New to the Forum

[taneal1]

Al, I am using my well water with the wilds and intent to use it with the fry. It is fairly hard, TDS should be running about 180 this time of year and a ph of 8.2 after aging. Ph out of tap is 7.4 rising to 8.2 after four hours of aging. I am not expecting any water issues unless you see a red herring here?
Pat

Hello Pat,

New guy to the forum, who like you, is living in Central Florida (Orlando)... but using city water with about the same parameters as your wellwater.

After doing quite a bit of research on this forum and elsewhere regarding Hardness and pH, I am surprised to read that your discus are apparently living in Hardness 180 and pH 8.2 water. If so, then keeping discus will be easier than I have expected.

Any info is greatly appreciated,

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

Hello Pat,

New guy to the forum, who like you, is living in Central Florida (Orlando)... but using city water with about the same parameters as your wellwater.

After doing quite a bit of research on this forum and elsewhere regarding Hardness and pH, I am surprised to read that your discus are apparently living in Hardness 180 and pH 8.2 water. If so, then keeping discus will be easier than I have expected.

Any info is greatly appreciated,

Tom

Hi Tom and welcome to Simply. :D I have no issues with keeping domestic discus in my well water. I do run my water thru a high pass sediment/carbon block prior to use. I suspect you will not have to do that.
Pat

[taneal1]

Hi Tom and welcome to Simply. :D
Thanks, Pat.


I have no issues with keeping domestic discus in my well water.
Those are spectacular "wilds" in your profile. Are you conditioning your well water for these?

I'm currently gathering enough knowledge to start my first discus tank. The flashy domestic breeds don't interest me at all - I'd prefer a tank full of pure Heckels. For a first-time discus owner the required water conditions might exceed my capabilities, so I thought I should acquire some hands-on experience first.

Tank-born and raised "Red Ica Heckels" from Mac's Discus should allow me to have the Heckels I want without the soft low pH water issues. That's my plan at the moment.

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tom,

I have recently stepped back into wilds and currently have wild heckels and some wild reds plus the domestic fry I am growing out for our current growout contest. Currently my wilds are in my well water. However I prefer to keep them in a RO/tap mix.

I see you are considering Mac's Discus. I did a google search for him and seems he only has "mixed pack" available. Most of his stuff seems "out of stock" and did not see any "Red Ica Heckels". The only thing I found on his FB page was this by Juan Carlos Garcia Valladares "I bought some green discus from this guy Steve, I pay way over the fish is worth, The fish is growing now healthy, but the only problem they do not look like Green discus, They are red turquoise not green, very dissapointed, I wrote a follow up review on his reviews he did ignored never posted, what it tells you he is not honest with review if less than 4 stars he will trash it! do your homework in buying fish ,If you want authentic color fish go to Uncle's sams discus.. higher price big fish the right color you want.. I will never buy fish from Macs.." https://www.facebook.com/pg/Macs-Discus-1469988533248668/posts/?ref=page_internal. I guess I would suggest doing your homework with this guy.

Also please read thru this thread on Simply before buying http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?63483-opinions-on-Mac-s-discus.

Pat

[taneal1]

I see you are considering Mac's Discus. I did a google search for him and seems he only has "mixed pack" available. Most of his stuff seems "out of stock" and did not see any "Red Ica Heckels".

I emailed him to inquire what he currently has, or usually gets for Heckels. He responded that he gets tank-bred "Red Ica Heckels" but he won't have another batch until January. I told him that was fine as I am still researching.


The only thing I found on his FB page was this by Juan Carlos Garcia Valladares "I bought some green discus from this guy Steve ... They are red turquoise not green. I will never buy fish from Macs.." I guess I would suggest doing your homework with this guy.

Thanks for checking him out, Pat. Doesn't sound like a place I want to do biz with.

The sponsors listed for this site don't have much in the way of "Wilds" - especially Heckels. What do you think of Jack Wattley? He has most of the 'wilds' and
some Heckels. The Heckels are 5"-6" and a bit more expensive than I'd like. I'd prefer to get 3" to keep the price down. Since this will be my first discus tank, I may lose them all...

