New wiggles success

[Lewjo11]

I finally have succeeded! Wiggles. It's been a solid day. They have taken the wigglers and moved them from one side of the cone to the other. Yesterday I did a half tank water change right before the hatches. Last 3 days I turned the tank light off at night and used a dim desk lamp on the floor pointed at the tank. Now the wigglers possible over 100-300? Are crazy the parents are extra busy picking them up and spitting them back on the cone. Tank is set at 28.5C. Tank is 29g and I'm using a over tank filter set on low and a sponge xlarge.

1) tank looks a little cloudy change water?
2) tank is full to top when to lower the level
3) should I raise the temperature
4)should I remove the hanging filter?
5) turn the dim lamp on? I am leaving the tank light on cause they are really wiggling crazy they are falling on cone.

Any other advice. I know I have to lower the water level and remove the over hanging filter but when is the best time. I do have 2 cycles sponge filters on cycle standby..in the my 90g.

[Filip]

Congrats Lewjo .I can imagine the excitement having wrigglers for the first time.
I will leave answers to your questions to the experienced breeders and I will keep my fingers crossed for your first baby discus .Good luck

[Lewjo11]

I am now worried. I forgot to plug the.top of the cone. The wigglers are all racing to the top. I fear the will fall in

[Filip]

I am now worried. I forgot to plug the.top of the cone. The wigglers are all racing to the top. I fear the will fall in

Stuff it with sponge or floss until you think of better solution

[Lewjo11]

Woke up and still have a bunch of Wiggler's. Hope someone can help out. .the Wiggler's are still near the very top my main worry is the hole on the cone and the tank is dirty on the sides and in...hate to disturb them..when's a good time

[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

BTW decided to clean the tank. Took the risk.

[SNap0283]

Okay a few things. First off very nice looking pair. Is this their first batch of wigglers? If so they will probably eat them anyway. Its rare to get first time parents to raise them all the way up, so if it happens don't stress over it. Next up stick a cotton ball in the top of the cone so they don't get lost in there. After these wigglers pull the pot out and use superglue and a piece of plastic to seal the hole. Next tip, a clean tank is always worth the disturbance. I would wipe the sides down. Maybe 1 side a day so the water doesn't get too full of gunk. Keep up on the water changes but don't drop the water level below where they are on the cone. If you fill the tank up you can probably still change 50% before getting to the cone. I would only use the sponge filter on a breeder tank. That sponge is more then enough to handle the pair with 50% daily water changes.

As for lowering the water level and all that, you probably will have to. You need to start worrying about attaching once they start wandering away from the cone on their own. The parents for a certain amount of time will try to keep the on the cone, and then they will give up and at that point the babies need to attach and if they don't you need to try things like lowering the tank level and playing with the light. They are a very light pair and attaching might be tricky. First up I would tape white paper on 3 sides of the tank to make the parents stand out even more to the babies. Also I recommend using the search function on the site. This topic has been discussed many times and you will find dozens of tips people have used to get free swimmers to attach to light pigeon or albino parents. Reading through 15 years of accumulated knowledge on this site will give you much better information then just a few answers people will leave in this thread.

[CliffsDiscus]

Wow, Congrats looks like they might be free swimming in a couple days.

Cliff

[Lewjo11]

Well tank sides are horrible. I did a bucket change this morning. And added two buckets!. I left the house. Just got home and now there are no Wiggler's on the cone. Some are free swimming and many are in the black sponge filter. Need advice asap. I think they are to Young to free swimming and the parents are no where near the sponge...please. Help.. thank you

[Lewjo11]

This issue is I have about 100-200 Wiggler's all at the very top of the tank they are all cluttered in bunches. 5 10 all together. Only a few 10 at most near parents.. I've tried brushing them over to parents. So sometimes the part put them in there month and try to spit them of the glass I lowed the water to 2 inches above there swim level I took the cone out. Maybe they can attach... Hope one sponge gives them enough air.. I'm leaving soon and will not be back home till late tomorrow....fingers crossed

[SNap0283]

This is typical of new parents. There is not much you can do, give them the best conditions possible and cross your fingers. Its not unusual for it to take a dozen or more spawns before the parents get it right. I might look to finding a cheese cloth to put over the sponge filter so the dark sponge doesn't attract the babies as they try and find the parents.

[Lewjo11]

This is my tank now

[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

Is been like this since this time yesterday. I counted about 150 Wiggler's not attached to parents. Any advice they need cleaner water but maybe they can't see parents to attach

[RogueDiscus]

Change the water as best you can. Use a net or floss or something to avoid the fry. As close to same temp as possible ( a couple degrees). Wrap the tank in white paper. Leave a night light on in the room. You're getting the parents to be dark shadows to attract the fry. No guarantee, but a technique that might work somewhat. As parents get more experienced, I think they do more to herd the fry. It might just work out better next time around.

[CliffsDiscus]

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Can't see the fry in the picture. Are they still in clusters or are they swimming at the surface?

Cliff

[Lewjo11]

I decided to experiment. I got a bunch of empty glass jars and a small shot glass. I scooped up around 150 Wiggler's maybe more. Even off the black sponge. Then I emptied the tank till the parents are just upright. They did have around ten or so around there body .they are trying to block them. Yes most of them are swimming at the top. Temp was less the 1 degree C I think. It took time to scoop the up and pour them back. I added back a little more then I took out... Parents seen to be okay with me doing this. They still show concern. I left the lid off for now. I return every hour or so to scoop them up and pour them out between the parents.

