Starting a 300 litre/80 gallon Discus Tank and need some pointers

[DISCUSsing]

Hi all,
I am very new to this forum and Discus keeping and have searched some of my many questions on this forum although not all have been answered so I decided to make a new post for anyone with the same questions as I did.
I am planning on buying a 400 litre/80 gallon tank and stocking it with 3 - 5 adult Discus (i know I could get away with more but other fish will also inhabit the tank). As for dithers probably 10 cardinals or Rummy noses and a few rainbow fish (Open to other suggestions for tank mates!)
The reason I have come here before buying my fish and tank is to ensure that I can look after these fish well and not hurt them or my pocket!;)
With a tank that size and that stocking with overkill filtration will I be able to get away with a 50% water change weekly or half weekly e.t.c. If not how often should my water changes be and how much water should be taken out?
Much appreciated and please don't hold back, I need to know and I am very seriously considering Discus as a new fish. I can successfully look after fish and semi delicate ones like Egyptian Mouth brooders and successfully spawned them as well as Apistogramma Cacutoides, so i'm not a noob to the hobby but just an intermediate fish keeper who would like to broaden his horizons.
Thank you heaps, all feedback is much appreciated.

BTW, i am planning on having this tank as a show tank in my living room so i would like to sparsely plant it with lots of open room in the front and as least nooks and crannies as possible, any suggestions?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi DISCUSsing and welcome to Simply. Before answering questions I do suggest you spin some time in the beginner section of the forum and review the stickie threads. You will find that discus are best kept in group of five or more to help spread the aggression. Many here will recommend six to eight discus as a starting point.

While keeping other fish is a nice intro to keeping discus you will find yo will need to up your game with these fish to grow and keep them well. We do this by feeding them well and changing lots of water. Please start with the video in the first post of this thread. Start Here! (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-WATCH-THIS-VIDEO!). It's an hour long but well worth the time. The man in the video is the owner of this forum and knows his stuff and may stop by and personally welcome you to the forum. :)
Pat

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi and a warm welcome to Simply Discus from mee too. I would follow Pat's advice and do a little more research and forward planning. I would concour with getting a few more discus, mainly because numbers allow them to feel at the same time safer and less aggressive towards each other. Also getting the fish all at once from one breeder avoids problems with introducing potential patogens when purchasing fish from different origins.
As you have probably gathered the younger the fish you buy the more water/more oftwn you have to change, while the more grown they are the less this is necessary (but $$$). There are a number of forum members from Down Under who will be able to also help with advice more topical with your location, but again Welcome!

[Filip]

Hi and welcome Discussing .
If you want a successfull display tank straight forward it would be wise to buy your self grown discus . There should be at least 5- 6 like the others have already advised and it would be wise to get them first before introducing any other fish .
You can get away with weekly WCs in this scenario but be prepared for more in the initial phase while your filter cathch up with the added bioload .

Good luck .

[DISCUSsing]

Wow,
Thank you guys heaps for all the feedback, Much Appreciated!!
I'll defiantly now keep the discus in a group of 5 - 6, although will this mean more WCs and less dithers?
What other fish should I keep with the discus, any suggestions?
Second Hand Pat, I did watch the video, very educational and I am actually already subscribed to Joey (The King of DIY) on you tube, learned heaps!!
Thanks again guys!!

[Adam S]

Hello DISCUSsing,

Definitely prioritize getting 5-6 adults over the other fish. Discus don't need "dithers" to be happy, and for people new to discus, they're probably more trouble than they're worth. It's always a risk mixing fish, and the last thing anyone wants is a $1XX discus getting sick and dying from a diseased tetra or ancistrus.

[DISCUSsing]

Adam, will it be ok if I quarantine any 'dither' fish that go into that tank?
I don't plan on having heaps and heaps of smaller fish, just maybe some tetras or rainbows.

[fljones3]

Adam, will it be ok if I quarantine any 'dither' fish that go into that tank?
I don't plan on having heaps and heaps of smaller fish, just maybe some tetras or rainbows.

