Discus.com anyone?

[Dicsus34]

Anyone order from Michael at discus.com lately? I did last year and got some stunning wilds from him and am looking to order a few more. I know he seems to have a bad rep and know he doesn’t actually sell his own personal discus and are just discus from other suppliers he gets them from but just wondering what you all think.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Dicsus34, Please read this thread from Kenny of Kenny's discus and judge for yourself http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?129385-BEWARE-of-discus-com-using-our-shipment-photos-to-sell-discus-it-doesn-t-have.
Pat

[danotaylor]

If he knew anything about discus he would not have sold you stunted discus...if he didn't know they were stunted how could you have confidence in anything he would sell? If he did know, he is unscrupulous. Either way it's a big BUYER BEWARE!

[samurai.cichlid]

it seems as though they're running a drop shipping business? i.e. customer places order, then owner of discus.com goes to say kenny or whoever, places an order with them with the shipping address to be their customer's address rather than their own. no overheads other than website maintenance and marketing.

that would explain why--skim reading the other thread--that when people buy the fish, they arrived with the packaging of the ACTUAL initial seller and not any identifying packaging or branding from discus.com itself.

drop shipping like that is pretty common in ecommerce. i'd be really surprised if people were doing it successfully with live fish, but the more i think about it then i think... why not? when i say "why not" i mean from a business model perspective. the supplier of the fish makes money, the middleman drop shipper makes money, but sadly the customer pays over the odds. so yeah, i'm not condoning it, just very curious about what they're up to lol.

drop shippers defend their practice by comparing themselves to other middlemen involved in the free market--walmart, target, amazon, whoever. they all make tidy profits. it looks like discus.com curates and collates and then drop ships from a wiiiiiide array of suppliers, they probably do email marketing, advertising, and of course pay for their hosting and domain costs. so, if they wanted to defend making a profit by marking up the fish, that's how they'd do it.

anyway, just wanted to end on reiterating that i'm not condoning this, but i always try to see a situation from everybody's perspective. the limits of my imagination prevent total understanding lol, but i try to strive for that. with this guy running discus.com, i don't know what his motivations or justifications are, but most of us would do what we could to feed our families and get ahead in life.

[ericatdallas]

Anyone order from Michael at discus.com lately? I did last year and got some stunning wilds from him and am looking to order a few more. I know he seems to have a bad rep and know he doesn’t actually sell his own personal discus and are just discus from other suppliers he gets them from but just wondering what you all think.

I have no experience but don't have a problem with him reselling fish.. I mean, that's what pet stores do... But yeah, his integrity is in question when he steals pictures and misrepresents them.

He could have just easily advertised, "We source our fish from reputable sellers, negotiate in quantities with our suppliers to provide you the most quality and affordable discus."

I remember seeing the FB post by Kenny a while back and checked it out myself. If he's willing to misrepresent this what else is he not telling his customers.

Not to mention, why not just go to the sources... now that you know?

[Discluv]

If he knew anything about discus he would not have sold you stunted discus...if he didn't know they were stunted how could you have confidence in anything he would sell? If he did know, he is unscrupulous. Either way it's a big BUYER BEWARE!

The Op said the discus received were "stunning" not "stunted".

[danotaylor]

The Op said the discus received were "stunning" not "stunted".

Lol, my bad to miss that detail...there has been nothing but negative reviews since I joined the forum...I was reading with conditioned vision...still 1 good out of how many bad reviews...still each buyer to his own, it's a freecountry, well, nothing is free really, is it? :p

[jeep]

it seems as though they're running a drop shipping business? i.e. customer places order, then owner of discus.com goes to say kenny or whoever, places an order with them with the shipping address to be their customer's address rather than their own. no overheads other than website maintenance and marketing.

that would explain why--skim reading the other thread--that when people buy the fish, they arrived with the packaging of the ACTUAL initial seller and not any identifying packaging or branding from discus.com itself.

drop shipping like that is pretty common in ecommerce. i'd be really surprised if people were doing it successfully with live fish, but the more i think about it then i think... why not? when i say "why not" i mean from a business model perspective. the supplier of the fish makes money, the middleman drop shipper makes money, but sadly the customer pays over the odds. so yeah, i'm not condoning it, just very curious about what they're up to lol.

