Discus is looking bad!

[Firecraca]

I just set up a 55 G bare-bottom tank that had previously been used for another freshwater setup. We cleaned it out with vinegar water solution and rinsed it. New discus quarantine tank upgraded from 30 G to this new 55 G. 100% water change upon transfer. All parameters maintained within one degree between tanks (85-86F, 2 dKh, 7.6 pH). 1 striped discus out of 8 juveniles was dark for the first 6 hours after transfer. After that he looked normal, and then we started to notice a white film growing on his fins and sides. He was acting strange, going back and forth across the tank, but still eating. Now he is back to being dark colored and fins appear to be disintegrating at the edges. Just did a 50% water change after skipping a change one day after the transfer. Feeding is still normal with all 8 discus. He is currently swimming with others but has all fins clamped.

Any ideas what could be going on with this little guy? Should I do another water change this evening of 75% w/ RODI water as I was planning? 124030124031

[jeep]

Hello and welcome to the forum!! Can you give us as much detail as possible please. Can you please go here and copy the form and fill out then paste it back here? Maybe we can get to the bottom of this issue soon...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?134179-Disease-Questionnaire-please-complete

[Firecraca]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Discus has turned dark and looks to have a white slime.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
turning dark, excess slime, poop is green to dark brown. Some of the other fish seem to have cloudy fins and one of the first discus has a white pimple on the side of the body.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Water changes only

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
55 gal 8 discus 3-4 inches and the rest are smaller

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

50% daily only one has been done since they transfered from a 30gal to the 55 gal 4 days. about to do another 50% change
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

4 days bare bottom cycled sponge filter 13inches deep 48 inches long 18 inches tall. fan heater and drift wood. bare minimum decor
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
no

8. Parameters and water source;
2dkh 7.6 ph cant test for other parameters 84.7 degrees
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __84,7___

- ph __7.6___

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water _x__35%_

- RO water _x___65%


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

4 original 4 new in last week
10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

mysis shrimp blood worms beef heart. 3-4 times a day

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[jeep]

Thanks for providing the additional information! This is what I was looking for...



9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

4 original 4 new in last week

Doing water changes with RODI is not necessary, but large water changes are very important at this time, since it appears you have a cross contamination issue cause by improper QT.

I recommend doing 75% (or more) daily water changes with aged and treated water. Also, add 1 TBS salt per gallon, and replace the salt being removed during the water change and back the heat down to 82. Do this for at least 10 days. I would really like to see your ammonia and nitrate levels. Can you pick up a test kit or take a sample to your LFS and have them test it for you? If you don't see an improvement within the first 2-3 days, I would treat the entire tank with Furan 2.

[LizStreithorst]

YOu should euthanize the fish in the picture. It is hopeless and is putting more pathogens into the water. You need to test your pH right out of the tap and after 24 hrs in a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone. If you can't afford a test kit, the pet stores often test tank water free of charge. We need to need know ammonia, nitrate, and nitrate. Do you add prime of other dechlorinator? Could you take a pic of the entire tank? I'd like to see the condition of the other fish.

[lpsouth1978]

YOu should euthanize the fish in the picture. It is hopeless and is putting more pathogens into the water. You need to test your pH right out of the tap and after 24 hrs in a 5 gallon bucket with an air stone. If you can't afford a test kit, the pet stores often test tank water free of charge. We need to need know ammonia, nitrate, and nitrate. Do you add prime of other dechlorinator? Could you take a pic of the entire tank? I'd like to see the condition of the other fish.

I may be pretty new to Discus, but not to keeping fish. IMO euthanizing the fish at this stage is a complete waste. Any pathogen that this fish has is already in the tank and the other fish are likely already infected (if it is indeed a pathogen and not just poor water conditions).

I agree with getting pictures of the entire tank and the other fish. I would also start doing larger water changes and GET TEST KITS IMMEDIATELY. There is no way for us to keep fish happy and healthy without testing the water they are in. If you have not tested the water, there is absolutely no way to know that you have a cycled filter and/or tank. You could be killing your fish due to ammonia toxicity because you "think" your tank is properly cycled. Adding prime will help to detox ammonia if that is a problem, but you need to find the underlying problem and fix it ASAP. I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but test kits are NOT a luxury, they are a NECESSITY!