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

Tom, if you do decide to go with Mac's Discus ask for pictures of the tank with the fish he would be selling you to ensure you are getting what you want.

I have no personal knowledge of Jack Wattley discus so really can not comment. One of our sponsor's does carry wilds and has heckels and his name is Jimmy's Discus. I think you need to consider on whether you are looking for actually wild heckels or a domestic/heckel cross. Finding small wild heckels is not easy.

Pat

[taneal1]

Tom, if you do decide to go with Mac's Discus ask for pictures of the tank with the fish he would be selling you to ensure you are getting what you want.
Excellent advice, Pat. I'll do that if I go with him. Unless I can find some positive info on him, I won't be buying there.


One of our sponsor's does carry wilds and has heckels and his name is Jimmy's Discus.
Thanks, Pat. I have contacted Jimmy. He suggested I go with 4"-5" Heckels as a minimum size because they will be my first discus. He currently has "Blue Face Heckel Nova Airao" for $95.00. These would do, and the price seems good. The best looking discus that I have seen are labeled "Cuipeua Wild Blue discus" and these would be my first choice - IF I can find them...


I think you need to consider on whether you are looking for actually wild heckels or a domestic/heckel cross.
Absolutely. My goal has always been: 8-10 Wild Heckels in a 100 gallon tank with soft-acid water. The problem is HOW to get there. It seems that domestic PURE Heckels are not available, so I will need to go with a soft-acid tank for them. Given this, I've decided to stick with the Wilds only - no domestics.

From your experience, are Heckels "more difficult" to keep than Greens or Browns? If so, do you think I should start with these and after gaining adequate experience maintaining the water at the correct pH, hardness, etc. only then move on to the Heckels?


Finding small wild heckels is not easy.
Unsurprisingly, you are correct. I thought I had seen 3" Heckels for sale, but looking back at these sites I realize they are indeed *Wild* discus, but not Heckels.

BTW, how many "barrels" do you use for your RO/aged tap water mix for water changes? I'm planning my setup right now, and assuming that I can get a single barrel that will hold the required gallons for a water change, I think I will need 2 barrels at a minimum. The first barrel would contain dechlorinated, outgassed water with the appropriate number of gallons for the tank size and percent water change planned. Aged water from barrel #1 would pass through the RO/DI unit into the second barrel until it contains the required number of gallons. It would then be pumped back into barrel #1. This mixed RO/tap water would then be used to conduct the water change. Does this sound feasible to you?

Thanks for any info,

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

Tom,

Before getting all caught up in low ph tanks let's first learn about your water. First measure TDS, ph, kH and GH. Determine if you have a ph swing when you age your water (with aeration). My ph is 7.4 coming out of the tap but it rises to 8.2 after aging for four hours.

Personally I have a dedicated RO container and I pump the RO water to a mixing container where I adding 2/3 RO to 1/3 tap and age (with aeration and heat) it there. You will want the water to be well mixed. But lets learn about your water first and go from there.

Pat

[taneal1]

Before getting all caught up in low ph tanks let's first learn about your water. First measure TDS, ph, kH and GH. Determine if you have a ph swing when you age your water (with aeration). My ph is 7.4 coming out of the tap but it rises to 8.2 after aging for four hours.
My test kit is old and doesn't test for all the necessary parameters. Can you recommend a specific test kit that will test all the necessary parameters?

A trip across the street (literally) to the Pool Store yielded:
24 hour aged: pH=7.8 TDS="300ppm" "calcium hardness"=125ppm "total alkalinity"=120ppm
straight from the tap: pH=7.4ppm
Mostly I was looking for the pH change after outgassing, and I expected a bigger pH change. As expected the water is definitely NOT soft.

Thanks, Pat!

[Second Hand Pat]

My test kit is old and doesn't test for all the necessary parameters. Can you recommend a specific test kit that will test all the necessary parameters?