drop shippers defend their practice by comparing themselves to other middlemen involved in the free market--walmart, target, amazon, whoever. they all make tidy profits. it looks like discus.com curates and collates and then drop ships from a wiiiiiide array of suppliers, they probably do email marketing, advertising, and of course pay for their hosting and domain costs. so, if they wanted to defend making a profit by marking up the fish, that's how they'd do it.

anyway, just wanted to end on reiterating that i'm not condoning this, but i always try to see a situation from everybody's perspective. the limits of my imagination prevent total understanding lol, but i try to strive for that. with this guy running discus.com, i don't know what his motivations or justifications are, but most of us would do what we could to feed our families and get ahead in life.

There's a huge difference here. When someone drop-ships from Walmart, Target or Amazon, they are purchasing a product that is manufactured to meet a certain criteria and is identical to every other item the advertising represents. You are purchasing exactly what you want to purchase.

When you drop ship fish, or any other live animal, you see a photo of a basic representation, that can originate in any given location, may or may not be what is advertised, and can quite possibly contain diseases or pathogens that can not only contaminate your existing stock, but there is the potential to be a human health hazard. Pack that on to the fact that someone can say "these fish came from so-and-so" when it is not flat out not true is deceptive, false advertising and a bold faced lie...

Reputable sellers are proud to disclose their entire operation, not hide it...

[warblad79]

Anyone order from Michael at discus.com lately? I did last year and got some stunning wilds from him and am looking to order a few more. I know he seems to have a bad rep and know he doesn’t actually sell his own personal discus and are just discus from other suppliers he gets them from but just wondering what you all think.

It's so wrong in every way and you'll becoming part of the problem every time you buy fish from him because you're supporting his business to grow and expand that's based on lies and deception. So therefore, he would continue to deceive and lie to people because he knows that people don't care even if he hurt other people's business. So think about it

[Discluv]

I have no problem with a business arrangement where a central broker has contracts with various companies to give the customer choice all in one easily accessible space.
That is a business model that is becoming more and more economically sound as we move from brick and mortar stores to internet buying.

The problem in this case is that Kenny has no contract with this broker and he is using his photos to sell fish.
I would think this would be illegal, but those photos appear to be still on this brokers site.
Why are they still there?

All I can say is this: if the photos are still there because the broker has been found to have a legal right to use them, it doesn't mitigate the fact that it poses an unethical practice.

That alone would make me pause to buy from this person.

[samurai.cichlid]

hurt other people's business

if he's drop shipping then he's actually helping the people he drop ships from sell fish. he's marking up as a middleman of course, which hurts the buyer, but it's no skin off the initial vendor's nose.

however, i do 100% agree with everything jeep says about why it's problematic. it's not for me, and it's not a business i'd want to get involved in running because it would leave me feeling greasy as heck.

getting back to the op's question, do i think anybody on simply discus should order from him? absolutely not, because we have direct access to quality discus vendors.

but for the uninitiated who just do a google search "where to buy discus online" if they end up on this guy's site, order some fish, and the fish arrive happy and healthy then who are we to judge?

(of course, that's a big if with a drop shipping business as jeep said)

when it comes to getting consumers to part with their cash, businesses use all kinds of shady tactics to rip us off. this guy doesn't even register when you look at the practices of some corporations (without wanting to spark anything too political). so while i acknowledge that two wrongs don't make a right, i also feel it's a bit harsh to vilify the guy who runs that site.

without wanting to sound like a broken record, i'm not defending the guy at all, i'm not saying we should buy from him. i'm just saying sometimes it's hard to get ahead in life, and if that guy's model is putting food on his table and a roof over his head then so be it.

[warblad79]

if he's drop shipping then he's actually helping the people he drop ships from sell fish. he's marking up as a middleman of course, which hurts the buyer, but it's no skin off the initial vendor's nose.

however, i do 100% agree with everything jeep says about why it's problematic. it's not for me, and it's not a business i'd want to get involved in running because it would leave me feeling greasy as heck.

getting back to the op's question, do i think anybody on simply discus should order from him? absolutely not, because we have direct access to quality discus vendors.

but for the uninitiated who just do a google search "where to buy discus online" if they end up on this guy's site, order some fish, and the fish arrive happy and healthy then who are we to judge?

