New to discus

[Mikecup]

Hello everyone I just joined this forum and this is my first post.

I have a 125gal heavily planted with co2 injected. I just purchased 14 small 2-3 inch discus, 2 died and one is on its side but still breathing.
I purchased the fish from a company called David’s aquariums USA Corp. they are in Texas I’m in Ohio. They came shipped in a small box, they were lined up like index cards in thick type sandwich bags with about a 1/4 cup of water in each bag, I thought it was odd packaging.

I did not quarantine the fish, I just don’t have another tank. My question is what should I do with the struggling fish, I’m worried he may have a disease and infect the other fish, or should I just wait and maybe he is just stressed and will come around. The other fish in the tank look healthy, I have 11 discus, 15 cardinals and 8 German blue rams. The discus have been in the tank for 2 days, the other fish 30 days.

[melita]

What are you water premiers ,?.

[Paul Sabucchi]

Hi and welcome to Simply Discus, hope you had a nice Christmas - disappointment with the new discus aside. If you have browsed this forum you will have gathared that discus are less forgiving than most other ornamental freshwater fish when they are not bred, raised, shipped and kept the way they require. Maybe other forum members have some information about the seller and the quality of his fish but the way they were shipped does not bode well about his standards. Photos and videos and further information about your fish and tank would help to evaluate the situation, please open a new thread of your own in the Emergency Room section where you can copy, paste and fill in the questionnaire http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?38545-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete
This helps to get as much information all in one place without it being fragmented in several posts.
If you have not done so already you could read the stickies in the Beginner section and watch Al's video. Glad you have joined the discus-keeping fraternity and this forum, wishing you a Happy New Year

[Mikecup]

What are you water premiers ,?.

0 ammonia 0 nitrite just a trace of nitrates ph 7.5 temp 83

[Mikecup]

Thanks Paul, My Christmas was great thanks! Hope yours was good also.
Well good news the discus that was on his side is up and swimming, I fed all the fish but I did not see him eat, I hope he will recover, he’s a beautiful yellow. I’m trying to post a pic of my tank, but it keeps saying download failed. Maybe I’m doing something wrong.

[14Discus]

A couple of thoughts.....
Maybe your pics are too large and my need cropping.
I’d be running my temps at 86 or 87 instead of 83.
Imo, the supplier did not ship the fish correctly. I have, admittedly, never shipped fish, but what I’ve received we’re done with much better packaging. Did the box have heat packs? 1/4 cup of water is way too small, especially if not supplied w pure oxygen, which I doubt was the case with ziplock/sandwich bags.

[danotaylor]

G'day Mike and welcome. Pics have to be <2MB to load to the site.
I live in Cincy. Whereabouts in Ohio are you?

[Mikecup]

G'day Mike and welcome. Pics have to be <2MB to load to the site.
I live in Cincy. Whereabouts in Ohio are you?
I’m up north in a city called peninsula, just north of Akron. I just took the pic with my iPad, not sure how many mb it would be, maybe to large.

[Mikecup]

14 discus,
I’ll raise the temp some, I’m just worried my plants may not like it.
That supplier David’s aquarium just want to save money on the shipping, they charged me $95 shipping, the shipping box I received had $53 on it, so I got taken on that for sure.

[Mikecup]

120598
Hopefully that looks ok.

[Altum Nut]

Welcome Mike.
First of all I have to say WOW you sure have a talent with planted tanks.
With this show setup I would have opted to get adult Discus. Your Temps were fine at 83 and know your plants may not tolerate higher heat. Discus of this size require more attention with many feedings and water-changes to maintain water quality. A quarantine period of a minimal 4+ weeks should have been a priority to avoid any cross contamination to your other species.
At this point we are aware you have no other tank so all you can do is observe if they eat and color of feces they extract.
As suggested by Paul in post #3...the questionnaire is important http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...lease-complete

...Ralph

[14Discus]

14 discus,
I’ll raise the temp some, I’m just worried my plants may not like it.
That supplier David’s aquarium just want to save money on the shipping, they charged me $95 shipping, the shipping box I received had $53 on it, so I got taken on that for sure.

