Algae or Cyno?

[Branch]

Hi guys, it's been a while as no news is usually good news with the tank thriving up until it was impossible in the UK to get C02! I am currently experiencing alot of green as despite daily water changes and vacuuming the gravel substrate is coated in a green film within 24 hours and the plants, swords, anubias, and Java are getting a green layer relatively quickly. Water conditions are fine .5ppm N03 and no other changes in the tank. Could this be due to a lack of C02 or an excess of light, there are 2 LED strips which again haven't changed. Any help would be greatly appreciated. B

[LizStreithorst]

Why not get a group of Bristle Nose Pleco's. They do a great job. Also you might try lowering the intensity or duration of the light and see how the plants react.

[Paul Sabucchi]

If it is cyanobacteria nothing will eat them though. Can you post some photos?

[fljones3]

What's the phosphate levels? IME, high phosphate levels encourage algae.

[bluelagoon]

If it is a recent set up,it is common for a tank in the early stages especially if you have a silica based substrate.Three days of black out will get rid of it(cover the tank with a blanket).I had a break out this summer but I think that was due to a warm tank with extra light.Erythromycin will also work but is not needed if you black out the tank.The darkness will kill the algae the are inside the bacteria the feeds it.You will never forget the smell of the stuff.Do you have a bad smell in the tank?

[Branch]

Thanks guys, I'll address your points in reverse order. The tank has been running since 2007 and although the lighting was upgraded to LEDs earlier in the year everything was working relatively well whilst I was injecting C02, albeit I did suffer from green water there as well for a time which was dealt with by reducing the lighting period. P04 hasn't been checked but given that nothing in my regimen has changed and the N03 is 5ppm then I wouldn't have considered this as being the problem. The film that appears over the gravel is a slick dark green but I did notice today when carrying out the daily vacuum that the water had a green tinge to it? Perhaps reducing the lighting period to say 5 hours a day may help? they're on for 7 at the moment. B

[Paul Sabucchi]

Dark green (particularly if sludgy) sounds more like cyanobacteria to me, please post pictures

[sanjay21]

My LFS guy is pretty knowledgeable on planted tanks and he has posters on types of algae and how to treat them here is something on blue green algae-
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[bluelagoon]

Smell it!!!!!!That's all you need to do to find whether it is cynano or not.

[Branch]

From that picture it looks like blue green algae, plus the water has a green tint to it when I syphon the tank daily. No smell in the tank as far as I can assess. B

[gotwins86]

I have used Blue Green Slime Stain Remover in a planted tank before to get rid of cyno. Didn't affect plants or fish.
Not sure how it would effect discus. I'll let others chime in if they would recommend to use it with discus or not.

[Branch]

Just a thought, would the lack of water movement in the tank cause the onset of such a bloom, or cyno? The reason I ask is that the filter, which I've just cleaned thoroughly had a blockage which over the past couple of weeks had reduced the water flow from the spray jets to a trickle? B

[Paul Sabucchi]

Definitely sluggish water favours the bloom of cyanobacteria.

[Branch]

Thanks Paul will be monitoring everything this week to try to get to the bottom of it. B

[bluelagoon]

It's been five days now.If it was me with cyano it would be gone by now.I had it this summer for a couple of days.It comes in from the air;it's every where.This is one of the most primitive life forms and will survive just about any where it can get a foot hold.Black the tank out for three days usually is all it takes along with cleaning and large WC's.Plants will go that long with no effect on them.If it don't work the first time;try it again but this time without peaking so you don't let any light in during that period.I've had this a number of times over the years and the black out method and cleaning always got rid of it.The treatment will also work for algae.

[sanjay21]

It's been five days now.If it was me with cyano it would be gone by now.I had it this summer for a couple of days.It comes in from the air;it's every where.This is one of the most primitive life forms and will survive just about any where it can get a foot hold.Black the tank out for three days usually is all it takes along with cleaning and large WC's.Plants will go that long with no effect on them.If it don't work the first time;try it again but this time without peaking so you don't let any light in during that period.I've had this a number of times over the years and the black out method and cleaning always got rid of it.The treatment will also work for algae.

+1
I do the same exact things and works all the time.

[Filip]

My past experience:
I 've covered my completly cyano infestated tank with blankets before my 4 day winter vacation and added heavy surface movement (aeration).
4 days after i got back home to a sparkling clean tank and water .

[Branch]

hi guys, nice to hear from you again Filip. Another thought, don't think it's Cyno as when I syphon the water it's green, could it be too much light? I have two large Interpet Tri Spec LED lights in the 125 gallon tank (6 hrs daily) something tells me it's a lighting issue? C02 now running again so just want to clear the water as the maintenance cleaning the glass, substrate etc is excessive! B

[Willie]

Cyanobacteria, commonly known as blue green algae, can fix nitrogen. So they use N2 in the air to produce their own ammonia. Like all plants, they can also photosynthesize. All they really need to bloom is light and phosphate in the water. If the tank is heavily planted, then phosphates are captured by the other plants. Antibiotics can be used to cure a cyanobacteria bloom.

Green algae cannot fix nitrogen. It's basically a single cell plant - so it can photosynthesize. Green algae cannot fix nitrogen, so it needs both nitrogen and phosphate to bloom. Both nitrogen and phosphate are scarce in a heavily planted tank due to competition from higher plants. Antibiotics will have no effect on green alga (or any other algae other than blue-greens).