(of course, that's a big if with a drop shipping business as jeep said)

when it comes to getting consumers to part with their cash, businesses use all kinds of shady tactics to rip us off. this guy doesn't even register when you look at the practices of some corporations (without wanting to spark anything too political). so while i acknowledge that two wrongs don't make a right, i also feel it's a bit harsh to vilify the guy who runs that site.

without wanting to sound like a broken record, i'm not defending the guy at all, i'm not saying we should buy from him. i'm just saying sometimes it's hard to get ahead in life, and if that guy's model is putting food on his table and a roof over his head then so be it.

Seriously? He stole pictures from Kenny, Uncle Sam Discus, and Myrtle beach discus. he's not hurting their business?

[samurai.cichlid]

he's not hurting their business?

exactly right, yes. he's not hurting their business because he's buying their products and shipping them to his customers.

a drop shipping business works by offering for sale another vendor's products on a website. they then get sales by running ads to their site, they optimize their site for search engines, work on social media, etc--they do whatever they can to drive traffic to their site.

then, once they sell a product, they go to the vendor's website and place an order for that product and have it shipped directly to their customer. they make a little profit, and they never see the product they've sold. it's all an exercise in marketing and being an effective webmaster.

if you have a look at the other thread about this guy, you'll see that people who ordered from him had boxes arrive with names of other vendors on them.

i do wonder though if he mixes and matches vendors for a particular strain though, in which case you could argue he's impacting business. but even then, not really, because he'd probably only do that in a case where his original vendor was out of stock.

again, not defending the guy in the slightest, nor am i promoting him, but not because he's damaging anybody's business because i don't believe that he is. my problem is that he's overcharging the buyer.

[brewmaster15]

I would suggest anyone interested in this Talk to the vendors in question and see if they are being compensated for this in anyway or if they have an agreement with the "dropshipper". Theres an awful lot of speculation going on here about what the relationship of the "dropshipper" is to the import /sellers. Talking to these sellers should clarify the situation.

Al

[warblad79]

exactly right, yes. he's not hurting their business because he's buying their products and shipping them to his customers.

a drop shipping business works by offering for sale another vendor's products on a website. they then get sales by running ads to their site, they optimize their site for search engines, work on social media, etc--they do whatever they can to drive traffic to their site.

then, once they sell a product, they go to the vendor's website and place an order for that product and have it shipped directly to their customer. they make a little profit, and they never see the product they've sold. it's all an exercise in marketing and being an effective webmaster.

if you have a look at the other thread about this guy, you'll see that people who ordered from him had boxes arrive with names of other vendors on them.

i do wonder though if he mixes and matches vendors for a particular strain though, in which case you could argue he's impacting business. but even then, not really, because he'd probably only do that in a case where his original vendor was out of stock.

again, not defending the guy in the slightest, nor am i promoting him, but not because he's damaging anybody's business because i don't believe that he is. my problem is that he's overcharging the buyer.

Wow! Michael Li is getting fish from Gabe Posada of Jack Wattley discus. are you sure you know what you're talking about? Those fish are not directly coming from Kenny or any other vendor. He stole pictures from them but lies about the source. So if you see kenny's pictures and purchase it then you're getting fish from Gabe. So tell me how does he not hurting their business?

[samurai.cichlid]

Wow! Michael Li is getting fish from Gabe Posada of Jack Wattley discus. are you sure you know what you're talking about? Those fish are not directly coming from Kenny or any other vendor. He stole pictures from them but lies about the source. So if you see kenny's pictures and purchase it then you're getting fish from Gabe. So tell me how does he not hurting their business?

you're absolutely right if that's the case. that's exactly what i meant when i said...


i do wonder though if he mixes and matches vendors for a particular strain though, in which case you could argue he's impacting business.

and brew is spot on that i'm probably going way too far in terms of speculation, but i didn't consider that he'd use X supplier's picture and then not source from X supplier if X supplier had said strain available. but, i guess he could be doing that if Y supplier has that strain at a cheaper price.

so i concede there actually is a possibility he could be affecting their business. you're absolutely right. but usually a drop shipping business would be a benefit to a supplier.

but it's all a bit of a non issue because nobody on simply discus has to go through that kind of middleman because the vendor list here is excellent. so i'll probably call it a day on this thread.

i'm not a fan of unnecessary conflict and since i'm new here i'd hate to get a reputation for being quarrelsome. not my intention at all. just trying to maybe use my knowledge of e-commerce to illuminate what i think is going on here.

no hard feelings i hope and all respect to reputable vendors and forum members alike!

