having trouble with anubias deficiencies

[matt2426]

hi everyone im having some issues with my anubias plants i fertilize with the pps plan from green leaf aquariums been doing there plan for about a month now i do water changes 50 percent 5 times a week i was having the same deficiencies before the ferts but now i get better growth but still yellow leaves pin holes etc. this is the lights im using i have two fixtures on my 125 gallon tank. http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/aquarium-lighting/edge-led-36-inch-fixture.html . I currently have the lights on for 8 hours a day.im pretty new to planted tanks i get growth but i also get some kind of deficienties here are some pictures of the plant do you think i need to add more nitrate or potassium to the fertilizer here are some pics would appreciate any kind of tips i could try thanks118764118765118766118767118768118769

[dagray]

Anubias don't like their roots buried. tie the anubias to the driftwood with the roots in the water. The only anubias I have with roots buried is in a 20 gallon tank with reverse flow undergravel filtration, but before doing reverse flow that anubias was just struggling, and now it is thriving.

In my 75 gallon I have an Anubias that started small in a split in my Manzanita root, and now it goes almost across the tank.

I use Flourish Excel for fertilizer.

[matt2426]

Anubias don't like their roots buried. tie the anubias to the driftwood with the roots in the water. The only anubias I have with roots buried is in a 20 gallon tank with reverse flow undergravel filtration, but before doing reverse flow that anubias was just struggling, and now it is thriving.

In my 75 gallon I have an Anubias that started small in a split in my Manzanita root, and now it goes almost across the tank.

I use Flourish Excel for fertilizer.

there roots aren't buried i have the rhizome glued on the driftwood but thanks

[Filip]

Very nice looking tank Matt . I notice on the picture that anubias in the upper half of the tank don't express yellowing and pinholes .Could it be that those laying on the ground are too shaded ?

[matt2426]

Very nice looking tank Matt . I notice on the picture that anubias in the upper half of the tank don't express yellowing and pinholes .Could it be that those laying on the ground are too shaded ?

you think that may be the problem some are getting too much light

[Paul Sabucchi]

Generally this kind of problem is due to a relative lack of nitrogen. Probably your 5 weekly 50% WC are doing your fish good but the plants not so much. With aquarium plans (like any plant) the ammount of light they receive dictates the level of their metabolism. A plant has no choice but to photosynthesize according to the available light, in order to do this though it needs a corresponding ammount of CO2, macro and micro-nutrients; if these are insufficient then the plant starts to perish. The nutrient that is relatively more scarce will become the limiting factor to growth (Liebig's law)

[danotaylor]

I agree with Paul. I was a hydroponics system specialist for an indoor farm and yellowing of the foliage is almost always associated with nitrogen deficiency. The other relevant factor is pH. Once pH gets above 7.5, even the available nutrients are locked out and the roots cannot take them up. What is you pH? I think it would be counter productive to add nitrate to your fertilizer when it is made available through the biological filtration of your filter. I am no discus expert by any means, but I gather from what I have read here that adult discus do not need the same level of water changes as growing juveniles. Your fish seem to be in the 5" range from your pics, putting them past the need for multiple weekly changes (though that is still good for them). Perhaps cut 2 of your 5 out and see if that changes anything. The flip side though is your plants aren't getting what they need. The age old challenge of finding the balance when having a planted discus tank, lol.

[bluelagoon]

Ph is a factor indeed.

[JamesW]

If you are doing 5 x 50% WC/week how much of the PPS are you dosing? For the entire tank or 1.5 - 2 x of the tank volume?

[bluelagoon]

Not sure what pps plan means but the EI dosing is good way to dose tanks with adult discus.You can find calculators on lone.I had some great success with that method.Altho my tanks were stem and root plants mostly.

[Adam S]

I think the plants are getting too much light. Nitrogen deficiency tends to affect whole, old leaves first, whereas your plants have pretty consistent yellowing on the tips.

