I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.

[Mando]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Started two days ago, one of my Marlboros gets really pale. the red all of a sudden becomes really pink despite my dark wall (background).


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Nothing other than turning pink. One of my heavy eaters and fastest growing fry.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Salt only. 1 tbl per 10 gallons. He only goes pale mid afternoon. although, now he is normal.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

30 gallon breeder. over a year old. has 6 discus ranging from 2"-3"

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

twice daily. 90% in the morning, and 90% late afternoons.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
a little over a year now - Bare Bottom.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes, In a 55 gallon drum.

8. Parameters and water source;


Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

Tap water - 100%

- temp __86___

- ph __7.3-7.5___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____



9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

Hikari dried black worms - once in the morning
tetra bites discus pellets + d150 pellets in auto feeder- 4 times a day while at work.
Beef heart flakes - evenings

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.


I will upload now with cell phone shortly.

[Mando]

119586119587

Him normal, and then pink. I just realized I posted in the wrong section. Can a mod please move the thread?

[Mando]

119588

This one is so you can compare with the other Marlboro in the picture. For some reason it looks less pink on the PC, but in person and cell phone, he's really pale.

[LizStreithorst]

I see it but I have no clue. I wouldn't start worrying after just 2 days as long as it's eating well. Sometimes you just meed to keep watching the fish.
Your red SS cross is stunning for it's age.

[Mando]

I see it but I have no clue. I wouldn't start worrying after just 2 days as long as it's eating well. Sometimes you just meed to keep watching the fish.
Your red SS cross is stunning for it's age.

I figured it’s nothing to worry about, but didn’t want to risk it on this batch. They are growing nicely.
I feed them almost 7 times a day, and still, they come up to me like they’ve not eaten in three days.

[danotaylor]

Sometimes suppliers uses food with color enhancers to make the fishes color pop...if you stop feeding color enhancing foods the colors fade, especially in juvenile fish...pecking order often affects colors as well...

[brewmaster15]

Mando,
Question here.



5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

twice daily. 90% in the morning, and 90% late afternoons. Do you do this religiously? If you are doing water changes like this regularly you won't have much of a biofilter. Then if you slack off or get busy and fail to do them as much or as often your tank will go into minicycles and that can actually happen pretty quick. Ammonia and Nitrate spikes can cause some fish to loose some color. The fact you mentioned it happens in the afternoon, raises a flag as thats when I would expect a spike after morning water changes, especially since this is only a 30 gal tank with 6 each 3" fish.

Thats about the only thing I can think of here.. I would suggest monitoring your ammonia and Nitrite just incase.

hth,
al

[Mando]

Mando,
Question here.

Do you do this religiously? If you are doing water changes like this regularly you won't have much of a biofilter. Then if you slack off or get busy and fail to do them as much or as often your tank will go into minicycles and that can actually happen pretty quick. Ammonia and Nitrate spikes can cause some fish to loose some color. The fact you mentioned it happens in the afternoon, raises a flag as thats when I would expect a spike after morning water changes, especially since this is only a 30 gal tank with 6 each 3" fish.

Thats about the only thing I can think of here.. I would suggest monitoring your ammonia and Nitrite just incase.

hth,
al

Good observation! Will do so. When do you suggest going into a bigger tank? Also, I have the main tank divided in two since the males were fighting. Maybe I can swap them? However, I believe this week only marks the 3rd week with them. I wanted a 6 week qt.

I keep the bottom of the tank super clean. I will check Ammonia first thing when I get home from work. If that’s the case, I’ll either lessen the water changes or reduce the feedings.

Even with two aged sponges, I can see mini cycles? I have yet to miss a water change. It’s been religiously; every morning, and every afternoon before classes.

[Mando]

I forgot to mention, last time he lightened after a water change. He still eats like a beast despite the lighter color and he is catching up to what was sold to me as an alanquer in size.

[brewmaster15]

It doesn't matter how aged the filters were, with huge water changes theres little food for the bacteria so they die back to a point where theres enough food. I'm not saying this has happened in your tank just that its a possibility in your situation. The tank is ok for Qt with Good water changes just stay on them as you are. Definitely don't cut the QT short.

al

[Mando]

It doesn't matter how aged the filters were, with huge water changes theres little food for the bacteria so they die back to a point where theres enough food. I'm not saying this has happened in your tank just that its a possibility in your situation. The tank is ok for Qt with Good water changes just stay on them as you are. Definitely don't cut the QT short.

al

I feel like I need to be paying for your advice! Thank for all that you do.

