Sick discus despite my efforts

[LoGeek]

I've read a lot on this magnificent forum and have been trying to implement it, but somehow I have ended up with several sick fish.

They eat and are active. But the sick ones are a bit darker and have "foggy" eyes, not the clear red eyes they used to have. One fish also spits out a lot of the food. Sometimes they rub their sides against driftwood, but not excessively. This probably started a year ago. Also they have never started to breed despite me having them for 2 years and since juvies.

The tank is bare bottom 110 gallons with 9 discus. I haven't changed anything for at least a year. I clean filters (2 canisters and one sponge) regularly in tank water and change 50% water daily. I don't age water but pH swing is below 0.2 and I dose Seachem Safe for chloramine.

The water and tank looks really clean. I wipe the glass and siphon everywhere at least every week.

I've thought that maybe just clean water will cure them, but it has not. After a year I resorted to trying metro (in water and home made food mix) and also Prazipro. The treatment did not change anything. The kept eating and behaving like always but still look sick. No wormes sighted.

Experienced discus keepers, please advice me what to do.

Here are some photos of my fish from today:

https://i.postimg.cc/jqnhN34R/20181125-171036.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/PJnv1ydq/20181125-171247.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/85RzgSV1/20181125-171310.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/yx7YVbV0/20181125-171349.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jörgen, when did the foggy eyes become apparent? The discus in the second appears thin. Is this the one spitting out food? Also is it at the bottom of the pecking order. When they rub their sides is it just after a water change?

My first recommendation would be to age your water. Can you do this?
Pat

[LoGeek]

Hi Pat. I would like to age the water but I don't have room for it. On the other hand, why would it help? The pH-swing is very small and the water contains monochloramine which is removed with Seachem Safe.

The fish do not seem to bother at water change at all, and do not rub more or become darker afterwards. There are no micro bubbles to irritate them.

I think the foggy eyes started at least a year ago.

I agree some of them are thin. The one spitting food is even thinner than the ones in the photos. That one also shakes/wiggles with large movements after spitting out.

They have always eaten a lot and still turned out kind of small. I have two fish that have never been sick and have clear eyes, and they are larger and thicker than the rest.

I have never observed any weird looking poop. However some white pimples appear from time to time.

[LoGeek]

Also, they seem a little bit happier during times when I have changed even larger amounts of water daily and cleaned the filters every second week. But it's not enough.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Eating a lot but remaining on the small and thin side may be an intestinal parassite, thinking more worms than protozoa. Ideally you would have the feces checked for worm eggs under the microscope to see if there is anything to be seen

[LoGeek]

The one spitting:
https://i.postimg.cc/1zmY0x98/20181125-184129.jpg

The smallest darkest fish:
https://i.postimg.cc/sxhnfsJN/20181125-184241.jpg

One of the healthy fish:
https://i.postimg.cc/xjJp33S3/20181125-184304.jpg

[LizStreithorst]

I was thinking worms also, Paul. If you don't have access to a scope I would try 100% levamasole. I may have the dose written on my old container of it somewhere. If not, It's been posted here before.

[Mando]

Don’t give up on them yet. They look like they grew nicely. How long ago did you stop dosing medicine and how much time passed in between the different medications? You might have to fill out the questionnaire so the gurus can help. Questionnaire stops a lot of the questions and is an efficient way for them to provide a remedy.

What temp is the water going in when performing water changes? I had a similar issue where it seemed like medicine wasn’t helping me. First, my water was going extremely cold and I believe this disturbed the slime coat process and allowed bacteria. Second, my well water had bacteria in it. After I went with heated, aged tap water, my problems dissapeared. Do you clean both canisters at the same time?

I guess knowing your ammonia, nitrite, etc, may help.

I was able to get one of my fish to eat frozen blood worms. I would thaw it out with garlic and tank water.

[LoGeek]

Paul and Liz, yes maybe they have worms.

Mando, I tried the medication just a couple of days ago. Prazipro (actually it's sold as eSha gdex here in Sweden) at recommended dose for a week, and Metro for a couple of days.

Temperature is 27.5-28 Celsius. At water change I let it drop to 26.5 C.

I don't test the water often but have had no ammonia or nitrite when I've tested. I have large bio filtration and never forget to change water (automatic system).