[danotaylor]

I think the plants are getting too much light. Nitrogen deficiency tends to affect whole, old leaves first, whereas your plants have pretty consistent yellowing on the tips.

Adam it seems from the pics that the plants in the lower water column are the ones turning yellow, rather than the ones closer to the light source. IME in indoor farming under LED lighting (basil, tomatoes, bib lettuce & micro-greens for those wondering :p), the yellowing usually started on the leaf tips/edges and progressed back towards the stem because the available nitrogen was all used up by the time the sap reached the leaf tip/edge. That may not be the case with aquatic plants of course. When I had anubias what you described was for sure the case in my tank with the older whole leaves dying off 1st. My issue though was with pH and subsequent nutrient lock out cause in my african tank with aragonite substrate the water was 8-8.2...it would be interesting to discover what Matt's pH is in Michigan, and his aging routine, cause where we were in NW Ohio at the time the pH of the tap water was close to 8 anyway, much like SE Mi...

[matt2426]

[QUOTE=danotaylor;1299852]I agree with Paul. I was a hydroponics system specialist for an indoor farm and yellowing of the foliage is almost always associated with nitrogen deficiency. The other relevant factor is pH. Once pH gets above 7.5, even the available nutrients are locked out and the roots cannot take them up. What is you pH? I think it would be counter productive to add nitrate to your fertilizer when it is made available through the biological filtration of your filter. I am no discus expert by any means, but I gather from what I have read here that adult discus do not need the same level of water changes as growing juveniles. Your fish seem to be in the 5" range from your pics, putting them past the need for multiple weekly changes (though that is still good for them). Perhaps cut 2 of your 5 out and see if that changes anything. The flip side though is your plants aren't getting what they need. The age old challenge of finding the balance when having a planted discus tank, lol.[/QUOT

my ph is at 8.0 seems like maybe thats going to be a problem with keeping a planted tank and i dose nitrate in my dry fertilizer the recommended dose that the systems calls for maybe i need to up the dose more but thanks for the reply

[matt2426]

Not sure what pps plan means but the EI dosing is good way to dose tanks with adult discus.You can find calculators on lone.I had some great success with that method.Altho my tanks were stem and root plants mostly.

http://greenleafaquariums.com/glanews/gla-ppspro-aquarium-fertilizer-package-mix-dosing-instruction/ this is the pps plan i dose it everyday like it says to but thanks

[matt2426]

Generally this kind of problem is due to a relative lack of nitrogen. Probably your 5 weekly 50% WC are doing your fish good but the plants not so much. With aquarium plans (like any plant) the ammount of light they receive dictates the level of their metabolism. A plant has no choice but to photosynthesize according to the available light, in order to do this though it needs a corresponding ammount of CO2, macro and micro-nutrients; if these are insufficient then the plant starts to perish. The nutrient that is relatively more scarce will become the limiting factor to growth (Liebig's law)

ok thanks for the reply i was thinking these anubias were going to be easy but with discus and all the water changes its a challenge keeping them healthy

[matt2426]

Adam it seems from the pics that the plants in the lower water column are the ones turning yellow, rather than the ones closer to the light source. IME in indoor farming under LED lighting (basil, tomatoes, bib lettuce & micro-greens for those wondering :p), the yellowing usually started on the leaf tips/edges and progressed back towards the stem because the available nitrogen was all used up by the time the sap reached the leaf tip/edge. That may not be the case with aquatic plants of course. When I had anubias what you described was for sure the case in my tank with the older whole leaves dying off 1st. My issue though was with pH and subsequent nutrient lock out cause in my african tank with aragonite substrate the water was 8-8.2...it would be interesting to discover what Matt's pH is in Michigan, and his aging routine, cause where we were in NW Ohio at the time the pH of the tap water was close to 8 anyway, much like SE Mi...

ph is 8 i the way i age water is just an air pump with an air stone and heater age for 24hrs but seems like the high ph is going to be a challenge with keeping plants healthy

[matt2426]

If you are doing 5 x 50% WC/week how much of the PPS are you dosing? For the entire tank or 1.5 - 2 x of the tank volume?

i dose 12.5 ml of macros and 6.5 ml of micros of my 125 gallon tank daily do i need to dose more?