[slicksta]

Good observation! Will do so. When do you suggest going into a bigger tank? Also, I have the main tank divided in two since the males were fighting. Maybe I can swap them? However, I believe this week only marks the 3rd week with them. I wanted a 6 week qt.

I keep the bottom of the tank super clean. I will check Ammonia first thing when I get home from work. If that’s the case, I’ll either lessen the water changes or reduce the feedings.

Even with two aged sponges, I can see mini cycles? I have yet to miss a water change. It’s been religiously; every morning, and every afternoon before classes.

All the more reason for a drip system. . . :-D

[Mando]

All the more reason for a drip system. . . :-D
Haha! I saw your DM and forgot to reply!

[Mando]

Mando,
Question here.

Do you do this religiously? If you are doing water changes like this regularly you won't have much of a biofilter. Then if you slack off or get busy and fail to do them as much or as often your tank will go into minicycles and that can actually happen pretty quick. Ammonia and Nitrate spikes can cause some fish to loose some color. The fact you mentioned it happens in the afternoon, raises a flag as thats when I would expect a spike after morning water changes, especially since this is only a 30 gal tank with 6 each 3" fish.

Thats about the only thing I can think of here.. I would suggest monitoring your ammonia and Nitrite just incase.

hth,
al

As you suspected Al, the ammonia was slightly elevated. I’ll reduce the feedings while at work from 3 to 2. Nitrite was at 0. This clearly tells me that I cannot slack on the water changes. The fish that is normally pale was nicely colored when I got home.

[LizStreithorst]

Al is a Discus genius.

[Second Hand Pat]

I feel like I need to be paying for your advice! Thank for all that you do.

Mando, you can make a donation to the forum or buy a premium membership. This is what helps to keep this place alive. :)
Pat

[Mando]

Mando, you can make a donation to the forum or buy a premium membership. This is what helps to keep this place alive. :)
Pat

You're absolutely right! @Al Can you do a subscription style donation?


Al is a Discus genius.

Indeed!

Although, slightly elevated yesterday, I'm thinking that ammonia isn't the issue. This morning he was a bit pink again so I checked the ammonia and it was 0. Regardless, I did the water change and reduced the feedings. Hopefully, this is just me being paranoid. He's grown the most and the first one to greet me at the front of the tank for food.

So in the meantime, I'll do as you suggested, Liz, and just let things go like normal with the added visual care.

[Mando]

Sometimes suppliers uses food with color enhancers to make the fishes color pop...if you stop feeding color enhancing foods the colors fade, especially in juvenile fish...pecking order often affects colors as well...

They are eating the tetra color bits, I would expect darker colors. My orange discus is literally red because of this food. But, I knida love him red.

[brewmaster15]

You're absolutely right! @Al Can you do a subscription style donation?



Indeed!

Although, slightly elevated yesterday, I'm thinking that ammonia isn't the issue. This morning he was a bit pink again so I checked the ammonia and it was 0. Regardless, I did the water change and reduced the feedings. Hopefully, this is just me being paranoid. He's grown the most and the first one to greet me at the front of the tank for food.

So in the meantime, I'll do as you suggested, Liz, and just let things go like normal with the added visual care.



Hi Mando,
If you are experiencing elevated ammonia its likely there is also or has been Nitrite spikes. Nitrites are a short term cumulative... meaning it takes the fish 24-48 hours roughly to remove the nitrites... small nitrite spikes can accumulate nitrites in the fish if the Nitrite production in the tank exceeds the clearance in the fish. I know you did test it yesterday and saw nothing for nitrites.. But I would watch that level and test it periodically over the next few days, just incase.

hth,
al

[Mando]

Hi Mando,
If you are experiencing elevated ammonia its likely there is also or has been Nitrite spikes. Nitrites are a short term cumulative... meaning it takes the fish 24-48 hours roughly to remove the nitrites... small nitrite spikes can accumulate nitrites in the fish if the Nitrite production in the tank exceeds the clearance in the fish. I know you did test it yesterday and saw nothing for nitrites.. But I would watch that level and test it periodically over the next few days, just incase.

hth,
al

Definitely, My routine from now on will be to test the waters in the mornings and afternoons. It may be time for a bigger tank if I can't control it.