[jeep]

Eating a lot but remaining on the small and thin side may be an intestinal parassite, thinking more worms than protozoa. Ideally you would have the feces checked for worm eggs under the microscope to see if there is anything to be seen

One symptom of internal parasites can be foggy eyes.

[LoGeek]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Described in previous posts. Foggy eyes, some with dark bodies and one that spits food. Nothing unusual happened. Maybe periods with less frequent water changes.


2. Symptoms
Some dark and sometimes scratching against driftwood.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
eSha gdex at recommended dose for one week.
Metro powder in water like three days at 2 tsp for 450l.
Temperature 27.5 Celsius.

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
450l Juwel Rio. 9 discus, 2+ years old and two Bristlenose Plecos 1.5 years old.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
50% daily. Siphoning and wiping of glass once a week.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Maybe 1.5 years. Bare bottom but large driftwoods with Anubias and Java Fern.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No. pH goes up 0.2 at water change 50%.


8. Parameters and water source;

- temp 27.5-28.0 C

- ph ~7.5

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- municipal water treated with Seachem Safe dosed after water change

9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No.


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Twice a day. Lunch time Tetra Bits or freeze dried blackworms. Evening home made mix (fish, banana, garlic, spinach, multivitamin, spirulina).

[LoGeek]

Any more ideas regarding my sick fish? I will probably try Liz recommendation and treat with levamisole soon.

[brewmaster15]

Treating with a broad spectrum dewormer like levamisole is a quick and easy way to deal with it if its worms. Before you go that route though.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
eSha gdex at recommended dose for one week.
Metro powder in water like three days at 2 tsp for 450l.
Temperature 27.5 Celsius.

More info here .. whats the concentration of the medication? It doesnt sound like your dosed metro long enough. 7-10 days daily dosing at 500 mg per 10 gals is generally whats used with Discus.. shorter dosing durations generally lead you to relapses and drug resistance.

hth,
Al

[Megalodon]

How much Safe are you dosing? I found the recommended dose is very optimistic and removes less than half the chloramine in my water. And I have only 1.37 mg/L...

[LoGeek]

Thanks Al! I have searched in the forum and done the math and my 2 teaspoons equals around 400 mg/10gallons. I'll get right back to metro and try to keep 500 mg/10gallons for 7-10 days.

[LoGeek]

Regarding Seachem Safe: On my bucket it says 1 gram for every 1000 liters. I dose around 0.5-1.0 gram in my 450 liter tank. In my city the water is treated with monochloramine but is measured as total cl2 and is below 0.03 cl2/liter.

I have no idea if my dosage is enough or too much...

[Lionheart]

Hey, I noted you said "municipal water treated with Seachem Safe dosed after water change"

Is Seachem Safe used the same way as Prime? With Prime, pretty sure you dose the remaining water left in the tank after a wc and only then fill the tank up. I have never used Safe. Does it say when to dose during a wc?

[LoGeek]

Hey, I noted you said "municipal water treated with Seachem Safe dosed after water change"

Is Seachem Safe used the same way as Prime? With Prime, pretty sure you dose the remaining water left in the tank after a wc and only then fill the tank up. I have never used Safe. Does it say when to dose during a wc?

Yes I dose for tank volume immediately after filling with water. Safe is the powder version of Prime so I guess they should be used in the same way. Maybe I should dose for entire tank volume before filling?

I dont think it's supposed to be used while medicating, right?

[danotaylor]

You will definitely still need to dechlorinate/treat your replacement water with Safe when medicating. The only thing that you need to stop/remove when medicating is activated carbon as it will remove the medication from your system.

[danotaylor]

Oh, and yes, dose your tank with safe before filling. Small exposure to chlorine & chloramines is usually harmless, but if your fish are sick and stressed already, it would be more beneficial to add it 1st...

[Pices]

Good advice Daniel!
Patty

[LoGeek]

Oh, and yes, dose your tank with safe before filling. Small exposure to chlorine & chloramines is usually harmless, but if your fish are sick and stressed already, it would be more beneficial to add it 1st...

Thank you for that advice!

[danotaylor]

My pleasure mate. Happy to help. All the best on your treatment regime!!