[bluelagoon]

Most plants thrive between PH 5.5- 7.If ph is too high or too low plants cannot absorb nutrients properly.There are far less plants in the rift lakes of African due to high ph and hardness,but not void of some tough plants along the shores.

[danotaylor]

ph is 8 i the way i age water is just an air pump with an air stone and heater age for 24hrs but seems like the high ph is going to be a challenge with keeping plants healthy
Yea Matt, pH of 8 will make it almost impossible unfortunately. I had the same issue in Toledo with some beautiful anubias I had that came out of a fully planted tank from a friend who moved out of town. His pH was low 7's, but my tank had aragonite which buffers water to 8-8.2 for my tropheus. Over a period of 6-8 my anubias did exactly what you're describing and i eventually pulled it out and gave it to someone else cause it looked awful. Vallisneria (val) does better in higher pH's but is a substrate rooting plant. If your discus are happy at pH 8 I wouldn't try to lower it if it were me as they're the center piece of you display, which looks awesome by the way. All the best mate

[matt2426]

Yea Matt, pH of 8 will make it almost impossible unfortunately. I had the same issue in Toledo with some beautiful anubias I had that came out of a fully planted tank from a friend who moved out of town. His pH was low 7's, but my tank had aragonite which buffers water to 8-8.2 for my tropheus. Over a period of 6-8 my anubias did exactly what you're describing and i eventually pulled it out and gave it to someone else cause it looked awful. Vallisneria (val) does better in higher pH's but is a substrate rooting plant. If your discus are happy at pH 8 I wouldn't try to lower it if it were me as they're the center piece of you display, which looks awesome by the way. All the best mate

ya my discus are doing great so i really don't want to mess with the levels but thanks for the help looks like i may have to pull them at some point i liked the look of the planted discus tank it still looked good without the plants but i think the plants topped the tank off oh well

[Paul Sabucchi]

I would not give up all hope yet, I have Anubia in 5 of my (non discus) tanks. Although my KH is low (about 3) pH is 7.5 and although not as much as the discus tank I do change a fair bit of water and only dose micros. By using a moderate ammount of light and giving the plants kind of time to adapt like find their balance in the tank eventually the plants have turned out looking half decent

[matt2426]

Most plants thrive between PH 5.5- 7.If ph is too high or too low plants cannot absorb nutrients properly.There are far less plants in the rift lakes of African due to high ph and hardness,but not void of some tough plants along the shores.

ok thanks it seems like the anubias coffeefolia and the anubias bateri get hit the hardest as far as yellowing and leaves dying off the nanas don't seem like they get too much yellowing for whatever reason all the plants grow at a pretty steady rate but doesn't seem like they will flourish like they should with that high ph but thanks again for the reply

[matt2426]

I would not give up all hope yet, I have Anubia in 5 of my (non discus) tanks. Although my KH is low (about 3) pH is 7.5 and although not as much as the discus tank I do change a fair bit of water and only dose micros. By using a moderate ammount of light and giving the plants kind of time to adapt like find their balance in the tank eventually the plants have turned out looking half decent

ya i want to get this figured out i really like the look of the planted tank its seems like the nanas do the best for whatever reason but some of the anubias strains are having alot worse deficiencys i may try to up the nitrate next time i make a batch of dry ferts i may add a little more nitrates to the bottle see if that may do anything

[Paul Sabucchi]

I would not give up all hope yet, I have Anubia in 5 of my (non discus) tanks. Although my KH is low (about 3) pH is 7.5 and although not as much as the discus tank I do change a fair bit of water and only dose micros. By using a moderate ammount of light and giving the plants kind of time to adapt like find their balance in the tank eventually the plants have turned out looking half decent