✌✌✌

[Discluv]

you're absolutely right if that's the case. that's exactly what i meant when i said...



and brew is spot on that i'm probably going way too far in terms of speculation, but i didn't consider that he'd use X supplier's picture and then not source from X supplier if X supplier had said strain available. but, i guess he could be doing that if Y supplier has that strain at a cheaper price.

so i concede there actually is a possibility he could be affecting their business. you're absolutely right. but usually a drop shipping business would be a benefit to a supplier.

but it's all a bit of a non issue because nobody on simply discus has to go through that kind of middleman because the vendor list here is excellent. so i'll probably call it a day on this thread.

i'm not a fan of unnecessary conflict and since i'm new here i'd hate to get a reputation for being quarrelsome. not my intention at all. just trying to maybe use my knowledge of e-commerce to illuminate what i think is going on here.

no hard feelings i hope and all respect to reputable vendors and forum members alike!

✌✌✌

No hard feelings at all. :)
You are actually saying what everyone else is- it just kinda got muddled in the middle with misunderstanding.

[warblad79]

you're absolutely right if that's the case. that's exactly what i meant when i said...



and brew is spot on that i'm probably going way too far in terms of speculation, but i didn't consider that he'd use X supplier's picture and then not source from X supplier if X supplier had said strain available. but, i guess he could be doing that if Y supplier has that strain at a cheaper price.

so i concede there actually is a possibility he could be affecting their business. you're absolutely right. but usually a drop shipping business would be a benefit to a supplier.

but it's all a bit of a non issue because nobody on simply discus has to go through that kind of middleman because the vendor list here is excellent. so i'll probably call it a day on this thread.

i'm not a fan of unnecessary conflict and since i'm new here i'd hate to get a reputation for being quarrelsome. not my intention at all. just trying to maybe use my knowledge of e-commerce to illuminate what i think is going on here.

no hard feelings i hope and all respect to reputable vendors and forum members alike!

✌✌✌

No hard feelings for me as well, just stating the facts and let everyone aware. I'm happy support those honest vendors

[jeep]

i'm not a fan of unnecessary conflict and since i'm new here i'd hate to get a reputation for being quarrelsome. not my intention at all. just trying to maybe use my knowledge of e-commerce to illuminate what i think is going on here.

no hard feelings i hope and all respect to reputable vendors and forum members alike!

✌✌✌

I don't think you are quarrelsome at all and please don't refrain from posting your .02 cents whenever you feel. This is a discussion board so we discuss, lol... Sometimes we have a difference of opinion, but that's how we all learn!

I don't know how long you've kept discus, but you are new here. Conversations like this educate the every day hobbyist and at the same time expose the shady side of the "business"...

[Schatz]

This guy is a complete scammer and I would stay away, far away!

[babers]

I was inquiring and was planning on buying a few Altums from him (before I read reviews here). He described them as Jumbo/palm size. So I was asking some questions about them...ph and how longs he’s had them shipped in, the condition their in, etc. I know how touchy these altums are, specially if they were brought in “Jumbo”. Acclimating them will be a real challenge. I was also asking his if he can send me tank pictures of the group he’s selling. I was surprised when he said that he only send pictures for existing orders. And he said if I don’t like them, he’ll cancel the order. So I asked if I get penalized 15% restocking fee...then he said Absolutely!.

Wow! This is the first time I’ve been basically asked to order first, then you’ll see the fish later. Very interesting way to get (or shall I say “force”) business.


I then said I will discuss this experience at forums to get feedback about the inquiry....I guess the threads I’ve read basically answered my questions about this guy’s reputation.