[Lewjo11]

Does anyone think I should take the sponge filter out? I can throw it in another tank temp.

Are you saying I should turn all the lights out tonight and turn on my small lamp. My lamp is a dollar store one the shows extremely low light. Kinda a joke but it may work in this situation.

[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

I'm trying your idea. With black sponge filter in tank. Thinking about just taking it out since it's the darkest thing on the tank

[Second Hand Pat]

I think I remember someone using only moon lights for PB parents. The moon lights help to darken the parents since PBs can not darken on their own.
Pat

[Lewjo11]

Left the lamp on and although there not attached to parents they are near then and the parents are blocking them off. Not on the very top anymore. Still looking at over 100 Wiggler's . Strange they don't attached but many are on the glass. Parents are very cool and focused! I found about 10 plus wondering and a few on black sponge. I removed with a small shot glass and poured then between the parents. They don't mind at all an sometime put in there month and spit them on the glass

[Lewjo11]

I turned the light back on just to look for a few hours then I will turn it off and keep room darker. I have another tank near them also with possible breeders I will use that light only today. Hope they attach today

[CliffsDiscus]

I only have a 15 watt light at night, sometimes no light.

You might want to take out the sponge and lower the
air the fry tend to swim around the bubbles during
night time causing some lost.

Cliff

[Lewjo11]

I just have a sponge now. I added an air Stone and even at low they where drawn to it. At work now. Rolling with the other tanks light only. Seems like 90% of swimmers where being guarded well by parents. Others around tank and some on sponge. I think I'm lucky that the parents aren't scared I just scoop them up and pour the swimmers back in between the parents. Just wish my water was cleaner. Once they attach I will raise it up. I'm added a little prime 2 times a day hopefully that helps.

[Lewjo11]

Well the night before yesterday they finally attached is was heard work as I manually poured them between the two parents and was blessed they did scare. I lost many cause I dropped my nasty sponge filter in the tank while removing it and the tank got dark brown! And I added back another cycled sponge today. Today I have 8 that are attached. Will see what happens ... When is a good time to make the live brine shrimp? Do I have another week?

[CliffsDiscus]

How many days are the fry free swimming?

Cliff

[Lewjo11]

Well I'm down to 1 swimmer attached to one Parent. I moved the other out 2 days ago cause they where fighting and not sure what happen to the other 6. One isn't worth the effort but I'll leave it be to find out what happened to it. Maybe just let it feed of parent for a while. I believe many died due to the water condition. I may not have allowed the tank to cycle or the sponge was too dirty! Not expecting much form just one baby fry but will see

[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

How long can one swimmer live of a parent?
Weeks? Don't want to hatch live bb for one. Can I do something else. Frozen?

[Lewjo11]

As you can see in the picture the tail on parent is bad. Probably due to horrible water

[Maddie]

How long can one swimmer live of a parent?
Weeks? Don't want to hatch live bb for one. Can I do something else. Frozen?

I was in the same boat as you couple of months ago. My young neon sapphire pair had two wigglers on them. The parents didn't turn dark so the other wigglers kept going to the sponge filter. The parents were great but I decided to let the parents raise them a little bigger until I try BB. The parents wanted to breed again so they ate the two babies. I have not had wigglers since.

I was stuck in between like you. Too much work for just two babies.

[Pices]

I don’t have any advice but had to compliment you on that beautiful pair and the way you handled your situation by thinking out of the box. I think it may have been Sanjay (a member here) who put a blue light on the tank which made the parents look blue and the babies found them. I think that’s what Pat is referring to when she recommended the moon light.
Good luck with the next spawn!
Patty

[brewmaster15]

Lew, I'm late on the thread and sorry you lost your fry. They will probably lay again in the next 2 weeks.

Heres what I would do this time and theres many other ways that work but this is what I have done and do.

1)Let them breed again, once they lay and fertilze eggs , screen them if egg eaters and carefully do a water change

2)Next just cover the sides of the tank and forget about them. Don't feed them, or if you do , do it one time a day and lightly. Don't do water changes, don't worry about wiping the tank walls.

3)Once the fry go freeswimming remove the sponges, rinse them well and place in a shopping bag thats closed but not airtight. You will put these back in after the fry have attached.

4)Leave the sponge cages or use an airstone for the aeration. It doesn't need to be violently pumping air, gentle air flow is best or you just blow the fry all over the place.

5)Drop the water level to the back of the pair so they are upright and covered but not much more then that.

6) Move the light over to one side of the tank or cover half the tanks lid so theres a light gradient. Leave the lights on 24/7

7) Leave all the tank walls covered through all this.

In the next 24 hours the fry should attach...Let them feed off the parents a solid day, then add your sponges and slowly raise the water level with aged water.

As insurance, when you see them starting to go free swimming make your first batch of BBS incase they don't attach and you need to feed them.

This stuff work for me.....hopefully it does you.


also.. That tail isn't from the water its from the pair tail nipping... often happens when a new pair is frustrated with each other and the fry.... keep an eye on them for aggression. If you are careful you can easily trim that tail if starts to show signs of fungus.


hth,
al



Next drop the water

[Lewjo11]

Thanks for all advice and feedback! I will document next time they spawn... Actually they did a great job problem was attachment. I will use bits and pieces off all advice along with Sanjoy. I purchased blue lights for my 2 of three breeding tanks. $9 each on Amazon.. and I recently covered the backs and sides of my tanks. One white on Blue...

[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

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[Lewjo11]

The last one I believe there both female lol. 💯 on the blue. Will watch the red one closer. They have layed eggs like crazy in my community tank. Will see