F1 Wild Green X Blue Snakeskin fry and updates!

[brewmaster15]

Since returning to Hobby Breeder status this past year I have really had to streamline what I try and Breed. I just don't have the space any more, or the time. I set a goal of snakeskins and wilds. I have a few prospective pairs right now, but my favorite pair is a wild Green Male XFine Line Blue Snakeskin Female. Two weeks ago they made me very very Happy.:)


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[brewmaster15]

2 days after the last set...


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[brewmaster15]

Taking pics was a bit of a pita as they are in a 55 gal tank and the reflections really made me crazy! I did not want to fuss with them much though so it is what it is.


I separated the pair just after these pics as I was going camping for the week and wasn't taking any chances. I drove back and forth from the campsite to feed them twice a day..As I type this the pair is literally spawning again.:evilgrin: Hopefully it goes as well this time.

al

[Discluv]

Gorgeous pair- congratulations.
By the way, if these are point and shoot pictures, when you try and take your time with your shots- they must be incredible.

[Second Hand Pat]

Absolutely gorgeous pair Al but I am loving that wild green. :D Looks like they are doing you proud. :D
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Beautiful! Looking forward to see how they turn out. Nice to see the wild bug bite the big boss here :)

[LizStreithorst]

I love them, too. If things go to plan, I will want some of those kids to cross with my Domestic RSG Blue Scorpion kids. At what size do you offer them for sale?

[brewmaster15]

Thanks everyone. They are definitely a promising pair.. If they do as my wild green crosses have done in the past they should be very interesting fry!

Mauro, The wild bug latched onto me a very long time ago and has never let go! :)

Liz, Honestly I dont know yet. Im looking for a few traits and won't be letting any of these go until I can see them. I will definitely keep you posted though!

Al

[brewmaster15]

They are growing out well as of today...

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Quick phone pic for size

Al

[LizStreithorst]

Al, I would like to be first on the list (unless someone is already first). I'm curious about what traits you are looking for.

[brewmaster15]

Liz, you are first on the list.:)The traits .. Basically I am trying to recreate a cross I did a while back...
Theres some old pics here..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?123594-An-old-Cross-revisited

This current cross may not throw anything like the old cross... The female there was pretty poorly shaped but was snakeskin and not commonly marked.. its color was very cool though and it had an interesting pattern.


Im interested in the snakeskins and believe there will be some very nice Turqs. Time will tell... I may need to get a good scorpion Snakeskin instead.
Al

[LizStreithorst]

Discus breeding is so cool. You never know what you're going to get.

I remember that thread and remember how impressed by the quality of the offspring considering the shape of the parents. The SS was not a good shape period. The wild was a good fish but it had the typical wild shape rather than a score card shape. And you raised them artificially, to boot. You must have doted on those fish when it came to maintenance to have gotten resulted in results like that. They should have been entered in a show.

I'm surprised that you got any SS's from that cross. I would have expected that you would have had no SS's from a wild. I didn't think that you'd get that unless you crossed the offspring together. With Discus you never know.

[Disgirl]

Wow Al, those are gorgeous fish! I am discusless right now, and those pics make me want more discus so badly. Best of luck with them!
Barb

[danotaylor]

Very nice Al. Looks like a stunning pair, and good parents as well. I noticed with the previous pair that there was an almost solid red fish with some pattern on the face. Was there more than 1 that looked like that? Do you think perhaps there will be some solid reds from this pair?

[matt2426]

Very Nice looking Discus good work AL!

[brewmaster15]

Very nice Al. Looks like a stunning pair, and good parents as well. I noticed with the previous pair that there was an almost solid red fish with some pattern on the face. Was there more than 1 that looked like that? Do you think perhaps there will be some solid reds from this pair?


I dont think so Danny, That old cross was from around 12-14 years ago. Back then it seems red snakeskins were more prevalent.We dont see that many now...Probably because of the wide spread availibility of leopard snakes now. . I suspect that red snake in the old cross was from the snakeskin female then.Its a guess. At this point the current cross are too young to really tell though if theres anything unusual.

al

[brewmaster15]

Wow Al, those are gorgeous fish! I am discusless right now, and those pics make me want more discus so badly. Best of luck with them!
Barb

Hi Barb!
I didn't realize you were Discus-less!:(:(:(

al

[brewmaster15]

Very Nice looking Discus good work AL!