As you can see from the photo, plants including coffeifolia grow just fine but bear in mind the light in that tank is usually much more subdued, added a stronger one just to take the photo, as mentioned no CO2. Counterintuitively CO2 may be magnifying the lack of other nutrients. In a nutshell you have plenty of light and plenty of carbon, so you have plenty of fuel and spark for the plant's engine (the Calvin cycle) that because of this is revving pretty high. On the other hand other necessary things (like oil or coolant) may not be equally abundant so you have a problem

[matt2426]

As you can see from the photo, plants including coffeifolia grow just fine but bear in mind the light in that tank is usually much more subdued, added a stronger one just to take the photo, as mentioned no CO2. Counterintuitively CO2 may be magnifying the lack of other nutrients. In a nutshell you have plenty of light and plenty of carbon, so you have plenty of fuel and spark for the plant's engine (the Calvin cycle) that because of this is revving pretty high. On the other hand other necessary things (like oil or coolant) may not be equally abundant so you have a problem

nice looking tank wonder if i have to strong of lights that throwing everything off maybe thats why some of the plants are doing ok and the others not so much have to do trial and error i guess thanks Paul

[Filip]

ok thanks for the reply i was thinking these anubias were going to be easy but with discus and all the water changes its a challenge keeping them healthy

Matt, from my experience , i have found that anubias are not the easiest plants to keep them thriving , especially in a sterile discus tank . They always slowly die off or are struggling to survive in my planted discus tank.
On the other hand they always thrived In my overcrowded and not well maintained non discus tanks.
So don't beat your self up too much about not having success with them in your discus tank because it is not at all an easy task .

Raise the fertilizer graddualy in a course of 2 weeks to a double , or maybe even triple dose of your recommended PPS dosing regime and they should do better.
Meanwhile check your lights and their strength . For Anubias you should aim at 0.3-0.5 watts per liter of water or 25 -40 Lumens per liter of water .

Don't take them out if you really like their looks and don't loose hope .

[matt2426]

Matt, from my experience , i have found that anubias are not the easiest plants to keep them thriving , especially in a sterile discus tank . They always slowly die off or are struggling to survive in my planted discus tank.
On the other hand they always thrived In my overcrowded and not well maintained non discus tanks.
So don't beat your self up too much about not having success with them in your discus tank because it is not at all an easy task .

Raise the fertilizer graddualy in a course of 2 weeks to a double , or maybe even triple dose of your recommended PPS dosing regime and they should do better.
Meanwhile check your lights and their strength . For Anubias you should aim at 0.3-0.5 watts per liter of water or 25 -40 Lumens per liter of water .

Don't take them out if you really like their looks and don't loose hope .

Ok thanks Filip ill give that a try im going to start slowing upping the dose to see if that helps. the plants don't look horrible theres just a few plants that look bad but it seems like the plants that don't get alot of shade are the ones dying off the rest seem to be doing ok but thanks for the encouragment i'm going to keep trying is there an easier plant that might work better in discus tanks that may be worth trying thanks

[Filip]

Ok thanks Filip ill give that a try im going to start slowing upping the dose to see if that helps. the plants don't look horrible theres just a few plants that look bad but it seems like the plants that don't get alot of shade are the ones dying off the rest seem to be doing ok but thanks for the encouragment i'm going to keep trying is there an easier plant that might work better in discus tanks that may be worth trying thanks

I do fairly well in my tank with :

Hygrophila corymbosa or hygrophila polysperma ,
Nymphoides Hydrophilla - Taiwan ,
Ceratopteris Thalicroides or Ceratopteris cornuta ,
Echinodorus amazonicus or Echinodorus Ozelot ,
Sagitaria sibulata ,
Cryptocoryna usteriana or cryptocoryna wendtii,
Rotalla rotundofolia etc...

My water has Malawi lake hardness of 330 TDS , GH/ KH of 20 Dgh , pH 8.2 with 86 F temp. and I do not dose anything for this plants . I do have a fairly strong light source though - 162 Watts of T5 HO tubes with reflectors above only 65 gallons tank .

HTH Matt .