If this is a pathogen of some sort, I can't be of much help. I do everything I can to avoid medicating a tank, so others will have to help with that. Good luck to you!

[Firecraca]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

[LizStreithorst]

I'm sorry Fire, but I disagree with Ipsouth. The fish you pictured is emaciated and miserable. If you decide to try to save it put it in a 10 gallon by itself and treat with Levamasol and Furan II. Someone else like Al will have to tell you if you can use both together. If a fish eats but continues to loose weight it's full of worms, that's why I suggest worming. The white patch is a secondary bacterial infection which is why it needs the Furan II.

One thing that you can to is see whether or not you need to age your WC water. This is very important and very easy. Just get a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with tap water and check the pH. Then stick an air stone in the bucket, let it bubble over night and check the pH again. Please ask your local fish store if they will test your water parameters for free. I can't afford a test kit either so when I think I might have a problem I just take a water sample to my pet store where they test it for free.

In this case a UV filter is a waste of money.

[lpsouth1978]

I'm sorry Fire, but I disagree with Ipsouth. The fish you pictured is emaciated and miserable. If you decide to try to save it put it in a 10 gallon by itself and treat with Levamasol and Furan II. Someone else like Al will have to tell you if you can use both together. If a fish eats but continues to loose weight it's full of worms, that's why I suggest worming. The white patch is a secondary bacterial infection which is why it needs the Furan II.

One thing that you can to is see whether or not you need to age your WC water. This is very important and very easy. Just get a 5 gallon bucket, fill it with tap water and check the pH. Then stick an air stone in the bucket, let it bubble over night and check the pH again. Please ask your local fish store if they will test your water parameters for free. I can't afford a test kit either so when I think I might have a problem I just take a water sample to my pet store where they test it for free.

In this case a UV filter is a waste of money.

Nothing wrong with differing opinions. Ultimately it is up to the OP as to what to do with the sick fish. I fully agree with the UV sterilizer being a waste of money in this situation. Instead, use the money you would otherwise have spent on the UV and get some test kits. The API Master test kit is like $22 on Amazon.

[lpsouth1978]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that plain old table salt works fine. The Iodine in table salt can actually benefit the fish in small amounts. You can also purchase aquarium salt (for freshwater, NOT reef salt). I don't think you want to use Epsom salt as it is a magnesium salt. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am mistaken.

[LizStreithorst]

Lyle, I'm the Mama Bear so I am plain spoken. I don't mind a difference of opinion either.

The problem is that the test kits don't have a long useful life. They go out of date by the next time you need them. That's why I like my LPS. They test water for folks all the time so their chemicals are always fresh. And it's FREE!

[jeep]

I use to have test kits that tested everything but now i only have dkh gkh and ph. I plan on getting more when I can afford it. Ill post pictures a soon as I can. The fish in the picture is looking worse but is still eating. Is a uv sterilizer a good idea or am I wasting $$? what kind of salt? Aquarium or epsom?

Like Liz said, most LFS will test your water for free. And just use regular salt, no additives. I buy Solar Salt from Home Depot for around $6 for 40lbs

[Firecraca]

What about not using ro/di water? Should I skip that process? It's getting expensive and i'm about to purchase everything I need. I'm buying test kit, cobalt 300w heater, ro/di system, and many other necessities. I've checked the pH in all my tanks and the pH is always 7.6. Is doing the 5gal bucket idea going to give me different results? What dosage of solar salt would I need for my 55 gal? We will get our water tested at the pet store and see what the results are (and buy our own as soon as we are able). I don't have another heater so I can't qt the sick one. What about a divider so that he/she is not picked on? The others chase it away from the group relentlessly.

Thank you all so much for all the help!! We only just got this little fella from the pet store, where he and his compadres were clearly not happy. Sadly, every pet store we have gotten our discus from were basically keeping them as a side-item in some random tank with a temp of 78 or less. I will try to post some pics that I just took.