Thanks Matt!
Hopefully all continues to go well with them.

al

[LizStreithorst]

Forgive me, Al. I was wrong about the SS thing. It's been a while since I was serious about Discus.

[brewmaster15]

Forgive me, Al. I was wrong about the SS thing. It's been a while since I was serious about Discus.

No worries Liz... Snakeskin genetics are interesting and there may be a bit more there for us all to.learn :)

[danotaylor]

Thanks for the reply Al. I will be watching the development of these fry. I wonder if there will be any anomalies produced through the genetics of the domestic strain...all the best mate!

[Swedgin]

This looks great Al, really looking forward to seeing the fry develop. Definitely an interesting mix. And.....
Teach me photography please ��

[snxtif]

I separated the pair just after these pics as I was going camping for the week and wasn't taking any chances. I drove back and forth from the campsite to feed them twice a day..

al

You know who's the REAL boss of the house when you have to plan your vacation/holiday based on his/her demand. :bandana:

Amazing pair/fries you have!

Cyrus

[Pices]

My first thought on seeing the first pic was WOW and I just kept repeating it as I saw the next pic, and the next. I’m beside myself! Oh how I want some of these!
Patty

[sanjay21]

Wow ! they are beautiful !!
I could watch them all day, very interested to see how the fry will turn out :)

Do you see different types of fry Al ? it maybe to be too early to notice the difference, but just checking.

[brewmaster15]

This looks great Al, really looking forward to seeing the fry develop. Definitely an interesting mix. And.....
Teach me photography please ��

Thanks Tobi! I would be happy to pass along what I know of photography anytime.

[brewmaster15]

You know who's the REAL boss of the house when you have to plan your vacation/holiday based on his/her demand. :bandana:

Amazing pair/fries you have!

Cyrus

Thanks Cyrus!

Yes the fish are boss and I had forgotten how much work fry are! One batch of fry is hard enough.. a couple and its a challenge trying to go anywhere!
al

[brewmaster15]

My first thought on seeing the first pic was WOW and I just kept repeating it as I saw the next pic, and the next. I’m beside myself! Oh how I want some of these!
Patty
Thanks Patty,
Hopefully they turn out as well as the parents!
Al

[brewmaster15]

Wow ! they are beautiful !!
I could watch them all day, very interested to see how the fry will turn out :)

Do you see different types of fry Al ? it maybe to be too early to notice the difference, but just checking.

Thanks Sanjay,
So far I can see only snakeskins and non-snakes. I will document as good as possible on them.
al

[Hiball1]

Wow what a nice pair. Wild greens are my favorite. I am also interested to see the grow outs as they age.
Sean

[brady]

Al
Awesome. Put me down as a prospective buyer of these.
Jay

[Adam S]

Hard to beat wild greens. Congrats, Al.

Any plans to try spawning just the greens?

[William Palumbo]

Nice fish Al!...Always wanted to try that cross, but never got around to it, and when I did the wilds had no interest in my SS's. Do keep us posted...Bill

[jimg]

very nice!

[brewmaster15]

Flickr links removed ... info here. (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?134194-All-Good-things-come-to-an-end-Flickr-changes-coming-and-they-are-not-good)

[Mando]

Flickr links removed ... info here. (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?134194-All-Good-things-come-to-an-end-Flickr-changes-coming-and-they-are-not-good)

Flickr is being a royal pain in the arse!

Your fish look so magnificent.

[brewmaster15]

Thank you Mando!:)

al

[Combo]

al
awesome. Put me down as a prospective buyer of these.
Jay

yes put me on the list too!!!!! Parents look great!!

[Swedgin]

So what’s the latest on these?

[brewmaster15]

So what’s the latest on these?

They are growing out still Tobi... right now theres not much to show colorwise....
I have 2 spawns growing out right now.I

I will try update some pics in a bit.