Mikecup,

Higher temps will help the fish. Certain plants can tolerate higher temps too like Anubis, Hygrophyllia, Java Fern, and Amazon Sword. I, too, tried to consider plants, but soon realized that my fish had to trump the plants. Too bad abt the shipping conditions.
You didn’t ask me, but when next you buy fish, go with Kenny Cheung. He is my go to man for fish......super quality fish, great packing, and totally awesome service.

[Mikecup]

Ralph,
Yes I know these are small discus, I will be monitoring them closely, I did notice yesterday one of the discus, the struggling one has no tail fin, or I should say a very short one, why I don’t know, I don’t think the other fish are nipping at him, the ones I have in there are peaceful. I hope it grows back quickly.
I’m going to buy a 29 gallon tank today for a quarantine tank, I’m getting more community fish on Friday. I will quarantine those, I ordered some medication also.

[bluelagoon]

Bottom line:::Tank looks really nice,but small discus will not do very well in a complex set up as this one.Dairy cleaning of the substrate looks to be impossible.

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, as a side note generally fish are shipped in bags which should be sized for the fish and you generally have the bag 1/3 (max) filled with water and the rest filled with oxygen. The challengers may remember how little water the fry were shipped in. Now sandwich bags are not appropriate for shipping.
Pat

[tonytheboss1]

:computer: Welcome & Happy New Year!! Right out the gate I can tell you there will be varying opinions as to the viability of heavily planted tanks & juvies. (Your tank is awesome btw.) Personally, I was unsuccessful & finally gave in after suffering multiple loses. The pristine environment required for juvies to THRIVE is extremely difficult to maintain in a heavily planted tank. Adults are far better suited for the show tank you presently have. That said, all is not lost. First, slightly raising the temp. will benefit the discus greatly. My happy medium between plants & discus was 85/86 degrees. Second, your feeding regimen will be a challenge. Much food will be scattered amongst the plants, substrate & ornaments instead of their little bellies. Third, (& probably most important) multiple daily WC's!!! It's a necessity for the water to be changed & the gunk to be removed multiple times if you want large healthy adults from these juvies. I'm not one of those predicters of doom but I do like to present some of the facts as I see them. Best of luck to you & keep asking questions. We're all here for ya. "T"

[Pices]

Mikecup,
What a beautiful tank. I would sure love knowing more about those containers suction cupped to the glass. I’d like to try it. I’ve had no luck with planted discus tanks. As someone who started out the same way, (bad stock, planted tank, little discus) I fear you may eventually have to decide between substrate and baby discus. It’s hard for seasoned discus keepers who start with hardy stock and from the sound of it, your source, well let’s just say I doubt he gets many repeat customers. Please keep us posted with your progress. If you could overcome these problems, you’d have a big fan base here!
Patty

[Mikecup]

Well I wasn’t originally going to have a heavily planted tank, my tank took 3 months to finally cycle, fishless cycle. I just wanted something in there to look at besides the rocks. So I bought many plants, the suction planters I bought on amazon.
I have a lot of filtration on this tank, a fluval fx6, sun sun hw3000, both canister filters are loaded with bio home ultimate and 2 hob filters a seachem tidal 110 and a just added penguin 350. Im also using seachem discus trace elements.
A newbie question for everyone, if I have 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates, ph at 7.4, fish all eating and look happy, why do a water change?

[Altum Nut]

Same newbie question asked over and over....Yes your plants will assist with water quality but the answer is simply your Discus health and growth that will suffer. Next will be a new thread in the Disease/Sickness and Medication sticky. Many Discus diseases are associated with poor water quality.
There may be a further scientific analyses some on board may chime in with but if you browse that sticky the answer is most commonly caused by lack of water-changes.

...Ralph

[Mikecup]

Thanks Ralph, I guess I’m just trying to figure out why change the water if all the perimeters are excellent. Yes I’m new at the discus and community fish but from what I have read, the main reason to do a water change is to lower nitrates, if my nitrates are 0 or very close, what benefit would changing the water do for my tank? I would think my water quality is already excellent. Maybe I’m missing something.