[brewmaster15]

By the way....


You're absolutely right! @Al Can you do a subscription style donation? since you asked... Yes.:) and these are always appreciated!:)

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?104050


or just a simple one here....

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/misc.php?do=donate

[Mando]

Hey, Liz and Al.

Hope you had a lovely thanksgiving. I’ve noticed a sudden issue with ammonia and today I decided to test my reserve and tap water (inside and outside). The readings came back 1.0 ppm of ammonia. How is that possible? I was going to call my local water and sewera department and see if they had any changes. The maintank clears the ammonia almost instantly. But my fry tank doesn’t. It takes a few days to clear.

[LizStreithorst]

Are you using prime of safe? I don't understand about chloramines (I don't even know if I spelled it right) because my water just has chlorine. Someone will else will have to 'splain it to you, but I think that if you use prime or safe you may still get an ammonia reading but those products change it into another form that is not toxic. Don't take this as fact. I may have it all wrong.

[Mando]

I read that chloramines doesn’t remove ammonia. I have to see of my local water and sewage changed from chlorine to chloramines. This started recently and the only reason I noticed is because of my fry growout. The fish started turning a pale pink.

And,yes, I always use prime even if it’s aged water.

[Mando]

Should I lower water changes to 50% daily and just double dose prime? Maybe add prime to my aging barrel? I’m beside myself as to why my tap water changed.

[snxtif]

Just my 2 cents about water, testing and "Safe";

1. Get the report of your local water ASAP. There is a real-time updated on their official website in some area.
2. Make sure test kit is not old.
3. Test the aged water "before" putting "Safe" in.
4. Make sure to dose "Safe" correctly.

https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/2653-correct-safe-dosage

^Quite a read there, but very informative (as well as a bit confusing...)

Good luck.

[Mando]

Just my 2 cents about water, testing and "Safe";

1. Get the report of your local water ASAP. There is a real-time updated on their official website in some area.
2. Make sure test kit is not old.
3. Test the aged water "before" putting "Safe" in.
4. Make sure to dose "Safe" correctly.

https://www.seachem.com/support/forums/forum/general-discussion/2653-correct-safe-dosage

^Quite a read there, but very informative (as well as a bit confusing...)

Good luck.

The aged water in my 55g barrel after 24 hrs matches the fresh tap at 1ppm of ammonia. Test kit expires in two years and I tested the main tank with the same kit 5 mins apart and it had 0 ammonia.

I’ll try to get the report now and follow up.

[Mando]

Update, my city water uses chlorine. Not sure why I have ammonia from tap. So here is the plan. Tomorrow I will go out and buy a small hob filter, and I’m thinking of removing some media from my maintank’s sump and adding it to the new filter. I will only do 50-75% water changes twice a day going forward rather than 100% twice a day.

Food for thought; how did my tank lose its cycle if I have 1ppm of ammonia from tap/aged barrel.

[brewmaster15]

Mando, it has to do with how much waste there is and how much bacteria.. 1 ppm ammonia is not alot.. not enough to feed a colony of bacteria large enough to deal with your tanks biological processes..So when ammonia production increases theres not enough bacteria to consume it quickly... then the same thing repeats with nitrites.

hth,
Al

[Mando]

Mando, it has to do with how much waste there is and how much bacteria.. 1 ppm ammonia is not alot.. not enough to feed a colony of bacteria large enough to deal with your tanks biological processes..So when ammonia production increases theres not enough bacteria to consume it quickly... then the same thing repeats with nitrites.

hth,
Al

I see. I guess to get a hold of this quickly and not stunt my fish, I will buy a small filter. I have plenty of media in my sump to get a new filter going. Shouldn't be too much trouble.

[Mando]

I’d like to report that the new filter worked and water is stable again. It goes in at 1ppm ammonia but clears up within 2 hours.

The pale marlboro is doing great!
119995

[brewmaster15]

Glad to hear all is well in Paradise for your Fish Mando!:) Thanks for the update.

al

[Mando]

120462
Same fish, new markings. Almost an overnight change.