[Megalodon]

Thanks Al! I have searched in the forum and done the math and my 2 teaspoons equals around 400 mg/10gallons. I'll get right back to metro and try to keep 500 mg/10gallons for 7-10 days.

The purity of metronidazole and other drugs can vary so that has to be taken into account. It's probably not the culprit here but something to consider if out of ideas.


Regarding Seachem Safe: On my bucket it says 1 gram for every 1000 liters. I dose around 0.5-1.0 gram in my 450 liter tank. In my city the water is treated with monochloramine but is measured as total cl2 and is below 0.03 cl2/liter.

I have no idea if my dosage is enough or too much...

0.03 mg/L chlorine seems odd. It should be 1.5-2.5 mg/L and measured at your tap after running the water for 5 minutes.

500 mg of Safe in 225 L of water will remove 1.34 mg/L of chloramine. That's if you treat the water before using it. I heat it for several hours, use a pump to mix the water, and add dechlorinator If you dose it directly into the aquarium then you need a lot more to speed up the reaction.

The standard dose of Prime removes 3.8 mg/L of chloramine. The standard dose of Safe removes 0.66 mg/L. You need to dose Safe at 5.5-6 times the recommended dosage to match Prime.

[LoGeek]

The purity of metronidazole and other drugs can vary so that has to be taken into account. It's probably not the culprit here but something to consider if out of ideas.



0.03 mg/L chlorine seems odd. It should be 1.5-2.5 mg/L and measured at your tap after running the water for 5 minutes.

500 mg of Safe in 225 L of water will remove 1.34 mg/L of chloramine. That's if you treat the water before using it. I heat it for several hours, use a pump to mix the water, and add dechlorinator If you dose it directly into the aquarium then you need a lot more to speed up the reaction.

The standard dose of Prime removes 3.8 mg/L of chloramine. The standard dose of Safe removes 0.66 mg/L. You need to dose Safe at 5.5-6 times the recommended dosage to match Prime.

Thanks! Here they strive for no more than 0.03 mg/l cl2. Maybe it's higher in other countries.

[LoGeek]

I've noticed that my sickest discus only uses one gill and breaths rapidly. Does that narrow down possible diseases and treatments?

Metro and Prazi hasn't had any effect so far.

[LoGeek]

500 mg of Safe in 225 L of water will remove 1.34 mg/L of chloramine. That's if you treat the water before using it. I heat it for several hours, use a pump to mix the water, and add dechlorinator If you dose it directly into the aquarium then you need a lot more to speed up the reaction.

The standard dose of Prime removes 3.8 mg/L of chloramine. The standard dose of Safe removes 0.66 mg/L. You need to dose Safe at 5.5-6 times the recommended dosage to match Prime.

I have followed the instructions on my bucket and it's supposed to remove 4ppm, which equals 4 mg/l I presume. So with 0.03 mg/l in my tap I should be on the safe side.

https://i.postimg.cc/k4KYHCLv/20181202-210906.jpg

[Mando]

I've noticed that my sickest discus only uses one gill and breaths rapidly. Does that narrow down possible diseases and treatments?

Metro and Prazi hasn't had any effect so far.

When my new batch of fry did this, I added salt (1TBS per gallon) and kept up with water changes and the problem went away. I believe that Al mentioned Salt reducing or calming their heavy breathing. I also added an air stone and up'd the temp to 88-89.

[LoGeek]

Two days ago I finished a 24h levamisole bath at 2.5 ppm. No visible change yet.

My sickest fish still spits out most food and only uses one gill. When trying to eat it shakes the head back and forth. Sometimes some sort of white slimy stuff comes out while it's shaking.

What do I do now...?

[snxtif]

About water, as already been mentioned above, 0.03 mg/L seems really weird,
since that would not effectively disinfect anything... but well...

