My Sump is looking empty !!

[MickO'S]

Hey guys,

I have a sump on my aquarium 180 Gallon or so, I have a filter sock and about 12 liters of jbl micromec and cintomec. That leaves 1 and 3/4 sections free.

I have a uv filter, purigen reactor aquaponics pothos growing out in the sump and an algea scrubber.

Any other usefull pieces of equipment or media I could add to make the system better or more stable.

Mick

[Paul Sabucchi]

I'd consider getting some Biohome Ultra. I got some Ultra Mini in one of my other filters, once the fiscus are fully grown and I start reducing the water changes I'll start swapping the current media (ceramic rings and alfagrog) for some of the big biohome

[MickO'S]

How have you found it ? It’s one of the media I’ve been looking at but I’m suspicious of anything sold that hard but I do like pondguru channel.
Does it sort nitrate as it says in the adds ??

Mick

[Paul Sabucchi]

As mentioned I got some a few years ago for my 250 liter community tank, mainly just to give it a try. Just got enough to fill one of the 4 big trays in the Jebao 304. I would say it is good quality media. Difficult to judge how effective it is at removing nitrates, as I have nothing to compare it to and also have a lot of plants in the tank. Probably for another year or so I will continue to do daily water changes in my discus tank so nitrates are not a concern. After then I will gradually scale back to maybe twice a week. I will then give it a few weeks to see where the nitrates are then start swapping the media. Apparently it takes 5-6 months for the de-nitrifying bacteria to get established. I should then be able to compare the readings with the old media to the ones with the Biohome. A Brit I follow on youtube has been trying them out on his discus tank and has done a resonably thorough year long trial, initially he had no skin in the game but now he is starting to sell Biohome so his impartiality may be a bit questionable. Might ask the chap how much he charges, internatiinal shipping from the Pondguru was quite steep
https://youtu.be/o-X-zsx8LkM

[slicksta]

I'd keep it as simple as possible. The more complicated, the more work and the more that can go wrong.
I've tried most of the options and now all I have in my sumps is some floss, reticulated sponge and bio_balls and my fish and I have never been happier.

[slicksta]

I do not think it possible to get anaerobic bacteria to grow in the same filter as aerobic as the conditions for a colony are so drastically different.
The person in the video seems nice enough and mentions several times that his analysis is not done scientifically and in that I fully agree.
And in my opinion the use of a planted tank in the experiment nullifies any conclusion.
Quite a few years back I experimented with an anaerobic reactor filter and it took about 6 months to get bacteria to develop and remove nitrate from the water. Problem is that the flow rate needs to be so slow that it is not practical. And at that flow rate you would probably need a filter twice the size of your tank to be useful in any way. Also keep in mind that the introduction of any oxygen into the filter will have you starting from scratch again.

[Filip]

I would fill it up with bio media (rings , bioballs) etc.
More bio media can never hurt and keeps the system more stable .

[JamesW]

I'm a big fan of pond matrix and poret foam.

I gotta disagree with slicksta with respect to aerobic vs. anaerobic bacteria not being able to exist in the same filter though how effective the denitrifying bacteria are I can't say.

Biofilms are a wonderful thing so I'd try and find a media that doesn't need to be clean or is self cleaning. With horizontal flow through my poret foam sump, the pump side ends up being filled with a fine mulm which I remove each water change. I have 9" total thickness of poret foam and haven't cleaned it in over 6 months with no visible drop in water level across the foam.

[slicksta]

I'm a big fan of pond matrix and poret foam.

I gotta disagree with slicksta with respect to aerobic vs. anaerobic bacteria not being able to exist in the same filter though how effective the denitrifying bacteria are I can't say.

Biofilms are a wonderful thing so I'd try and find a media that doesn't need to be clean or is self cleaning. With horizontal flow through my poret foam sump, the pump side ends up being filled with a fine mulm which I remove each water change. I have 9" total thickness of poret foam and haven't cleaned it in over 6 months with no visible drop in water level across the foam.

Well unless the aerobic bacteria are wearing spacesuits I don't see how.
And by chance if there is a micro colony of anaerobic bacteria in the center of some so called miracle media, I can pretty much guarantee that the water flows past them is so minute that there effectiveness is 0%

[Cove Beach]

I also have a 180 gal sump running horizontal. First chamber contains 100micron sock, a large air stone, PH probe and temp probe and 9" of Poret foam. My center chamber houses a Purigen reactor and Ehiem pump for same, another air stone and a sponge filter for any hospital tank duties, and another 3"of Poret Foam. Last chamber is home to 4 heaters and my Tunze Osmolator and a big bulkhead for my Reeflo return pump. I get very little detritus in the sump due to the sock on the input. The Poret is remaining very clean also. The Purigen is a new addition that is sucking up all the tannins from my driftwood in the display and giving the display the clarity i am looking for. The compartments are divided by partitions that are perforated with 1 1/4" holes to promote the horizontal flow except for the last one which is solid and sets and maintains water level for the heaters during water changes. I had a 220 gal full reef with all the bells and whistles for 15 yrs and i am not in a hurry to create that kind of complexity with this tank. I have ten 5"-6.5" fish in the display with 3 pairs laying eggs, often two at a time. My guess is what i have in the sump is working.