[danotaylor]

There's people here that can direct you to good quality altums. They may post here, but I suggest starting a thread asking specifically what you're after.
Glad you found your buyer beware answer re this guy...

[jeep]

Typical of someone who is not in possession of the fish you are asking about, lol... I imagine his altums come from Wattley...

[Ryan]

This guy does not have a facility. You place the order, he then orders from Wattley, and Wattley ships directly to you. Michael Li has no fish and doesn’t ship. He never sees or handles the livestock.

He steals pictures from other vendors to bait you into ordering, then places an order at a totally different vendor who does not have the fish in his pictures. So it’s worse than drop-shipping. It’s an outright scam. It’s like showing you an iPhone and then having someone ship you one of those garbage knock-offs from China.

[Disgirl]

He wanted to sell my breeding cones. He would take the orders, get most of the $$, and I had to ship the cones to whoever ordered them, then I got a few $$. Told him no way. But another pottery person said yes to his scam.
Barb

[14Discus]

I thought I’d stay out of this, but had to chime in.

1. Kenny does not get his fish from a Gabe. His single source is Forest.
2. Kenny’s pics are the actual fish sold. I’ve even ordered specific fish that I saw in his listings and got exactly what was pictured.
3. Went to discus.com today and saw several listings with photos from Kenny’s site. I went so far as to match the wrinkles in the palms of the fish in hand at Discus.com to the wrinkles in the hands of Forest from Kenny’s monthly listing. Yes, sadly, pics are, to this day, still used wo permission from Kenny.
4. Kenny has class and has stayed out of this particular fray even though he has every right to be upset (POed).
5. If Kenny takes a while to get the fish I want, it’s worth the wait. I will gladly wait to get the best actual fish he has personally cared for prior to shipping to his clients.
6. Mike L. is a pleasant man to speak with, but his not actually dealing with the specific fish I’d be buying and wrongful use of pics that are not his, steer me away. I would have no problem with Mike brokering fish as mentioned above, but it’s not for me. I do have a problem with unauthorized use of pics to make sales.....plain and simple.

I have no ill wishes for Mike......just wish he’d state clearly how he does what he does and he’d refrain from his pic practice.

Respectfully, Bill

[pastry]

Bill, if I didn't know any better then I'd say you're side by side with me drinking beers together :antlers: I think the portions you're replying to are from last year (early 2019 posts about the dude using others pics)... yep, poking fun of you ... but only because that's something I'd do :p. That said, I still agree with you.

[KIAWAHKID]

I like and appreciate your unemotional analysis of the issue. I almost bought from Li also but when I realized I had seen the pictures beforehand I went direct to Kenny and also direct to Gabe in Florida.

[mjjdiscus]

This Li guy is a joke. Hes a joke scammer. i ordered 3 items from him all on separate days. i received one of three items which i had tracking for. i talked to him on the phone asking about the status and tracking info for the other 2 items, he stated he did not have since i would have coat moremoney for shipping. He blamed in on covid an told me to wait. I ended up opening a dispute with paypal. At this point he gave them thw tracking number that showed the 1 item that did deliver and they closed the dispute in his favour. I will be calling paypal again to get my money back since i have proof what was associated to the tracking is not the other 2 items. hes a loser and a scammer dont waste your time and money on this fool. one day he will gwt hia teeth kicked in!!

[Maxx134]

I wish I researched.
Their site looked amazing and whoever did thier site must be a genius as it is very nice and makes you want to buy with the shipping timers..
The amazing vast list of Discus should have been a red flag.

As all that is a deep fake lie! As they will not ship any fish, anytime soon.
I waiting over 3 mo before my discus came in.
They didn't look like the pictures either. At least they were the right size.

Then the wild Altum angles arrived sick with rottted fins mostly gone, with dreaded white fuzz and gill flukes. They were really bad shape.
It took a month to cure them and their fins/ventrals still not fully recovered.

And then the guy lies over and over again in emails, that he will be sending the missing clown loaches that never came, months later.

People like this should not be in business.
Quote:
"Our facilities collectively house over 30,000 gallons, 25,000 discus fish, and 90+ strains at any given time"...

I believe this is a flagrant lie.
They do not offer any public view of their "facility" and do not do any type of pickup, curbside or otherwise.
This adds to the suspicion that they are a fraudulent service.