As long as they are compatible and can handle the temps, there is nothing wrong with having dither fish. After all, its your tank. Anything you “add” increases complexity and possible problems. Since you are new to discus, perhaps you might be more comfortable setting up a bare bottom tank, cycle, get the appropriate quality adult fish, and then, wait. Perhaps wait 3-4 months until you have learned along the way. Then, get some dither fish in QT.

I started with dither fish and now, just have a bristlenose and several cories. I thought about adding some beautiful cardinals but, on second thought, did not want to add the complexity. Plus, I need to see how my discus pair off. :)

[DISCUSsing]

Thanks Frank,
I think that is what I am going to do although after some time I would like to plant the tank.
Plus I have heard that RO water is preferred for Discus, is it ok if I just treat my water before putting it in?
Plus the water that comes out of my tap is a ph of 8, so any ideas on how to lower it around 6 to 7 without using ph down because I have heard that Discus like soft acidic water although if I keep the ph consistent and water clean it will be ok, is that true? Plus if I keep lowering the ph with ph down wont that affect the buffer, that is why I need an alternate method.
By the way, thank you guys for your help, it is much appreciated!

[Adam S]

Anything you “add” increases complexity and possible problems. Since you are new to discus, perhaps you might be more comfortable setting up a bare bottom tank, cycle, get the appropriate quality adult fish, and then, wait.
This is a much better way to put it. The less things that can go wrong, the better, especially when new to the fish.



Plus I have heard that RO water is preferred for Discus, is it ok if I just treat my water before putting it in?
Using RO and pH manipulating products are usually big mistakes. Do you have more info/numbers on your tap water? It's probably fine for discus. I'll link a post by Carol Roberts called "How do I set up my first discus tank?" below, as it is a fabulous and well-organized introduction to basic discus care.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?28937-How-do-I-set-up-my-first-discus-tank

[DISCUSsing]

Adam, here are some more numbers on my tap water:
PH: 7.8 - 8.0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
KH: 3
Gh: 1
Ammonia: 0.25 (Is that normal?)
Hope this helps.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Your water although with a high pH is still pretty soft so definitely no need for reverse osmosis. The ammonia reading is a bit of a concern, maybe cross check with a different test kit. Could be from chloramines added to the water. I would definitely use Prime and for water changes I would get a container to put the tap-water in first to age and treat with prime before putting it in the fish tank

[gotwins86]

I also have ammonia in my tap water from cholarmine. Like Paul said, just treat with Prime and you will be fine. I have had no issues with it as my bio-filter takes care of it pretty quickly.

[DISCUSsing]

Ok, will do.
Also what is the best way to age water?
And does anyone have any suggestions on tank mates?
Thanks for all the help!

[fljones3]

Plus I have heard that RO water is preferred for Discus, is it ok if I just treat my water before putting it in? Plus the water that comes out of my tap is a ph of 8, so any ideas on how to lower it around 6 to 7 without using ph down because I have heard that Discus like soft acidic water although if I keep the ph consistent and water clean it will be ok, is that true? Plus if I keep lowering the ph with ph down wont that affect the buffer, that is why I need an alternate method.

No need to mess with your PH or buffering. Again, simple is better. No RO needed as others have noted.

[DISCUSsing]

Ok thanks Frank,
Do you know the best way to age water?
Thanks!

[Paul Sabucchi]

Depends on where you are going to put it, as spouses tend to object to big plastic barrels plonked in the house (fortunately my long suffering wife is very understanding). I believe in Australia you are spoilt for choice as far as water catchment containers. Is the ageing butt going to be on the same floor of the display tank? You are going to be better off if you can rig up some sort of permanent hose to empty the tank and another (with a pump) to get the water from the ageing barrel back into the tank. In the barrel to agitate the water you can 7se either an air-stone/pump or a wavemaker (I use a SunSun JVP 100).
As for companion fish the most tried and tested are rummy-nose and cardinal tetras (but I would also consider lemon tetras) and Corydoras sterbai

[DISCUSsing]

Yes the ageing water will be on the same floor as the tank.
I'll try to do the hoses thing that you said.
So in order to age water it just has to sit there? And if so for how long?
Do you know if rainbows and/or Angels to well with Discus?
Thanks a lot guys!!!!

