got the tank right for them. Actually, they've spawned before, but it would be nice to confirm them, and what i'm doing.

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[LizStreithorst]

:D:D

[Pices]

Oh I hope they hatch Steve. Nice looking pair. Keep us posted.
Patty

[RogueDiscus]

So, the Gold Pearlscales spawned and I've actually tried to give them a chance. I removed the other angel pair and the rams that were in the tank. They just need to keep ahead of the corries and BN now. They've been on the leaf, or leaves for three days now, and just starting to try to swim away on there own. The parents keep bringing them back. They've moved them to different leaves a couple times. The BBS is ready. Maybe tomorrow. Hard to see, but I think there's still a couple hundred on the other side of the leaf.

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[danotaylor]

Really nice pair Steve, gr8 pics too mate!

[Disgirl]

Wow, really good pics Steve! I have some of the siblings of your fish, they sure are pretty aren't they? Liz has excellent fish!
Barb

[LizStreithorst]

You made me impressed with my own breeding, Steve. Now that I've taken a step back from most Angelfish breeding I can see that I did good work. Your pics are excellent. I hope the kids do well for you. If you raise some up I may want to buy some juvies back. I've always loved that strain.

[RogueDiscus]

Thanks Liz, Barb and Daniel. Just some lucky phone pics.