As for Safe, I think it's easier to understand in metric-scale:
Dose = 1mg/L removes 1ppm (well, 1mg/L) of Chlorine/Chloramine.
While you can treat x4 for Ammonia



As for the symptom, since I'm not the expert I'd not comment on that,
but later if you choose to google "discus is breathing with one gill"
your experience might (or might not) go like this;


***WARNING! SPOILER ALERT! THIS IS NOT THE RECOMMENDATION***

1. one Googles "discus is breathing with one gill"
2. "gill flukes" hit
3. one might post on forum "Should I treat gill flukes?"
4. "Treat with? Dose?"
5. experience members would be like "the only way to confirm gill fluke is to scrape & scope"
6. one might not have a scope, yet decide to treat with something anyway
7. in the case, Prazi or Paraguard might be chosen
8. some fish might get better, some might not...
9. one might go through 5 stages of loss
10. one might experience revelation and seek for more enlightenment

[LoGeek]

So far I've tried Praziquantel, Metronidazol and Levamisol without any improvement.

[LoGeek]

Advice anyone? Otherwise I'll just have to cull them I guess...?

I've kept up large wc but it doesn't help.

[fljones3]

You can try sachem paraguard. It has worked when others didn't.

[LoGeek]

Is that the consensus among all of you experienced discus keepers, to use Paraguard in this case? What does it treat that you suspect in my fish?

[Mando]

Did you move him to a hospital tank? You’re approaching a month that the discus hasn’t eaten. I wonder if anyone else has any suggestions. It’s only this one discus that’s showing symptoms? How does the fieces look?

Another thing that helped me was the use of epsom salt with Metro/prazi. But if the fish hasn’t eaten, then there is nothing to discharge. After the treatment, I then siphoned the fiecies from the bare bottom as soon as it hit the floor.. I tried to give them the cleanest water possible when they got sick.

[LoGeek]

Did you move him to a hospital tank? You’re approaching a month that the discus hasn’t eaten. I wonder if anyone else has any suggestions. It’s only this one discus that’s showing symptoms? How does the fieces look?

Another thing that helped me was the use of epsom salt with Metro/prazi. But if the fish hasn’t eaten, then there is nothing to discharge. After the treatment, I then siphoned the fiecies from the bare bottom as soon as it hit the floor.. I tried to give them the cleanest water possible when they got sick.

It eats but spits out a lot. It shakes it head after spitting out. Getting thinner.

Several of my discus have cloudy eyes and some are dark in color. I've kept the tank spotless for a long time. Vacuuming the bare bottom, large wc daily up to 90%, rinsing filters in tank water and tried metro, prazi and levamisole.

I feel like giving up on discus soon. Is it really this hard? If no one has a solution I guess it is.

Feeces look good and all but one eat well.

[Mando]

I was in your same shoes and almost gave up. Over the last 8-12 months I’ve been able to enjoy the discus as they should be. I had a bad rookie start. The sickest one might die. I got mine to start eating again with live black worms. Stop medicating for now and get them to eat. Add garlic extract to the pellets; see how that goes.

[Mando]

It eats but spits out a lot. It shakes it head after spitting out. Getting thinner.

Several of my discus have cloudy eyes and some are dark in color. I've kept the tank spotless for a long time. Vacuuming the bare bottom, large wc daily up to 90%, rinsing filters in tank water and tried metro, prazi and levamisole.

I feel like giving up on discus soon. Is it really this hard? If no one has a solution I guess it is.

Feeces look good and all but one eat well.

Double check your prameters and make sure you have not lost your cycle.

[LizStreithorst]

Great advice, Mando. Live black worms are the best Discus food. The fish cannot resist the wiggle factor.

[LoGeek]

All but one are eating everything really well but the cloudiness in their eyes never goes away... My cycle is ok.

[Mando]

How are the fish holding up?

[LoGeek]

How are the fish holding up?

Well, no change unfortunately. Some cloudy eyes and one that spits food. I don't know what to try..

[Mando]

Well, no change unfortunately. Some cloudy eyes and one that spits food. I don't know what to try..

So it’s just cloudy eyes and no eating? Are you still medicating? Did you try live worms?

I re-read the first page. I noticed that besides hazy eyes, the discus get white pimples. This is a sign of water quality issues. I know It sounds repetitive but any chance you could age your water? All my problems went away after I stopped well water and aged my tap water.

Also, you mentioned some periods of no/less water changes. If you absolutely can’t age tap water, then keep up with the 50% WC’s daily (for now. Reduce wc’s after they are healthier) and alternate filters when cleaning. Don’t clean both in the same week.