A trip across the street (literally) to the Pool Store yielded:
24 hour aged: pH=7.8 TDS="300ppm" "calcium hardness"=125ppm "total alkalinity"=120ppm
straight from the tap: pH=7.4ppm
Mostly I was looking for the pH change after outgassing, and I expected a bigger pH change. As expected the water is definitely NOT soft.

Thanks, Pat!

Tom, I would suggest the API Master test kit and the API KH/GH test kit. BTW my heckels are in my tap water ATM. I need to make a new video.


http://youtu.be/QEUrk2RZDHo

[taneal1]

Tom, I would suggest the API Master test kit and the API KH/GH test kit.
My local stores don't carry the API KH/GH test kit, so I ordered online.


BTW my heckels are in my tap water ATM.
Tap water? YIKES!

Beautiful fish, just beautiful.

Putting aside the species, subspecies, variant debate, when you are purchasing *Wilds,* how many varieties do you accept?

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

My local stores don't carry the API KH/GH test kit, so I ordered online.


Tap water? YIKES!

Beautiful fish, just beautiful.

Putting aside the species, subspecies, variant debate, when you are purchasing *Wilds,* how many varieties do you accept?

Tom

Hi Tom, wilds are defined in three major groups; wild brown/blue, wild greens and wild heckels. I guess your first choice is which of the three groups do you prefer. However the most likely scenario is your choice will be limited to what is available. Personally I prefer to get a group which comes from the same location.
Pat

[taneal1]

Hello Pat,


Hi Tom, wilds are defined in three major groups; wild brown/blue, wild greens and wild heckels.
Yes. I was wondering which of these 3 groups you would put your Manacapuru Reds in... and the other "reds


I guess your first choice is which of the three groups do you prefer. However the most likely scenario is your choice will be limited to what is available. Personally I prefer to get a group which comes from the same location.
After going through the many sellers, the available selection of wilds has been disappointing.

Tom

[danotaylor]

I was wondering which of these 3 groups you would put your Manacapuru Reds in... and the other "reds
Tom
I believe they belong in the "blue/brown" group Tom

[taneal1]

I believe they belong in the "blue/brown" group Tom

Thanks Daniel,

That's been my assumption - just wondering what others think. Given the number of specified wild "reds," I'm surprised the group isn't identified as Brown/Blue/Red. Or just "Brown" with variations.

Tom

[Second Hand Pat]

I think a purist would simply call the group Browns.
Pat

[Mando]

I emailed him to inquire what he currently has, or usually gets for Heckels. He responded that he gets tank-bred "Red Ica Heckels" but he won't have another batch until January. I told him that was fine as I am still researching.



Thanks for checking him out, Pat. Doesn't sound like a place I want to do biz with.

The sponsors listed for this site don't have much in the way of "Wilds" - especially Heckels. What do you think of Jack Wattley? He has most of the 'wilds' and
some Heckels. The Heckels are 5"-6" and a bit more expensive than I'd like. I'd prefer to get 3" to keep the price down. Since this will be my first discus tank, I may lose them all...

Tom

Ever since I had my bad experience with the "discus guys" I started to purchase all my discus from Jack Wattley. However, I had to medicate my current batch of fry. Fortunately, I can tell you that he does go out of his way to fix the issues. As soon as I told him my fish had some type of fungus, I texted him and he immediately prepared a formaldehyde concoction and he gave it to me free of charge. I can text him whenever and he answers almost instantly. His customer services exceeds most companies that I have dealt with.

I must say that he does get some nice looking wilds.

[taneal1]

I think a purist would simply call the group Browns.
Pat

That's what I'm going to do.

[taneal1]

Ever since I had my bad experience with the "discus guys" I started to purchase all my discus from Jack Wattley. However, I had to medicate my current batch of fry. Fortunately, I can tell you that he does go out of his way to fix the issues. As soon as I told him my fish had some type of fungus, I texted him and he immediately prepared a formaldehyde concoction and he gave it to me free of charge. I can text him whenever and he answers almost instantly. His customer services exceeds most companies that I have dealt with.

I must say that he does get some nice looking wilds.


Thanks Mando,

Your info is VERY much appreciated. Did you purchase some fry from Wattley? What size were they?

Tom