[Iminit]

Yes with that many and that cheap...... if it’s to good to believe.... shame too because you’ve got discus madness on the other side of the tunnel. Also that aquarium by the Javits center.

[Beestie]

I went and checked it out. I see pics of facilities that I recognize as not theirs which they claim to be. There's also a section where they dox people that has had problems with them with pics and addresses claiming they are thieves, it's at the bottom of the page under law enforcement hall of shame. That's illegal... I see many defamation lawsuits going their way. Just a matter of time before that site gives a 404 error.

[Trapdoor Snail Enthusiast]

confirmed drop shipping business. go on youtube and search drop shipping if you're unfamiliar with how it works (worth it, it might save you from wasting money).

it's one thing to drop ship cheap crap from aliexpress, but to do it with live fish is not good imo.

[jjferg]

How do I read the link that you have provided in this thread. I am a new member and it won't let me open it. I'm a bit confused! Cheers Jeanette

[danotaylor]

How do I read the link that you have provided in this thread. I am a new member and it won't let me open it. I'm a bit confused! Cheers Jeanette

Jeanette the best thing you can do is take heed and stay away from discus.com altogether...don't even look there, just take a wide berth

[peewee1]

How do I read the link that you have provided in this thread. I am a new member and it won't let me open it. I'm a bit confused! Cheers Jeanette

Why waste your time with it? There are so many good suppliers sponsoring the forum to explore and get to know. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

[jeep]

If it's the link from Kenny, his sponsor page is no longer available for public view. Here's the main quote...


Hi everyone,

It has been brought to my attention repeatedly by many of my old customers that https://www.discusfish.com/ has been stealing my monthly shipment strain photos to sell my long-time supplier Forrest Teo's discus on his website that he doesn't actually have. The owner of the site has been informed and warned by me of his unethical business practice(I have all email correspondences here) but he refused to take down these stolen photos and he continues still to misrepresent discus he's selling to discus hobbyists. For the past 12 years (since 2005) I've been Forrest Teo's sole US distributor so no other US discus sellers import directly from Forrest Teo. Anyone claiming to have imported Forrest Teo's discus here in the US is 100% making a false claim. He also claims to possibly be selling Forrest Teo's discus though my wholesale customers but I've checked with every single one of my wholesale customer and no one is selling Forrest Teo's discus to him. Please beware of the above site's unethical business practice.

Example of Forrest Teo's discus photos taken from our monthly shipments:

https://www.discusfish.com/ (discus.com)

We are currently working to send the owner of the above website a Cease and Desist letter, and if he continues to refuse taking down these stolen photos taken from our monthly shipment threads/photobucket account, we will sue him for theft of image property as well as damages for loss of business.

Thank you to all those who have informed me of this issue, I greatly appreciate all of you.

Kenny Cheung
Kenny's Discus

[peewee1]

After I spoke to Kenny about this infringement. I offered to him legal advise via my son whose legal specialty is trademark, IP, and patent law. Kenny at that time, while very disappointed about this matter, did not wish to spend his valuable time perusing this. Discus.com was then and is now clearly in the wrong. Why would any sane person choose to do business with them, him, it?

[jeep]

The lack of ethics goes far beyond stealing copyrighted photo's.

[Ryan]

I mean, let’s face it, it’s the definition of defrauding people out of money. He’s showing and telling them that they’re getting specific fish from specific breeders and then doing a bait-and-switch to have crap drop-shipped to them, probably at a reduced cost so that he pockets a ton of money. And there are once-respected vendors helping him do it to make a buck! It’s why I’m not selling discus anymore. Lots of crooks and liars in that business, like any other I guess.

[LizStreithorst]

You found that out the hard way, Ryan.

[sethallen212]

I bought from them and recieved my 6 Discus last week. I was surprised that they sent me bigger ones than I expected. Solid quality too. But I was very disappointed in how extremely rude the customer service was. They try to force you to leave a review and once I said I would need a few days they got mad at me and very rude.

[jeep]

I bought from them and recieved my 6 Discus last week. I was surprised that they sent me bigger ones than I expected. Solid quality too. But I was very disappointed in how extremely rude the customer service was. They try to force you to leave a review and once I said I would need a few days they got mad at me and very rude.