[LoGeek]

All discus are eating well again and are coloring up more. The cloudy eyes are still a problem though.

No, I can't age the water. But I have no large pH swings so I can't see any reason to.

[Tuterosso]

use 6-7 black alder cones on 100L or in shop something like az triple black water
1 day in week dont feed them

[LoGeek]

I think that I have a lot of algae in this tank despite:
- low/medium light
- 50% water change a day
- have cut back on food to once a day
- bare bottom tank that I vacuum
- two canister filters abd one sponge filter. All are pretty clean when I rinse them (in tank water).

How can so much algae grow so rapidly? Connected to my discus health issues?

Can the driftwood leak something? If so, then what can I test for to determine if that is the case?

The tank is bare bottom but with three driftwoods with java fern and anubias.

https://i.postimg.cc/284hFty6/20190305-223249.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/MZfyXH81/20190305-223259.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/XY4F2gBg/20190305-223304.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QxLc7DXw/20190306-222646.jpg

[LoGeek]

So no one has any clue?

I tried no water changes and no food for a week now. The tank and everything in it is completely covered in algae. How is this possible? What can I test for to see if it's the driftwood?

[Jack L]

that isn't algea, that looks like cyano, and IME when that happens the water parameters are less than ideal, or there is too much waste in water
the only way i've gotten rid of it was chemiclean

and I noticed when that was happening the fish weren't happy either.

[Filip]

Jorgen , that's Blue green algae / Cyanobacteria and a brown algae /diatom .
Both of them appear only in a newly and uncycled tanks and go on their own once the cycling process is well established . Presence of any of them usually refers that your beneficial bacteria was wiped off somehow (medicines or over cleaning ) , and it needs time untill it can multiply again .
Meanwhile , add extra Oxygen in you tank , especially on the lower zones where cyano is estabilshed(circulation pump ) .
Buy and dose botteled filter bacteria to boost the beneficial bacteria multiplication .
Remove and silhon out manually as much as you can on every WC . Have patience , cyano may need a month before it starts to die off ,reestablishing your cycling process require some time too.


If you want an instant solution , 4-5 day Black out (blanket covered tank ) with heavy aerisation during the process will kill the cyano too .

Good luck .

[LoGeek]

But I've had these issues for at least a year...! Daily wc and cleaning keeps it down but they come like crazy without daily wc. My filters have only been rinsed in tank water and not more than one at the time.

[Filip]

But I've had these issues for at least a year...! Daily wc and cleaning keeps it down but they come like crazy without daily wc. My filters have only been rinsed in tank water and not more than one at the time.

Try the blackout method then. That would eradicate the cyano for sure .
Cyano hates oxygen , so try and raise your oxigen levels as much as you can .
I'm not sure about your bioload but if you are understocked and feed lightly , maybe you can try to cut back your WCs to twice a week and dose bottled bacteria to help the biomedia establish bacterial colonies for a week or two . Meanwhile check for ammonia or nitrite presence prior WCs if you have tests on hand , just to make sure they are both 0.

[LoGeek]

No ammonia or nitrate. I've had cyano in other tanks and I dont think this is the same. It is not slimy and sticks well to the leafs.

[Filip]

No ammonia or nitrate. I've had cyano in other tanks and I dont think this is the same. It is not slimy and sticks well to the leafs.

From the photos it looks pretty much like it Jorgen .All algae species may appear different under different coditions and maybe that's why it looks a bit different here than in your other tanks .Cyano should come out easily during manual/finger removal and it's easy to be recognized by it's earthly smell .
I wonder why you have it in all your tanks though ? The main triggers for cyano are uncycled tank , Low oxigen or high silicates (like from silica sand ) .

[Jack L]

i have it right now in a small tank that i used fresh sand for. IME its very persistance and chemiclean(and there was another one, bluelife or something like than) but it was the answer.

[Mando]

I am very pleased to hear that your fish are doing better.

Also, how long are you leaving your lights on?

I was diatom free for a long time. Just recently, since I was coming home late from class, I added 3 more hours to my lighting so that I can enjoy my fish while I'm at home. Unfortunately, the Diatom came back. I lowered the light back down to start at 6am, like normal, and shut down at 7pm. It's a 24 hr cycle light, so the 6 am start is a blue light and It does not get amberish until about 9am. I hope this helps you.