Al

[Swedgin]

Cool, looking forward

[brewmaster15]

Hi all.
I was asked for some pics of the fry from this pair as I have some for sale in the classifieds on Simply. The following pics are from two separate spawns sharing the same tank. Same parents though. These are still developing patterns. Last time I did this cross along time ago with different individuals I noticed 3 phenotyopes: Snakeskins, turqs, and what I can best describe as "wild". This cross has produced the same phenotypes best I can see. I have not culled these for shape and most likely will not anytime soon.I am more interested in the patterns.

So... heres my work in progress, F1 Wild Green X Blue Snakeskin.

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[brewmaster15]

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[Second Hand Pat]

Nice Al, exciting cross. I would think the ones with the least color development to be the wild types at this stage. I am basing this on color development from some F1 greens I had a while back. Is this what you are seeing?
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Yes Pat, the ones with the brownish base and lighter blue will most likely look alot like wild discus, superficially wild Blues. Time will tell. I am actually most interested in these at this point.

al

[Adam S]

Al, if the wild was crossed with a turq instead of a SS, would any of the fry been SS?

[brewmaster15]

Hey Adam,
Given what we know about Snakeskin genetics and what we suspect I would not expect Snakeskins from a turq x wild even if the turqs parents were both snakeskins.

Honestly Im skeptical about alot of what we "know" about snakeskins.. like the speculation that a double dose of the snakeskin gene is lethal.

Id like to explore Snakeskin Genetics alot more.


Al

[brewmaster15]

Well its been a long while for an update so I thought I would do one. Its kind of ironic that years ago when I did this cross I only kept the snakeskins to grow out because of lack of space. For years after I kicked myself as I wanted to know what the non-snakeskins F1 s from the wild green and Domestic Snakes would look like. This time around I actually kept a whole mess of them and grew them out. Please understand that these are F1 ones, one parent is wild Green, one is domestic. As such growth, pattern, and shape are all affected in the F1s. Still, given that, I am really really really happy. I have so much variety I don't think I will ever get tired! For me theres a lot of potential in this cross. I have several groups going and probably 2/3 of all the tank space here is this cross right now.

Anyway, no these aren't show fish, They aren't meant to be. Im not much interested in that stuff really. They are future breeding stock...My current projects stock...Hope you enjoy them.
al

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[brewmaster15]

These are still very young and growing.. The patterns are still filling in on a bunch...

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[brewmaster15]

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[RogueDiscus]

Very nice Al, and your pics present them beautifully! I bet you'll get plenty of interest when you're ready to sell some.

[danotaylor]

Really nice mate! So much treasure hidden in the SS genetics!

[Second Hand Pat]

I am sure glad you kept the nine-bar version Al. I can see the wild green influence in all of them. I can see the wild green influence in a few of the SS and it is way more evident in the nine-bar. How are you going approach breeding these?
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Steve,
Had a heck of a time shooting them.. the tanks really packed so when I use a flash from above... the fish cast shadows on the one I trying for.

Danny, thanks! There really is alot to like about snakeskin genetics.



Pat, Im going grow them to adult than start sorting the ones with traits I like together... pic the best go with and giveit a shot.I also still have the parent pair so back crossing is also an option. I could use another 10,000 gals with all the ideas I have! lol:)
al

[jeep]

There's a lot of variety there. Very nice!!

[RogueDiscus]

I looked again more slowly to enjoy. There might be some show quality in there, :) , but I'm with you on that's not the point. The variety really is interesting. You see the majority of all the different turk and SS patterns being sold now represented here. And then the wild type expression is beautiful!

Nice pairing Al!

Steve

[LizStreithorst]

Don't take them to a show. No way, no how. I see a few that I would take in a minute if they were for sale. These are fish for serious breeders.

[peewee1]

Well its been a long while for an update so I thought I would do one. Its kind of ironic that years ago when I did this cross I only kept the snakeskins to grow out because of lack of space. For years after I kicked myself as I wanted to know what the non-snakeskins F1 s from the wild green and Domestic Snakes would look like. This time around I actually kept a whole mess of them and grew them out. Please understand that these are F1 ones, one parent is wild Green, one is domestic. As such growth, pattern, and shape are all affected in the F1s. Still, given that, I am really really really happy. I have so much variety I don't think I will ever get tired! For me theres a lot of potential in this cross. I have several groups going and probably 2/3 of all the tank space here is this cross right now.

