New Discus Tank Issues

[Bryann27]

Hi all,

I’ve been keeping several types of fishes for a while now and decided i would like to keep Some discus. All Said and done and my discus tank has been running for a Month now. At the moment i’ve got 8 young discus of wich 5 seem to be doing fine however 3 of them aren’t.. All fish come from different breeders and seemed to be doing great at first when added to the tank. My biggest concern is the fact that the 3 discus refuse to eat, this has nothing to do with dominance since they simply don’t even care about the food.. Apart of that is my bright red fish currently losing his beautifull colors, while the other fish has turned completely black.

The fishes come from 3 different breeders so i’ve added them in 3 times. The fishes I added the last 2 times have had a bath of discus protector recommended by the breeder himself.

The tank is a Juwel Vision 180 Liter. I’m aware of the fact that this is to small for 8 adult discus but it should be big eneugh for these young ones. .

Water Parameters:
32 degrees Celsius (I raised it in order to stimulate their digestion )
Ph: 7.2
(NO2): 0
(NO3): 10
KH: 6
GH: 7
CL2: 0

The tank is running 2 filters, 1 internal filter with sponges from juwel and 1 external cannister filter from eheim. The external filter on it’s Own has al output of 440 liter/ hour.

The soil is Made out of gravel with nutritabs for the plants. .
As I mentioned above the tank has been running with discus for about a month now. However the tank itself has been running over 2 years.

I’m doing 50% water changes Every day.

I’ve already tried a treatment of esha2000, Esha hexamita and Jbl furanol, nothing really seems to have al effect on their eating etc. Before the treatment Some had white poop.. but this is the only problem that seems to be resolved.

If somebody has any idea what kind of disease could be the issue please let me know Asap.. i’ve already tried a dutch forum but i’m still waiting for a reply. And i don’t feel like i’ve got any time to spare.


Thanks in advance,,
Bryan

[LizStreithorst]

Please post pics. What is your ammonia reading? What sizes are your Discus? Having young Discus in a planted tank is generally a poor idea.

[Bryann27]

I’m trying to post pics, but it’s not really that easy from my phone. Please give me a Second. & I can’t test my ammonia levels..

[Bryann27]

This is a pic from when the red fish was added
https://postimg.cc/3k4gd4YY

This Picture was Made today
https://postimg.cc/mP5H4bHJ

I would say they are about 10cm Some a bit bigger

[Bryann27]

This fish has turned completely black.
https://postimg.cc/XBb5PQCv
The fish in the middel of the pic Hidding (the black one) is the fish from above.
https://postimg.cc/7562jCfS
The fish in the top left corner is a pigeon that also refuses to eat. Al the other 5 are eating great and are responding instant when i’m feeding

[fljones3]

Small tank. Is there any way you can put them in a bare-bottom tank. It’s usually not wise to mix different discus from various breeders. Did you quarantine?

[Bryann27]

Small tank. Is there any way you can put them in a bare-bottom tank. It’s usually not wise to mix different discus from various breeders. Did you quarantine?

I do have 1 more aquarium I could use but that’s even smaller.. only 150 Liters I guess. We did give 6 of the fish a bath in discus protector, wich is supposed to be Some sort of quarantine to prevent cross contamination. The first 3 fish didn’t get a quarantine since we didn’t really see the point.

I know gravel and plants can cause a Messy tank and bad water because of the food getting caught behind it but is it really that bad if you clean your tank every day?

Apart of that i tought it was better for the discus to have Some hiding spots opposed to a bare tank..

And Will this really contribute to getting them back to eat?

[Altum Nut]

Sorry to hear about your issues Bryan.
I'm also sorry that no quarantine and mixing sources may have jump started the rough road you face ahead.
I think this breeder should not be selling Discus if they say there is a product that protects Discus from cross contamination. The pigeon discus will naturally pepper drastically in dark environments as your tank is. Discus are susceptible to weak immune system when stressed and kept under poor conditions. Although your doing w/c's everyday, the gravel deposits uneaten food which you admitted will rot and spoil your water.
At this point your adding meds without knowing what your treating for.
Your Discus are not very happy at this point.

Suggestion will be to start your other tank making sure it's sterile keeping it bare bottom and use one of your seeding filters but rising out media in tank water first and just add aquarium salt to aid the stress level and monitor them for the time period with daily w/c's.

...Ralph

[Altum Nut]

Here are 2 thread links for reference for someone getting into Discus for the first time.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?133927-D-I-S-C-U-S-6-Cardinal-Rules-for-Newbies-to-Follow

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122038-Are-you-new-to-discus-WATCH-THIS-VIDEO!

...Ralph

[Bryann27]

First of all thanks for the advice you Guys are giving me..
I’m guessing putting them in a bare tank is the only thing I can do right now so i’ll Do that asap..
I really hope I can save all these fish but i’m afraid it’s already to late for the smaller pigeon.

[Bryann27]

Apart of that would you recommend just moving the sick ones or all of them?