[14Discus]

Mike up,

Not to horn in on your discussion with Altum Nut, but WCs are necessary....maybe not daily, but replacing old good water with fresh good water is indeed crucial.
I can see why you think as you do, but there is more to “good” water than the Nitrogen Cycle. Your TDS levels, KH, GH, Potassium, and more also factor into healthy fish as well. For example.....if you add water to your good water that evaporated, you will likely have changes in mineral levels as well as TDS levels. Such changes are surely going to be detrimental to the fish in the long run. In addition to my Discus tank, I even do WCs with my community tank of Gouramis, Tetras, Platies, and Angel in which no Discus are in. Water changes are considered to be required for virtually all fishkeeping these days. I have done fish for decades and remember the old school ways of not advocating WCs..:(. Lastly......if you do no WCs, your NO3 levels will rise down the road.....guaranteed. WCs are the ticket to a good foundation of fish husbandry. If you wait to do WCs until you have ultra high TDS levels or Nitrate, it will be harder to get the water to desired parameters, whereas if you routinely do WCs, such drastic conditions are much less likely to occur and your fish will have the greatest living environment.....that of stability/consistency. Remember.....that what water is good today with life in it will surely degrade or become worse if not replaced.

It’s like this...sort of......
Take a shower today and you’ll feel great. Tomorrow w no shower, you’ll feel good. Day after tomorrow w no shower, you’ll maybe feel ok. What will you feel like after two weeks wo a shower? Fish are similar in that water that’s fine today will be much less so in a two weeks or a month wo a change of some of their water. Sorry for this goofy analogy, but when you said “Maybe I’m missing something”, I felt compelled to state my thinking in two different ways.

I hope I did offend anyone or improperly state reasons for WCs, but sharing like this is what Forums are for as I’ve learned much from them and will continue to do so. Btw.....HNY to all.

[Mikecup]

Mike up,

Not to horn in on your discussion with Altum Nut, but WCs are necessary....maybe not daily, but replacing old good water with fresh good water is indeed crucial.
I can see why you think as you do, but there is more to “good” water than the Nitrogen Cycle. Your TDS levels, KH, GH, Potassium, and more also factor into healthy fish as well. For example.....if you add water to your good water that evaporated, you will likely have changes in mineral levels as well as TDS levels. Such changes are surely going to be detrimental to the fish in the long run. In addition to my Discus tank, I even do WCs with my community tank of Gouramis, Tetras, Platies, and Angel in which no Discus are in. Water changes are considered to be required for virtually all fishkeeping these days. I have done fish for decades and remember the old school ways of not advocating WCs..:(. Lastly......if you do no WCs, your NO3 levels will rise down the road.....guaranteed. WCs are the ticket to a good foundation of fish husbandry. If you wait to do WCs until you have ultra high TDS levels or Nitrate, it will be harder to get the water to desired parameters, whereas if you routinely do WCs, such drastic conditions are much less likely to occur and your fish will have the greatest living environment.....that of stability/consistency. Remember.....that what water is good today with life in it will surely degrade or become worse if not replaced.

It’s like this...sort of......
Take a shower today and you’ll feel great. Tomorrow w no shower, you’ll feel good. Day after tomorrow w no shower, you’ll maybe feel ok. What will you feel like after two weeks wo a shower? Fish are similar in that water that’s fine today will be much less so in a two weeks or a month wo a change of some of their water. Sorry for this goofy analogy, but when you said “Maybe I’m missing something”, I felt compelled to state my thinking in two different ways.

I hope I did offend anyone or improperly state reasons for WCs, but sharing like this is what Forums are for as I’ve learned much from them and will continue to do so. Btw.....HNY to all.

Thank you for the information, I will always do water changes, and I agree fresh water is always good.

[Mando]

Hey, Mike. Welcome to the forum! Ideally, you would want to grow out your discus in a smaller tank and BB. However, since your feet are wet already, you can only move forward with what you have unless you go out and buy a smaller 30g.

That being said, you can still grow out a nice group of discus given your circumstances, however, make it easier on your self and remove any other fish in the tank. These 2-3 inch discus can stress beyond belief with other tank mates. Trust me, my first batch was my learning experience and I would hate for you to go through what I went. I lost 8 Marlboros and 3 other mixed discus.

