ich medications

[NCDiscus]

Afternoon everyone. I noticed two or three spots on one of my discus that looks like ich. I'm watching closely but if it spreads anymore going to start medicating. My temp ranges from 83 to 84, 0 ammonia, PH 6.2, white sand, and 25% water change once per week. Tank mates are 5 corys, 5 neons, 4 rummy nose, 1 bristlenose pleco and 2 rams. I have spring water that my discus love and in the past have done 80% water change once a month and have never had any issues. I recently added some live plants and added 3 discus from Kenny to the existing 4 approximately a week ago in a 75 gallon.

Looking for suggestions on the best medication. Hoping there's something that won't kill some of the tank mates but if I have to sacrifice them for the discus then so be it.

Thanks

[fljones3]

I doubt that it's ich. I would up your WC to at least 30% 3x per week. Raise the temp to 30C. See if it clears up.
In my tank, I do more WC.

[Pices]

I would up those wc’s before I started any meds. 30% wc per week is very small for the high bioload of discus. If you could fill out the disease questionnaire, it will go a long way in getting your problem under control. You can copy and paste it to this thread.
Patty

[brewmaster15]

I agree with Frank and Patty here.It sounds like a water quality issue and some small localized infection.This is a common discus issue.

Generally if you have ich even starting in a tank you will see alot of small spots not a couple.

Hth,
Al

[bluelagoon]

To add if it were to be ich,no meds,no salt are needed.High temps above 86 will work.This is from experience.But I agree with the WC's.

[14Discus]

Not to be contradictive, I must share my recent episode w Ich. I’m glad for you if 86 took care of your Ich, but that was not the case for me. Had a mild case of Ich breakout in my 75g Discus tank which I keep at 86-87 degrees all the time. I had to raise temp to 91 and I treated w Paraguard by Seachem. In eight days, all spots were gone. I’m continuing PG for the recommended duration and, I’m happy to say, my Discus didn’t mind the high temps, nor did my plants or Cories. I suspect my case must have perhaps involved a strain of Ich more accustomed to high temps (86-87 degrees). I’m now very gradually lowering the temp in the tank back to 86.

I will add that both my Ich cases in the last several years were treated w Paraguard and I am impressed. It worked very well.......did not color water, stain decorations, harm plants or Cories, and my bacteria action seemed fine in that NH3, NO2, and NO3 levels remained normal (0, 0, and 0-5 respectively). I saw no behavioral issues w the fish and they continued to eat as though nothing was in the water. Also....I did my WCs w gravel vacuuming(I have 1/2 -3/4” deep coarse sand) as usual during treatment. I always dosed my PG an hour before lights out so it was strongest in the dark when Tomite/Theront activity, I’ve read, is the highest. Honestly....I was ready w Rid-Ich, if needed, for a backup punch should PG have failed. Just sharing my thoughts.......and yes....... I admit I was careless to have let Ich get into the tank in the first place.

[bluelagoon]

That treatment worked for me more than once.Perhaps it was a more resistant strain,but you have to make sure it is above 86.At no time should it go lower;that is why I say above 86 at all times including WC's.I think the 90 degrees would have gotten rid of it.Did your try that first.The first day or so looks like the ich is getting worse,but the next day all spots should be gone.You should see this happen in about 4 days.

[14Discus]

My tanks are set to keep them at 87......at 88, the thermostats in the heaters turn off. Thus, I’d say my temps were a constant 87.5 to 87.9 degrees on avg. My barrel of aged, aerated, water going into tanks is heated to 88 degrees.

No, I did a combination of 91 degrees plus Paraguard this time around. I wanted a two pronged attack w the issue being that Ich was present at 87 degrees. Maybe next time I’ll try temp alone first. I will add that the first time I had Ich, I did try temp alone raised to 87 degrees from 84 degrees to no avail, hence my inclination to use a two pronged attack this time. I will also add that each tank has four separate thermometers in addition to the heater sensors and controller sensors.

I am not refuting your claims, but merely sharing the details of my particular situation.

[brewmaster15]

My tanks are set to keep them at 87......at 88, the thermostats in the heaters turn off. Thus, I’d say my temps were a constant 87.5 to 87.9 degrees on avg. My barrel of aged, aerated, water going into tanks is heated to 88 degrees.

No, I did a combination of 91 degrees plus Paraguard this time around. I wanted a two pronged attack w the issue being that Ich was present at 87 degrees. Maybe next time I’ll try temp alone first. I will add that the first time I had Ich, I did try temp alone raised to 87 degrees from 84 degrees to no avail, hence my inclination to use a two pronged attack this time. I will also add that each tank has four separate thermometers in addition to the heater sensors and controller sensors.