[fljones3]

I do have 1 more aquarium I could use but that’s even smaller.. only 150 Liters I guess. We did give 6 of the fish a bath in discus protector, wich is supposed to be Some sort of quarantine to prevent cross contamination. The first 3 fish didn’t get a quarantine since we didn’t really see the point.

I know gravel and plants can cause a Messy tank and bad water because of the food getting caught behind it but is it really that bad if you clean your tank every day?

Apart of that i tought it was better for the discus to have Some hiding spots opposed to a bare tank..

And Will this really contribute to getting them back to eat?

Ralph gave some excellent advice. Yes, I would move all the discus.
I know that you clean the tank every day but the gravel still accumulates gunk. I think you would be amazed how much if you broke your tank down. I had gravel (no plants) for about 4 months. After doing a LOT of reading in the beginners forum (along with past fish experience), I knew I had a time bomb waiting to happen. I went bare bottom. The fish and owner are happier.

At this point, nothing is guaranteed moving them to the other tank. However, I think if you leave them in the existing tank your possibilities are more dire.

[Paul Sabucchi]

I would probably temporarily put both filters on the 150 and all the fish in that while you remove gravel and all from the 180 and put the apparently healthy fish and the internal filter back in that one and leave the 3 ones that are struggling in the 150 so you can give treatment as deemed necessary just to those

[Bryann27]

Okay, I’ve started moving all of the discus to the bare tank.. i’ll add Some salt to the water and we’ll see what happends.

[Bryann27]

I would probably temporarily put both filters on the 150 and all the fish in that while you remove gravel and all from the 180 and put the apparently healthy fish and the internal filter back in that one and leave the 3 ones that are struggling in the 150 so you can give treatment as deemed necessary just to those
I’m most likely going to do this. It seems to be the best option, thanks Again for all the advice

[Bryann27]

The pigeon discus will naturally pepper drastically in dark environments as your tank is.

...Ralph

Could you perhaps explain this a bit more? I’m aware of the fact that the peppering would get worse if my aquarium water was to hard. But what do you mean with a dark environment?

[Paul Sabucchi]

It is a sort of minetism, dark substrate and/or background will stimulate the fish to darken their melanophores to blend in with the environment

[Bryann27]

Okay, thnx for the explanation on that!
We’ve moved the fish and color wise they already look better, the smallest pigeon however probably won’t Make it.. only time can tell I guess. Currently cleaning out the 180.. and prepping it for the discus that do eat.

[fljones3]

Keep us updated.

[Paul Sabucchi]

May the Force be with them!

[Bryann27]

I Will definetely keep you Guys updated. I Will try to take & post Some pictures of them later today

[Bryann27]

I took a few pics of the discus that do eat.. they are currently back in the 180 but bare this time.
https://ibb.co/ee3UAV
https://ibb.co/mSe2VV
https://ibb.co/fyX0HA
https://ibb.co/ePtJ4q
https://ibb.co/hSrcxA
https://ibb.co/mEhjcA
I’ll upload Some pics later today of the fish that refuse to eat.. they are currently in the 150

[Bryann27]

I did notice their Fins look a bit rough.. is this because of the constant stress perhaps, or could there be a different cause?

[Bryann27]

The one in the middle of this Picture has started to eat again so I put Him back in the 180 aswell.
https://ibb.co/cwJYD3d
The red discus still not accepting food but i feel like he is still treatable.
https://ibb.co/Jz2HwgW
The small pigeon.. Not accepting food.. but i feel like he is to far gone already..
https://ibb.co/k8LGGd4

Anything else I could do to help the last 2 out? Or any toughts in general? Please let me know.

[Bryann27]

https://vimeo.com/302674600

I just made a vid from the discus that do eat.. any opinions or suggestions?

Other news the small pigeon didn’t make it and died earlier today. The red discus is still not accepting food.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Jeez even the ones that are eating look sooo skinny. For the time being I would stick to plenty of clean water and good nutritious food (FDBW,beefheart or fish mix) for both tanks hoping the red one gradually improves and can rejoin the others. Once they are on the mend you could consider following the guidelines for prophylactic treatment with levamisole and prazi like during quarantine.
If you are considering getting more discus I would advise to use a better supplier (like one of the tried and tested forum sponsors) and do not mix the new fish or their equipment with this previous lot

[Bryann27]

I’m currently feeding them brine shrimp, white&black&red mosquito larvae, and tetra discus food.. currently still doing the daily water changes on both tanks

[Paul Sabucchi]

At their age brine shrimp has probably scarce nutritional value. You need high protein and palatable food to put meat on them fishbones.

[Bryann27]

I will focus on feeding them the mosquito larvae, i’ve Got special blocks of fd discus food aswell.. not really sure what it contains but they aren’t keen on it anyway.
https://vimeo.com/302688512

[fljones3]

Be sure to soak the freeze dried food for 5 min or so before feeding.

[Bryann27]

Someone on the Dutch forum recommended me to do a treatment of Cerpofor Bactyfec in combination with Cerpofor Flagellex.. What do you guys think?