One thing that helps me is that I always feed from the same spot. It helped condition the fish to always meet me in that corner and it helps to maintain the tank a bit cleaner. I have sinking pellets, flakes, and I also feed Al's black worms which stick to the glass; I do not have a mess around the tank. You'll want these discus to eat at least 3 times a day and this will compromise your water quality; Hence the daily water changes. I am currently doing 2x85% water changes a day for my discus. In less than 2 1/2 months my fry are just above the 3.5 inch mark.

oddly enough, I love your suction plant pots. I might get a few now to add some plants to my BB. Hope you enjoy your grow out; you have a stunning tank. I'm with you on this journey so don't hesitate to ask questions; we are a friendly bunch.

[Mikecup]

Hey, Mike. Welcome to the forum! Ideally, you would want to grow out your discus in a smaller tank and BB. However, since your feet are wet already, you can only move forward with what you have unless you go out and buy a smaller 30g.

That being said, you can still grow out a nice group of discus given your circumstances, however, make it easier on your self and remove any other fish in the tank. These 2-3 inch discus can stress beyond belief with other tank mates. Trust me, my first batch was my learning experience and I would hate for you to go through what I went. I lost 8 Marlboros and 3 other mixed discus.

One thing that helps me is that I always feed from the same spot. It helped condition the fish to always meet me in that corner and it helps to maintain the tank a bit cleaner. I have sinking pellets, flakes, and I also feed Al's black worms which stick to the glass; I do not have a mess around the tank. You'll want these discus to eat at least 3 times a day and this will compromise your water quality; Hence the daily water changes. I am currently doing 2x85% water changes a day for my discus. In less than 2 1/2 months my fry are just above the 3.5 inch mark.

oddly enough, I love your suction plant pots. I might get a few now to add some plants to my BB. Hope you enjoy your grow out; you have a stunning tank. I'm with you on this journey so don't hesitate to ask questions; we are a friendly bunch.

Thank I appreciate it. Wow that’s a lot of water changes, I take it your using tap water that you treat with declorinator, yes my feet are wet for sure. The fish I have in there seem peaceful to the discus, I actually have a discus that’s chasing the other discus around, hopefully that will stop.

[Mando]

Thank I appreciate it. Wow that’s a lot of water changes, I take it your using tap water that you treat with declorinator, yes my feet are wet for sure. The fish I have in there seem peaceful to the discus, I actually have a discus that’s chasing the other discus around, hopefully that will stop.

I age my tap water in a 55g drum for 24 hours, but I still dechlorinate. I'm doing the daily 2x85% change on my 30g breeder grow out tank. Main tank sees about 2x50% changes a week sometimes just one 80% a week.

[Mikecup]

I age my tap water in a 55g drum for 24 hours, but I still dechlorinate. I'm doing the daily 2x85% change on my 30g breeder grow out tank. Main tank sees about 2x50% changes a week sometimes just one 80% a week.

I’m new to the discus fish, I’m just curious why you change the water so frequently, I would think the water you are removing is the same as the new water as far as perimeters go. I have had my fish for about 2 weeks now, and I have done one 30% water change, water perimeters are perfect. Fish look and act fine. I’m just asking

[Mando]

I’m new to the discus fish, I’m just curious why you change the water so frequently, I would think the water you are removing is the same as the new water as far as perimeters go. I have had my fish for about 2 weeks now, and I have done one 30% water change, water perimeters are perfect. Fish look and act fine. I’m just asking

Fresh water is always cleaner than your current water. See Bryan's thread from the growout challenge and you will see how important it is to offer the cleanest water possible.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?133620-Bryan-s-Grow-Out-Challenge-Thread-2018

[Mikecup]

yes that’s an interesting thread. Sounds like a full time job though. I will continue to do 30% water changes weekly and see how it goes, I’m just keeping fish as a hobby and something nice to look at in the evening after work. I may start feeding them twice a day instead of once on day though. So far they are doing fine. Beautiful fish.