I am not refuting your claims, but merely sharing the details of my particular situation.

Bill I have heard others mention having heat resistant ich in their tanks. I haven't myself but I wonder it these cases are actually another species of protozoan that people are dealing with.

al

[pitdogg2]

To add if it were to be ich,no meds,no salt are needed.High temps above 86 will work.This is from experience.But I agree with the WC's.

100% in agreement

[Pices]

NCDiscus, are you able to post a pic of fish with ick?
Patty

[14Discus]

Al and pitdogg2,

Thanks for your comments.

Well.......it could be another protozoan or Ich relative or a particular strain of Ich. I’ve been into fish for decades and this looked just like the Ich of past. I did not grab a culture and may well if again in the future. It came and went just like Ich of the past. In any case...the fish r free of the white specks, r no longer flashing, and all is well. Whatever it was, it’s no longer bothering the fish. I’ll have read up on similar protozoans etc.

[NCDiscus]

Thanks everyone for the great info. I turned the temp up to 88 yesterday evening and when I checked this morning it appeared there was another half dozen additional spots but when I came home this evening all were gone. I'll keep it 88 for another week or so and will keep a close eye to see if anything else appears. I'm thinking if it was truly ich I possibly could have picked it up from the plants I bought. Didn't quarantine them and they were in a tank with loaches at a lfs. That's what happens I guess when you try cutting corners. Thanks again everyone for all the responses.

[Discluv]

I have switched from using heat method ( about 10 years now) to using Paraguard exclusively in cases of Ich due to increasing cases of heat-resistant Ich. More importantly, however, I no longer use heat because of the secondary bacteria that can be just as deadly to fish as the parasite itself. The higher the heat, the quicker the bacteria spreads through the tissues where parasite has burrowed in.

Paraguard, in addition to malachite green and methelyene blue,has acriflavine that works as an anti-bacterial to make these areas inhospitable to bacterial growth.

I would never risk adding heat on top of medication because of the sites the Ich parasite prefer: on and under the gill cover. The fish are already oxygen compromised from the parasite itself and the mucus that works to rid the parasite from gills, add high heat and you further diminish oxygen uptake.

[CliffsDiscus]

Try some Rid-Ich

Cliff

[bluelagoon]

I have switched from using heat method ( about 10 years now) to using Paraguard exclusively in cases of Ich due to increasing cases of heat-resistant Ich. More importantly, however, I no longer use heat because of the secondary bacteria that can be just as deadly to fish as the parasite itself. The higher the heat, the quicker the bacteria spreads through the tissues where parasite has burrowed in.

Paraguard, in addition to malachite green and methelyene blue,has acriflavine that works as an anti-bacterial to make these areas inhospitable to bacterial growth.

I would never risk adding heat on top of medication because of the sites the Ich parasite prefer: on and under the gill cover. The fish are already oxygen compromised from the parasite itself and the mucus that works to rid the parasite from gills, add high heat and you further diminish oxygen uptake.

I did it the other way around.I went from meds to heat because meds were killing more fish than the heat that had ich.I've been around a long time too.Lets say about 50 years keeping fish of all species.When you're around that long you come across a few cases of bad bugs.The QT tank is your best friend.Loaches,other scaleless fish and tetras do much better in heat than MG&F for treatment of ich IMO..MG&F (has many names) is my first go to med for a qt tank if needed.And the warmer the water the more aeration.Right now here in Canada antibiotics are not for sale for the fish hobbyist without taking your fish to a vet to get a prescription.So most folks won't pay that cost and replace their fish.Sad hey.

[Discluv]

I have had many characins, cichlids, and corydoras species through the last 3 decades as well :).
Currently I have over 8 wild, sensitive characins from Africa: phenocogrammus, hemigrammopetersius, alestopetersius species.
I also have ( all wild). Altum Angels, geophagus, biotodoma cupido and wavirini, Bolivian Rams, [I]corydoras eques.

I have never had one single case of a malachite green proprietary blend medication killing a fish and I have treated with these types of blends with hundreds of fish. If someone has, I would say that it was due to human error. Not reading and following the directions on the back of the bottle to the letter.

[bluelagoon]

Most species will take those meds well.Others may be weakened already and the formalin may do them in.It can kill scaleless fish and tetras at the normal dose.But I have used it without killing anything many times.From my own experience I know heat alone works well for me for ich.