Anyway, no these aren't show fish, They aren't meant to be. Im not much interested in that stuff really. They are future breeding stock...My current projects stock...Hope you enjoy them.
al

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Al, I found photo 2 interesting in that I have a Striped Alenquer cross that looks very much like those two in the photo. It makes me wonder what the Alqnquer was crossed with. He is now paired with a Blue Scorpion, both have only spawned once so far. I like your direction here. I too have interest in wild blends. Good job on both the fish and the photos.

[brewmaster15]

Al, I found photo 2 interesting in that I have a Striped Alenquer cross that looks very much like those two in the photo. It makes me wonder what the Alqnquer was crossed with. He is now paired with a Blue Scorpion, both have only spawned once so far. I like your direction here. I too have interest in wild blends. Good job on both the fish and the photos.

Thank you! I hope that you can post some pics of any fry you get. If theres one thing I wish I had here now for stock is Blue scorpions...my snakes are all fine line, but in the various breedings here I have some coming up with a more scorpion pattern...so we shall see,

al

[brewmaster15]

I looked again more slowly to enjoy. There might be some show quality in there, :) , but I'm with you on that's not the point. The variety really is interesting. You see the majority of all the different turk and SS patterns being sold now represented here. And then the wild type expression is beautiful!

Nice pairing Al!

Steve

Thanks Steve, I'm guessing that you probably realize the female snakeskin in the pair is from that group of fry I got from you a few years back? Shes given me at least 6 spawns with the wild green so far, maybe more.

al

[JamesW]

Oh to have tank space and time. I'd love to grow out a batch of these bad boys.

[brewmaster15]

Seeing on how its been a lonnngggg while since I updated and I promised Pat I would...

These are my F1 wild Green X Blue snakeskins


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975971642_3209589147_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cVeu)IMGP1891 (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cVeu)



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975193223_d0775e67c0_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j98VQt)IMGP1887 (https://flic.kr/p/2j98VQt)



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975973097_30164e02a9_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cVEz)IMGP1883 (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cVEz)



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975194618_bd25f7e6e2_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j98Wfw)IMGP1874 (https://flic.kr/p/2j98Wfw)



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975195053_10b1e36695_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j98Wo2)IMGP1872 (https://flic.kr/p/2j98Wo2)


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49975974382_7baf6a1491_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cW3J)IMGP1834 (https://flic.kr/p/2j9cW3J)


I would be glad to hear your opinions on these. I am thrilled with them so far and looking forward to my F2s... I I have 2 very distinct forms to work with now.

Al

[peewee1]

They are both unique looking and beautiful. Were all of the fry a blending of the two parents or were there three versions of fry? Meaning those shown and some that looked like the blue and some that looked like the green? Those would be called throwbacks?

[Gillmann]

Beautiful fish! And I love the clarity of your pictures as well! thanks for sharing, Al.

[danotaylor]

Really nice mate...color, patterns and shape all very nice...I particularly like the sea green sheen and the black halo...I would like to raise some of these at some point in the future sometime if you have more. Good work mate :thumbsup:

[brewmaster15]

They are both unique looking and beautiful. Were all of the fry a blending of the two parents or were there three versions of fry? Meaning those shown and some that looked like the blue and some that looked like the green? Those would be called throwbacks?

THANK YOU! This cross has some variability as fry but as they grow the pretty much turn into one of two forms.. Theres the one thats superficially remembles the wild green but with more pattern and some snakeskin details.. The other is a really shiny bright blue/greenish turquoise. When I did this cross years ago I didnt keep any of the turqs for lack of space... my goal was the snakeskins.. This time around it was both groups..and I am really glad I kept them. Ive got plans to work with each group now...alls I need is time.

Al

[brewmaster15]

Beautiful fish! And I love the clarity of your pictures as well! thanks for sharing, Al.
Thanks Gerald! For the pics.... I place the flash above the tank and either bounce it off the ceiling or direct it through some paper towels to diffuse it.