I enjoyed not having to wipe my tank down at all since the glass was always clean prior to adding 3hours. In my case, I don't think the diatom is a tank cycle issue. I clean my filter socks every week so I do not have to mess with my sumps beneficial bacteria.

[LoGeek]

My light is on for about 8.5 hours and only two out of four t5-tubes.

They have cloudy eyes still and it gets worse if I don't do large wc every day. Both the fish and the algae gets worse. I'm sad that my discus interest is coming to an end this way. Probably taking all driftwood and plants out tomorrow and start trying medication...

[LoGeek]

After a couple of days without wc (and I'm relly feeding at a minimum):

https://i.postimg.cc/RZ54SJb7/20190412-202202.jpg

[LoGeek]

So I removed all driftwood about a week ago and left all the plants floating.

I can definately see a huge difference in that the algae outbreak almost stopped over night.

Now I'm hoping that the effects on the fish are not irreversible but that they'll return to their healthy vibrant state!

[Mando]

So I removed all driftwood about a week ago and left all the plants floating.

I can definately see a huge difference in that the algae outbreak almost stopped over night.

Now I'm hoping that the effects on the fish are not irreversible but that they'll return to their healthy vibrant state!

any updates on this? how are they doing?

[LoGeek]

any updates on this? how are they doing?

I removed all driftwood about 2 months ago. The tank is bare bottom and only have a few plants floating around. I still have algae growth but much less than with the driftwood.

I think my driftwood was the root of my troubles, that I've had for a very long time. Some of the driftwood was almost hollow inside now, despite them being sold in my lfs.

I removed one of the sick fish, and two others are still quite ill and never eat much. The rest eat and are active but still have cloudy / dark eyes.

Thinking about removing the two that are not eating well, which would leave 6 fish.

I love discus but unfortunately this school has just been sick and problematic most of their life. Not sure I'm cut out to have discus right now.

[cooper666]

By no means am I experienced with discus, but I know fish. I think that daily temp drop during water exchanges might be an issue. Especially if the tank takes several hours to get back up to temp. I really think you should look at adding warmed water during the exchanges while your fish are ill.

Are there fine solids filter pads in the canisters? If you are only cleaning them every couple of weeks, there could be massive populations of protozoans and other stuff in there that could be acting as an irritant.

EDIT - sorry, please ignore this post, it was a response to something on page 1. I am derp

[LoGeek]

I'm not adding cold water. Usually I add water with tank temp.

[LoGeek]

The fish tonight. Not visible in the picture but most of them have foggy eyes.

The smallest one and a yellow (not in the picture) look in worst shape. The yellow one tries to eat over and over again but just misses the food, or doesn't suck in hard enough.

https://i.postimg.cc/HsNWzLDd/20190823-221802.jpg

[LizStreithorst]

bad eyesight is not a rare thing in Discus. If the fish picks up the food and then spits it out it has hex. If he tries to hit the food but misses he had bad eye sight. The only thing you can to to make sure they get enough is to over feed the tank and then vacuum up all the left over food. It's a pain, plus wasting fish food is almost a sin.

[LoGeek]

bad eyesight is not a rare thing in Discus. If the fish picks up the food and then spits it out it has hex. If he tries to hit the food but misses he had bad eye sight. The only thing you can to to make sure they get enough is to over feed the tank and then vacuum up all the left over food. It's a pain, plus wasting fish food is almost a sin.

Ok, might be bad eye sight due to old age then... Never spits out.

Almost all fish having cloudy eyes is another thing, that I never seem to get rid of :(

[LizStreithorst]

That's strange. I can think of what to do since the fish are otherwise well.

[LoGeek]

That's strange. I can think of what to do since the fish are otherwise well.

I think they are 3 years old now. Cloudy eyes like half of that time. Never any courting behaviour... I'm sure something is wrong with the water or me and probably not discus again for me...

[LoGeek]

This is what the eyes have looked like constantly for more than a year.

https://i.postimg.cc/BZPjYySH/20190825-215947.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/kGSD2V1f/20190825-215954.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/DZH8fQgS/20190825-215958.jpg

[LizStreithorst]

What you are seeing is the last vertical bar which is through the eye. This a normal thing. Relax.