[Mando]

yes that’s an interesting thread. Sounds like a full time job though. I will continue to do 30% water changes weekly and see how it goes, I’m just keeping fish as a hobby and something nice to look at in the evening after work. I may start feeding them twice a day instead of once on day though. So far they are doing fine. Beautiful fish.

you will love them! I sure do. And, although it's a lot of water changes, I enjoy it and it's part of my routine. I simply drain the tank in the mornings as I get ready for work and then watch the news as it fills. Eventually, everything will be automated.

[Mikecup]

Yes I need to get a better routine for changing the water, I have the python setup but it doesn’t thread on to my delta faucet, I bought another faucet I just have to change it, will make the water changes a little less cumbersome.

[tonytheboss1]

if my nitrates are 0 or very close, what benefit would changing the water do for my tank? I would think my water quality is already excellent. Maybe I’m missing something.


:computer: Somewhat common misconception. Having -0- nitrates at your present test point is deceiving. Right now your large volume (125g) & heavily planted tank is assisting somewhat in controlling that parameter. Nitrates are constantly on the rise. How much & how fast is subjective. No two tanks 'creep' the same. Good tank husbandry is a requirement for discus to THRIVE.When they are young & growing, fresh water is like spinach to Popeye. It makes them big & strong. Controlling the nitrate 'creep' is best done by WC's. The more the better to keep that parameter low low. Those w/ OCD like myself sometimes go a bit overboard but the result will be spectacular, I promise. Young discus & WC's go hand in hand. You can ease back a bit after they are grown but WC's will always be your best friend. BTW there are products & contraptions on the market that 'claim to control' nitrates. I can't say yay or nay but you'll never go wrong with WC's!! "T"

[Mando]

:computer: Somewhat common misconception. Having -0- nitrates at your present test point is deceiving. Right now your large volume (125g) & heavily planted tank is assisting somewhat in controlling that parameter. Nitrates are constantly on the rise. How much & how fast is subjective. No two tanks 'creep' the same. Good tank husbandry is a requirement for discus to THRIVE.When they are young & growing, fresh water is like spinach to Popeye. It makes them big & strong. Controlling the nitrate 'creep' is best done by WC's. The more the better to keep that parameter low low. Those w/ OCD like myself sometimes go a bit overboard but the result will be spectacular, I promise. Young discus & WC's go hand in hand. You can ease back a bit after they are grown but WC's will always be your best friend. BTW there are products & contraptions on the market that 'claim to control' nitrates. I can't say yay or nay but you'll never go wrong with WC's!! "T"

well said!

[eugenefish]

:computer: Somewhat common misconception. Having -0- nitrates at your present test point is deceiving. Right now your large volume (125g) & heavily planted tank is assisting somewhat in controlling that parameter. Nitrates are constantly on the rise. How much & how fast is subjective. No two tanks 'creep' the same. Good tank husbandry is a requirement for discus to THRIVE.When they are young & growing, fresh water is like spinach to Popeye. It makes them big & strong. Controlling the nitrate 'creep' is best done by WC's. The more the better to keep that parameter low low. Those w/ OCD like myself sometimes go a bit overboard but the result will be spectacular, I promise. Young discus & WC's go hand in hand. You can ease back a bit after they are grown but WC's will always be your best friend. BTW there are products & contraptions on the market that 'claim to control' nitrates. I can't say yay or nay but you'll never go wrong with WC's!! "T"

Totally agree with you Tony. WC is the best friend for discus to keep them strong and healthy.

[Mikecup]

Yes I agree, my nitrates are always almost 0, could be the plants are absorbing some of the nitrates.
These juvenile fish I have seem to have some sort of personality, I have 11 in my tank, there only 2-3 inches, but they follow me when I’m near the tank, I don’t think there hungry, I worry about feeding them to much. I have been feeding them twice a day.

[Mando]

Yes I agree, my nitrates are always almost 0, could be the plants are absorbing some of the nitrates.
These juvenile fish I have seem to have some sort of personality, I have 11 in my tank, there only 2-3 inches, but they follow me when I’m near the tank, I don’t think there hungry, I worry about feeding them to much. I have been feeding them twice a day.

they are always hungry. I'd give more than 2 times a day. I feed up to 7 times a day (small portions) when i'm home on the weekends. Mon-Fri they eat 4-5 times a day.