[JamesW]

Well unless the aerobic bacteria are wearing spacesuits I don't see how.
And by chance if there is a micro colony of anaerobic bacteria in the center of some so called miracle media, I can pretty much guarantee that the water flows past them is so minute that there effectiveness is 0%

It is a microscopic version of the anaerobic filter reactor you made. Did you rigorously deoxygenate the water before it entered your filter? I don't know the design but I think it is likely that in the flow path aerobic bacteria use the available oxygen then once the oxygen is consumed the anaerobic bacteria grow. The same thing happens inside porous media especially in media that facilitate the formation of biofilms. You can get anaerobic bacterial infections in lungs by virtue of complex biofilms.

[Mr.BigBlock]

Just through personal observation, I have noticed a drop in nitrates using the Biohome ultra, BUT it does require a substantial amount before you start noticing a change in the nitrate levels...and a good amount of time of course.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Also I believe the de-nitrifying bacteria are FACULTATIVE anaerobes, so they would not die or transform into resistance forms (spores) if they came into contact with a bit more oxygen but simply switch metabolic pathway

[MickO'S]

Thanks for all the reply's guys,

Thats great info and help.
I've ordered 2 kgs of the biohome that youtuber you suggested Paul, Cheaper than pondguru and no postal costs so worked out great. So thats a great start.

I Have added Poret foam to the sump as well.

I'm adding a clarisea sk-500 so hopefully the poret wont get to messed with food and particulate matter.

I have a 40 watt d-d uv filter with it own 2000 watt pump feeding it, this is the exact flow the unit is rated for so should work at peak performance.

The purigen is in a reactor and working away happily.

Hopefully this will be sufficient along with my auto-water change system.

Seriously thanks for the useful discussion here ! the amount of useful information by everyone who participates in these threads make the hobby accessible to all who are up for a bit of reading. So much of the great info comes from the disagreements in the technical info and actual personal experiences in the of actual keepers rather than the advertising of sellers looking to make a profit. (which is great too because without them we would not have the equipment or the fish)

Anyway heres to the future and my fish arriving

Mick

[Paul Sabucchi]

Cool, which Biohome did you order in the end?

[MickO'S]

2kgs of the biohome ultimate, I have no idea if it’s enough to ultimately have a significant affect on the nitrates but between that the water changes and the pothos aquaponics it should make a difference!

Mick

[Paul Sabucchi]

Keep us posted! By the time mine are fully grow, then given it a few months to see how the traditional media performs then another 6 months before the Biohome is "ripe" it will be about 2 years before I have any figures to compare

[MickO'S]

Will do Paul, I'll keep it loged in the tank journal thread :)

[slicksta]

Good going MickO'S
The more bio media the better! ;-)

But I still don't think that you can achieve any reduction in nitrates, especially using a single filter. Flow rates and oxygen levels required are just too far apart and the amount of media needed is just too great to be useful in any way.
And though some de-nitrifying bacteria are faculative, the efficient strains are not and more applicable in a salt water application.
The sales pitch of the biohome media sounds good and may (and more likely not) produce a negligible result in a laboratory, but good luck with it in the real world.
For those claiming it does. Are you doing a truly scientific experiment? Are you keeping your bioload steady throughout the year? feeding exact amounts? water changes in exact amounts on a regular schedule? Or is it more wishful thinking after having spent so much money on the biohome media?
I'd be interested in knowing how much media it takes to see any perceived results and how you keep the flow rate optimal over time.

[MickO'S]

Hey silicksta,
Thanks for all the input on the thread ! I'm also very skeptical of all products new and wondrous that claim miracles, ................................. BUT hahahaha on this build I have bought into every single one of them and am giving them a whirl !!!! the tech and $$$$ I have thrown at this build is just silly !!! but most importantly I'm loving every bit of it !! It's as automated as I can make it without taking over from the daily feeds and wipedowns.
What I'm aiming for is extreme consistency ! lets see how it works, all the biological media will help I hope !!

Thanks again for all the input on all the rooms I'm asking all my questions in

Mick

[slicksta]

Good on you Mick!
I too have a lot of tech on my setup from automatic drip and drain to various water sensors that monitor sump and overflow levels and possible leaks... all tied to a notification system and motor driven valves. Even my overflows are set up in an unconventional manner.
And I agree that it's worth the cost just to experiment, learn and keep your mind exercised.
I'm currently in the process of building my own heater control panel :-)
That said, I've also learned to keep it as simple as possible and that most of the new stuff out there rarely outperform the tried and true methods.
Good luck, keep it up... and keep us posted on your progress.