[fljones3]

Yes the ageing water will be on the same floor as the tank.
I'll try to do the hoses thing that you said.
So in order to age water it just has to sit there? And if so for how long?
Do you know if rainbows and/or Angels to well with Discus?
Thanks a lot guys!!!!

Usually add aeration and a heater. Probably at minimum 24 hours.

[DISCUSsing]

Oh ok thanks Frank,
What about the tank mates such as rainbows, angels e.t.c, in your experience what has worked well?
Thanks

[Pices]

Tank mates could be cardinal or rummy nose tetras and Sterbae cories can take the higher temps if you want schooling fish. Also blue rams are popular. I’m seen gouramis and angel fish too. Many like cories because they clean up uneaten food.
I’m sure there’s more people who can make suggestions. I’m sure Adam knows what plecos could work too.
Patty

[fljones3]

Oh ok thanks Frank,
What about the tank mates such as rainbows, angels e.t.c, in your experience what has worked well?
Thanks

All here have made good suggestions. Cardinal or rummy nose tetras are some of my favorites. I also have a special place for German Blue Rams.

[Pices]

I have rummy nose in my discus tank and just added cardinal tetras and cories (after quarantine of course) to my angel tank. I like the cardinals best though.
Patty

[DISCUSsing]

Yeah I think I am going to go with Cardinals, rummy nose and Blue rams.
Any suggestions about Apistogramma Cacutoides?
And what about kribensis?
Thanks guys!

[dagray]

Apistograms like colder water than Discus..... This is what the owner of the fish store I frequent for some of my dry goods and dither fish said when I asked him about Apistos Vs. Rams in the Discus tank.

Rams have been found in 90 degree water in the wild doing just fine.

I don't have Discus anymore, but in a few months I will have Discus again as I am saving my funds through the winter months to be able to purchase some Discus this late spring or summer.

[DISCUSsing]

Ok thanks Dave, looks like i'll just be keeping Rams.
Any suggestions on how many should go in my tank?
Thanks!

[DISCUSsing]

Hey Guys,
Does anyone know if U can mix strains of Blue Ram in my Discus Tank (E.G: Electric's with goldens)
And also does anyone know any really nice strains to start with, there are so many I though I might learn some here.
By the way I have decided to by my Discus as juveniles and raise them up as big as I can get them and then scape and stock the tank with other inhabitants.
I know that I need to have my grow out tank as a bare bottom and change water once or twice a day. How long will it take to raise them up from 2-3 inch juvies.
I know I ask so many questions but thanks for all the answers guys, much appreciated!

[snxtif]

Don't wanna rain on your parade here, but as a professional discus stunter myself (lol),
I hope you understand what kind of challenge you are taking yourself into.
(as you mentioned above, bb tank, 2xWC/day etc. is on the right track I believe.
and next would be food and diseases.)

One thing about WC though, I wish you can experience it before you commit to your purchase (2").
Like, let's try to get a grip on first-hand experience of 2xWC a day for a couple weeks and please ask yourself
that you would we able to do the same thing for few months, and once a day after that.


There are loads of useful posts on beginner threads:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?48-Discus-Basics-for-Beginners

as well as members are on grow out challenge in these threads:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?406-Discus-Grow-Out-Challenger-Contest-2018


These threads would save you from loads of time and headaches.

Good luck on your journey.

[DISCUSsing]

Thanks but can anyone else answer the other questions that I wrote in the last post.
Thanks!

[Paul Sabucchi]

If you get 3" fish you are looking at a good 12 months to get the bulk of their growth over and done, thereafter they will continue growing but at a slower rate

[DISCUSsing]

If you get 3" fish you are looking at a good 12 months to get the bulk of their growth over and done, thereafter they will continue growing but at a slower rate

Thanks Paul,
Once they are fully grown does anyone know if I can mix strains of Rams?
And also does anyone suggest any strains to start off with.
Thanks guys much appreciated!