[eugenefish]

Hey, Mike. Welcome to the forum! Ideally, you would want to grow out your discus in a smaller tank and BB. However, since your feet are wet already, you can only move forward with what you have unless you go out and buy a smaller 30g.

That being said, you can still grow out a nice group of discus given your circumstances, however, make it easier on your self and remove any other fish in the tank. These 2-3 inch discus can stress beyond belief with other tank mates. Trust me, my first batch was my learning experience and I would hate for you to go through what I went. I lost 8 Marlboros and 3 other mixed discus.

One thing that helps me is that I always feed from the same spot. It helped condition the fish to always meet me in that corner and it helps to maintain the tank a bit cleaner. I have sinking pellets, flakes, and I also feed Al's black worms which stick to the glass; I do not have a mess around the tank. You'll want these discus to eat at least 3 times a day and this will compromise your water quality; Hence the daily water changes. I am currently doing 2x85% water changes a day for my discus. In less than 2 1/2 months my fry are just above the 3.5 inch mark.

oddly enough, I love your suction plant pots. I might get a few now to add some plants to my BB. Hope you enjoy your grow out; you have a stunning tank. I'm with you on this journey so don't hesitate to ask questions; we are a friendly bunch.

Same boat here Mando. I do 2x90% water changes a day for my baby discus (21 of them). Within 4 months, even the smallest one reach over 4.5 inches and they are super healthy begging for food all day long.

[tonytheboss1]

I will continue to do 30% water changes weekly and see how it goes, I’m just keeping fish as a hobby and something nice to look at in the evening after work. I may start feeding them twice a day instead of once on day though. So far they are doing fine. Beautiful fish.

:computer: This I can tell you for sure, if you increase the WC's & increase the feeding schedule your discus will thank you!! lol Juvies really need to eat a lot at this stage (3-4 tpd). You're treating them like adults. This is their time to GROW & nothing does it better than plenty of quality food & plenty of clean water. Now I see why your nitrates are holding. You really should up the food intake or risk possibly stunting your little ones. There are those (OCD like me) who might say 5 or 6 tpd is the order. 3 or 4 meals should do them just fine at least to the sub-adult stage. YES, it's gonna require more time & more work & more money but they are so worth it imho!!! "T"

[Mikecup]

It seems I’m not feeding them enough, I was worried about over feeding, it does seem like they are always hungry. I don’t have a problem with more water changes, but I’m not ready for 2 a day water changes yet, I just don’t have the time. I will start doing 2 maybe 3 wc a week, just to keep everything fresh.

[Mando]

It seems I’m not feeding them enough, I was worried about over feeding, it does seem like they are always hungry. I don’t have a problem with more water changes, but I’m not ready for 2 a day water changes yet, I just don’t have the time. I will start doing 2 maybe 3 wc a week, just to keep everything fresh.

Yea start off with 2-3 a week and you should be fine. 2 daiky water changes are excessive but it’s only through the growout period. I’m slowing my water changes soon. At about 4-4.5” i’ll stop. And like I said, my main tank sees 1-2 a week.

[bluelagoon]

My thoughts are if you planning on raising young discus in such a big,planted,O2 injected with substrate.You had better be up for a lot of work to keep things pristine enough to grow out healthy looking discus.I think you'll be buying discus every 4 or 5 months.They should live that long in your set up with you correct husbandry,maybe longer but not healthy.They are not your average tropical fish and if treated as such there will be issues down the road.So,IMO if you're going to raise young discus,this is not the tank to do it in to be successful/rewarding.

[Combo]

Well I wasn’t originally going to have a heavily planted tank, my tank took 3 months to finally cycle, fishless cycle. I just wanted something in there to look at besides the rocks. So I bought many plants, the suction planters I bought on amazon.
I have a lot of filtration on this tank, a fluval fx6, sun sun hw3000, both canister filters are loaded with bio home ultimate and 2 hob filters a seachem tidal 110 and a just added penguin 350. Im also using seachem discus trace elements.
A newbie question for everyone, if I have 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates, ph at 7.4, fish all eating and look happy, why do a water change?

hello, i am also new to discus and one thing i was told about wter changes is the discus will pull and use the minerals out of the water so do water changes so the fish can get more minerals to grow