You should include that in your review, lol...

[bruce.blumberg]

Wow, I wish that I had found this thread before buying discus from Michael at discus.com! Sorry for the long message, but it is a long story.

I have been keeping discus for more than 30 years. My first blue turquoise were from Marc Weiss who was very helpful and sold me lovely, healthy fish. These lived more than 10 years. When they had all passed away and it was time to get new ones, Marc was no longer selling discus to I found some that I liked at Mac's discus. The fish were colorful and healthy, albeit not show quality. These did well and lived to a ripe old age.

For the 3rd generation of my discus, I decided to stick with Mac's since the previous batch had done well. I had a new 150g tank to fill. I bought another 15 of various colors. About 13 of these grew to adulthood and spawned from time to time. A good friend decided to buy some discus for me and told me that she really liked snow leopard discus. I found some at a large discus seller in Southern California who shall remain nameless for the moment. I bought 2 snow leopards and 2 golden leopards that appeared robust and healthy and put these in quarantine despite that the guy said there no need to quarantine his discus. Within about 2 weeks, the golden leopards died. I kept the snow leopards in quarantine for about 3 months before moving them to my main tank.

I moved the remaining fish to my 150g. After that, I started to lose 1-2 discus a month until they were all gone in about a year's time. The tank sat without discus for many months although the bristlenoses and small tetras were perfectly fine. The problem was a flagellate infection that did not respond to metronidazole - the dreaded discus wasting disease. I was quite depressed.

Meanwhile we had our house renovated and I decided to restart the discus tank. I removed all the remaining fish to a spare tank in the garage since I didn't want them to pass the infection to new fish. I remove the water and sand, then added fresh water and bleach to 100 ppm. The tank ran that way for ~ weeks, i cleaned the tank and all the media, neutralized the bleach with sodium thiosulfate, emptied the tank again and filled with aged 50:50 RO-tap water and cycled the tank with Dr. Tims and Microbacter. Once ammonia was gone and nitrate registering I ordered new discus. I had planned to buy from Jack Wattley, but they did not have the leopards I wanted in stock. Then I found discus.com. I emailed back and forth with Michael, telling him of my experience and that I was looking for reliable, healthy discus and altums. He had the strains I wanted so I placed the order: 3 high body blue diamond, 3 F1 red spotted green, 3 german blue turquoise, 3 red super eruption and 3 golden lollipop, all 3.5-4" except the super eruption. 6 altums were supposed to be 3-4". I also ordered 8 high fin panda corys and 8 sterbai corys' thinking that buying from the same vendor would minimize potential troubles.

Most of the discus looked good except 2 of the 3 super eruption which were tiny and dark. 2 of the corys were DOA and 2 of the altums died in a day. I informed Michael and he said to separate the sick fish and medicate them with metronidazole. It has been about 3 weeks now. The altums showed fin rot immediately (despite that I run a 54 watt UV sterilizer) so I began feeding with erythromycin/doxycycline flakes. No real change so far. Two of the golden lollipop discus are showing white feces so I switched the food to flake with metronidazole, turned off the sterilizer and added 1 tsp/gallon of salt and raised the temp to 88 F. The 2 super eruptions in the hospital tank were not eating to I got some live daphnia for them. One is eating but the other died.

I informed Michael of all this and he says that I should have read his return policy and too bad for me. He won't even refund the 2 dead corys despite that I sent him pix and notified immediately.

All in all a bad experience with discus.com. I feel quite stupid having not investigated him before buying. My discus and altums shipped from Jack Wattley discus, but his web site did not show super eruptions. golden lollipop or high body blue diamonds in stock in 3". I have no idea what I actually received, although the fish resemble what they should.

So echoing everyone else, discus.com is not a great place to buy discus, at least not in my experience.

Bruce

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Bruce, sorry for your experience. Michel has not actually have any fish. He passed his orders on to other discus etc vendors to full fill your order. If you still have the boxes and/or shipping addresses you can lookup who actually shipped you fish.
Pat

[jeep]

Bruce, sorry for your experience. Thanks for your feedback. Hopefully it will help keep others from experiencing the same thing!