AL

[brewmaster15]

Really nice mate...color, patterns and shape all very nice...I particularly like the sea green sheen and the black halo...I would like to raise some of these at some point in the future sometime if you have more. Good work mate :thumbsup:

Thanks Danny, If all goes as planned I hope have many more and would love to see some swimming in your tank!

AL

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, these are beautiful and l like both forms. My initial thought was the color from the wild green parent is very apparent in the fry and you confirmed that. I like these very much and the color makes them very special.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

They are really beautiful, Al.

[brewmaster15]

Al, these are beautiful and l like both forms. My initial thought was the color from the wild green parent is very apparent in the fry and you confirmed that. I like these very much and the color makes them very special.
Pat

Thanks Pat! I am very happy with them so far. I had hoped to get that color influence on the F1 's and am really thrilled to see it.




They are really beautiful, Al.
Thanks Liz!


al

[peewee1]

THANK YOU! This cross has some variability as fry but as they grow the pretty much turn into one of two forms.. Theres the one thats superficially remembles the wild green but with more pattern and some snakeskin details.. The other is a really shiny bright blue/greenish turquoise. When I did this cross years ago I didnt keep any of the turqs for lack of space... my goal was the snakeskins.. This time around it was both groups..and I am really glad I kept them. Ive got plans to work with each group now...alls I need is time.

Al

I notice photo 2 and photo 3 and photo 5. Fish 2 is that a temporary Heckel bar? Fish three the black halo.Fish 5 seems to have a greenish tinge. Those 3 fish possess three of the four attributes that I have started working on in my rejuvenated attempt at breeding.

[brewmaster15]

I notice photo 2 and photo 3 and photo 5. Fish 2 is that a temporary Heckel bar? Fish three the black halo.Fish 5 seems to have a greenish tinge. Those 3 fish possess three of the four attributes that I have started working on in my rejuvenated attempt at breeding.

Those bars are temporary, Thats the "this guy did a water change, messed with our tank, and is taking pictures with flash without my Permission, all while I am hungry and craving FDBWs" Look:)

The Black Halos fade in and out on some of them...



Fish 5 seems to have a greenish tinge Fish 5 is one of my Favorites in the tank. Its strongly influenced by snakeskin but has alot of the wild Green Dad in it., it has a more wild look. That is something I was really hoping for.


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al

[above design]

Wow!! Really like them Al!! Really cool looking!

-Mark

[brewmaster15]

Wow!! Really like them Al!! Really cool looking!

-Mark

Thanks Mark! I'm pretty happy as well with them!
al

[Larry208]

Beautiful discus Al, love the greenish / blueish sheen found in the pictures. Can`t wait to see how these and the next ones turn out.
If you find your running out of room, :p , let me know I have plenty of space in mine. lol.

Hope you and yours are doing well.

[peewee1]

Beautiful discus Al, love the greenish / blueish sheen found in the pictures. Can`t wait to see how these and the next ones turn out.
If you find your running out of room, :p , let me know I have plenty of space in mine. lol.

Hope you and yours are doing well.

I will make the prediction hear and now, Larry. One day Al will become known world famous for his green/brown sheen discus. Get 'em now while they are hot! Sabetta Green/Brown Snakeskin. Or SGBSS.

[Larry208]

I will make the prediction hear and now, Larry. One day Al will become known world famous for his green/brown sheen discus. Get 'em now while they are hot! Sabetta Green/Brown Snakeskin. Or SGBSS.

He sure will be, I got my first discus from Al back when I started out, I believe they were a snakeskin / colbalt cross.

[Cosgrovb]

The SS is uniquely perfect. Great work Al.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks guys! Im just enjoying learning aa much as I can about these beautiful flat fish !


Beautiful discus Al, love the greenish / blueish sheen found in the pictures. Can`t wait to see how these and the next ones turn out.
If you find your running out of room, , let me know I have plenty of space in mine. lol.

Hope you and yours are doing well.

Larry been a very long time! Im doing well here and hope the same for you.I remember when you came over.. my fishroom was a heck of alot different then! Thanks for the kind words on the fish... hope to have another a northeast meeting again once this covid stuff passes.

Al

[brewmaster15]

The SS is uniquely perfect. Great work Al.
Thank you!
Al

[dmun24]

looking great dennis