[LoGeek]

What you are seeing is the last vertical bar which is through the eye. This a normal thing. Relax.

Hmmm... I wish, but are you sure? The eyes used to be clear and bright despite vertical bars, and in some of my fish still are. Now they look a bit foggy or cloudy on the inside, constantly.

[LizStreithorst]

Yes, I could very well be wrong.

[Mando]

Hmmm... I wish, but are you sure? The eyes used to be clear and bright despite vertical bars, and in some of my fish still are. Now they look a bit foggy or cloudy on the inside, constantly.

I see what you're talking about. Sometimes I have this same thing happen to my fish and it goes away on it's own. I could never pin point as to why it happens but, it does clear up. I never noticed any other adverse effects on my fish. All your fish look healthy except for one (center discus of your post #63). He looks a little skinny compared to his mates.

Maybe your problem is your water parameters. Don't do 50% water changes daily. Try 25% every two days and see how that goes. These are adult discus and you are feeding lightly, so reduce your water changes. Mine get 3 x 30% water changes a week and sometimes I get lazy and it's just 2 a week.

Test your water before and after the water change and see if there is a drastic change. Also do the same for GH and kh. might as well test everything 100%. I have tried various other dechlorinators and ultimately, I stick with Prime. Switch to Prime, it's safe up to 5x the dose.

Your discus have lightened up a bit since you first started this thread and they look healthy, I would not use any medications.

The algae could also be from your 8.5 hour light cycle. I changed mine a bit that has worked even better. I have the lights on from 6am to 8am and 6pm to 9pm. During the day they get natural light from the windows.

[LoGeek]

Thank you Mando, this was a very encouraging post. I will try to change the lighting and see if it affects algae growth, and test all parameters before and after water change (I only have constant measuring of temp and pH).

I'm using Seachem Safe, and my understanding is that the ingredients are the same as Prime, without the water and hence cheaper.

I agree that they have lightened up a bit, I suspect because I removed driftwood and plants.

[sunsetopal]

SPINACH CAN BE TOXIC!!!! (adding it to Beef Heart mix)
I am brand new to the exciting passion of Loving and caring for Discus. But I have to chime in about SPINACH. Spinach given in large doses is one of the most toxic plants for human consumption in the world of edible greens. Please read about 'oxalic acid'. Spinach is also high in Lectins! "Lectins are a type of protein that can bind to sugar. They're sometimes referred to as antinutrients." "Animal studies suggest that certain lectins can reduce the body's ability to absorb nutrients."
"Spinach is LIKELY UNSAFE for infants that are less than 4 months old. The nitrates in spinach can sometimes cause a blood disorder (methemoglobinemia) in young infants."
"Consume too much and you may be in for unpleasant symptoms such as kidney stones, abdominal pain, low blood pressure, tremors or convulsions, vomiting, and weak pulse."
I will NEVER, EVER add SPINACH to my beef heart mix or add vitamins. If Spinach can have this effect on humans imagine what it can do to your Discus Fish you are serving it to every day in their Beef heart meal.
I use organic Peas with outer skin removed and Spirulina. Peas are Great to help rid the ammonia waste they release there fore lessening the nitrogen in your tank. Peas are an excellent source of A,C and K vitamins.

VITAMINS CAN BE TOXIC!! We all know this so I am not a proponent of adding vitamins to the Beef heart mix or any other method of introducing vitamins except through natural foods.

Spirulina is a natural source of nutrition and therefore really great and has no lectins in it and is Super loaded with Vitamin A & K as well as many other vitamins and minerals.

If you feel you must introduce a leafy green to Your Beef heart mix please consider organic Romaine lettuce. It is at the bottom of the list for least amount of Lectins and is also packed with vitamin C, K and folate.(folate is a B vitamin)

"What vitamins do fish need?
Vitamins your fish need:
Vitamin A - from greens and crustaceans. ...
Vitamin B-Complex - from greens, eggs, and fish. ...
Vitamin C - from greens, algae, and fish eggs. ...
Vitamin D - from snails, shrimps, and earthworms. ...
Vitamin K - from water fleas, greens, and liver. "

Thanks! Regina