Because the amount of phosphate needed is minimal, multiple large water changes are needed to dilute out the residual phosphate. In both cases, keeping the tank dark is the best approach. Your plants will be able to survive the lack of photosynthesis much better than algae due to their ability to store carbohydrates to sustain themselves.

Willie

[Branch]

Okay guys I'm going to, against my normal judgement, try the blacking out the tank method. How do ensure that the fish see and eat the food when the tank is dark? B

[bluelagoon]

If it is cyanobacteria nothing will eat them though. Can you post some photos?

The Siamese Algae Eater will.At list the ones I have,would.

[Branch]

Quick question; does the tank have to be completely covered or just the lights off for 4 days as the room isn't particularly well lit anyway? B

[bluelagoon]

In your case yes.This summer when I had it,it was caused by extra hot summer,light and phosphates.When it just started on the floating Frogbit plants I just did a big 80% WC and turned the lights out for 3-4 days and it worked.But in the past I let it get a bit worse and the complete black worked best with no light in the tank at all.That means no peaking.The fish will do just fine for a few days without food.This will work to reduce algae also.You can go the more dangerous route and use erythromycin but antibiotics would be my last approach.

[Branch]

Help! I did what was suggested and have come in today after only 12 hours, checked the tank, and it's completely green can't see the fish due to the cloudyness?! it was totally blacked out and now the problem is 100% worse as although the substrate was showing green deposits the water was clear now it's opaque! B

[bluelagoon]

It's a bloom,the cyano is dying off;must have been quite the build of of the stuff.Put an air stone in the tank.Did you do a large WC.If not do so and cover it back up.Do not clean the filters when you have cyano.

[Branch]

It's a bloom,the cyano is dying off;must have been quite the build of of the stuff.Put an air stone in the tank.Did you do a large WC.If not do so and cover it back up.Do not clean the filters when you have cyano.

Thanks. It didn't seem that bad but if this is the cycle of a die off then it's good right? Water change was done yesterday and I'm storing enough RO water to do a large change when the water clears. The tank is covered and I'll not touch it until the cycle is finished. Any thing else I need to consider? B

[bluelagoon]

Mine as never gotten cloudy.This type of algae seems to like it a bit acidic and doesn't seem affect fish unless oxygen gets depleted.There are many different types of cyano.Some times we cannot eat shell fish food due to the toxins in warmer conditions along the coast.Some call it "red sea".

[bluelagoon]

By the way the time starts over and the past 12 hours don't count>you have a bloom,do not feed your fish;it adds to the issue.

[Branch]

Will do, will let you know how it goes. B

[Branch]

Any idea how long the algae bloom will last? cant see anything in there today at all! B

[bluelagoon]

How did the cyano far?Black out was completed yesterday.

[Branch]

Man it was an amazing transformation I've never seen anything like it. The tank looked like new with even the leaves and glass clear of any algae. How did this happen? How did the algae vanish from every part of the tank it's beyond my wildest expectations. Was just waiting a couple of days before I responded because it looked too good to be true and I half expected to see it return within 24 hours. Need to keep it like this now don't know what caused it that's the problem.Thanks for all your help. B

[bluelagoon]

Glad it worked.That method usually works for both cyano and algae.Make sure you do a large WC after the cover is removed;there was a lot of die off in the tank.

[Jack L]

i'll have to remember the blackout method

the only way i got rid of bga before was with red slime or ultra life type chemicals.

[Branch]

Yes I did, changed 100% over two days the water is crystal clear. Thanks again best treatment advice I've had to date for actually solving the issue at hand. I knew it wasn't due to an overabundance of nutrients as P04 was <0.1ppm and N03 was <5ppm. Jack it's such a result I'd do it again without even thinking about it. B

[Jack L]

i'm wondering if it would work for the green spot on my glass

[discuspaul]

Now that the issue is resolved - you'll need to improve the water circulation within the tank to insure the cyano doesn't return.
Cyanobacteria is anaerobic which develops and survives in areas of low or non-existent oxygen levels.

You can improve oxygen levels within the tank's water (particularly near the bottom - substrate level where it generally starts) by adding a well-positioned water circulation pump, or at least an air stone, or power bar.

[bluelagoon]

i'm wondering if it would work for the green spot on my glass

You can but elbow grease would be the best bit.Usually the phosphate is too high or too low in your tank.It'll come back if you don't fix that.When I had planted tanks I would need to add phosphate to reduce the spot algae.

[Branch]

No Jack the green spots, albeit only a few, are still there the blackout doesn't clear them. Paul I have a great deal of water flow in my tank I think what happened was a blockage in the filter which slowed the water from the normally powerful spray bar hence this hadn't happened before and the set-up is 12 years old. Phosphates and Nitrates are negligible but not so low that the algae would form IMHO. B

[bluelagoon]

Algae is one of those things that will always get out of control once the you allow it.In most cases algae is just a part of a healthy environment;some folks don't mind some algae.Just unsightly to us.It's even more so with spot algae,it'll return within days and it depends on each set up,plants or not and ones water.Elbow grease is best.The 3 day black works well for beard/hair algae in the past for me too.I have done this over the years and it has always worked well for me.There are other ways to rid your tank of algae but this one will workout chemicals.

[Branch]

With all this I barely noticed that my matched pair have a brood of wrigglers hatched today on the tank glass. Not much hope in such a large tank with 10 other discus however. B