[slicksta]

That fish looks as it's been sick for some time. When was the move to the 55g?
Can you post some pics of the rest of the fish

[Firecraca]

124054

[Firecraca]

That is a pic of the same fish from today. Here is one of our older, larger striped discus that was added three weeks prior to Patient 0 (our original sick fish).
124056

[Firecraca]

124057
124058

[Firecraca]

That is another discus that just today began to act strange and developing this strange white coloration at the edge of his fins. All the fish with similar infections swim away from the other fish, sometimes parallel to the floor of the tank, and will sporadically undulate their tails with fine fibrillations, almost as if they are trying to rid their tail of the infestation.

[Firecraca]

This is the entire tank: 124059

[LizStreithorst]

Any kind of salt will work, Jeep's is just the cheapest but how long will it take for you to use 40 lbs. of salt? When I need salt I just use normal table salt.

Dump the UV filter. You'll be throwing your money away.

If you want me to go away and not help you with your problem, all you have not to do it the pH swing test. Hell, All it takes is a bucket filled with water and an air stone. What's so hard about that?

[LizStreithorst]

The PB looks fine, The 9 bar doesn't look well.

[Firecraca]

Ok thnx, how much salt and can I skip the ro/di water mixture?

[jeep]

40lbs of salt lasts me about 5+ years, lol... And that's with about 8 tanks... But I also use it for cooking from time to time... Don't use iodized if you use table salt.

And I agree with Slicksta. I'm sorry to say, these fish look malnourished and/or lacking in water changes, but we can work on that after the current issue is resolved.

Liz is correct - Forget the UV. Is that a wave maker or power head I see in there? If so, stop using that as well. Just follow the water change and salt routine (then Furan 2 if necessary) and try to get us some ammonia and nitrate numbers.

If you get discouraged or skeptical, have a look at this recent thread...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135110-devastated

[Firecraca]

Power head is turned off.

[Firecraca]

Powerhead is turned off. Someone said not to worry about ro/di right now is that ok?

[jeep]

Using RODI for discus is a myth under most circumstances. I fell into the same trap when I first started out. Discus do fine in most hard waters and ph as long as they are consistent parameters... This is why ageing your water is important!

[Firecraca]

Sweet thank you so much I’m going to do a 75% change now from tap and age the next water change

[slicksta]

My initial impression is that the sponge filter is Insufficient and/or not fully cycled.
We really do need you to test. Ammonia /Nitrite /Nitrate and the pH water aging as Liz has requested.
How are you treating the tap water when doing changes from tap? Dechlorinator? Before/during /after?
Are you matching the tank temperature when using tap? How fast are you adding water back?
Salt and a wide spectrum antibiotic are a good treatment to start with.
But without the tests we can't narrow down the cause.

ps... and I'm with jeep, cheap.
I haven't used salt in years but when I did buy it came in a very big bag for very little money and was around for years :-D

[Sturiosoma]

I just set up a 55 G bare-bottom tank that had previously been used for another freshwater setup. We cleaned it out with vinegar water solution and rinsed it. New discus quarantine tank upgraded from 30 G to this new 55 G. 100% water change upon transfer. All parameters maintained within one degree between tanks (85-86F, 2 dKh, 7.6 pH). 1 striped discus out of 8 juveniles was dark for the first 6 hours after transfer. After that he looked normal, and then we started to notice a white film growing on his fins and sides. He was acting strange, going back and forth across the tank, but still eating. Now he is back to being dark colored and fins appear to be disintegrating at the edges. Just did a 50% water change after skipping a change one day after the transfer. Feeding is still normal with all 8 discus. He is currently swimming with others but has all fins clamped.

Any ideas what could be going on with this little guy? Should I do another water change this evening of 75% w/ RODI water as I was planning? 124030124031

What I am seeing here and please forgive my opinion, but what I have been told in speaking with many people in the tropical fish hobby is that there are two golden rules whether you're keeping a discus or a guppy and those are water volume vs density as much water you can provide given the bio load so lots of water and a few fish and the second being filtration as much filtration as possible up to 6 times turnover now what I'm seeing is a lot of fish and very poor filtration I think I would invest in a good filter, and I also think it's easy for the experienced fish keeper to forget the basics, I am expecting fires water tests to be pretty bad as far as amonium and nitratites but we shall see

Jeanne

[Firecraca]

Did 50-60% water change last night. Added salt about 3/4 of a cup and it was some aquarium salt from a previous time I needed it. I appreciate all comments and have taken some suggestions to heart. The power head has stopped and all the fish seem happier!

To clear up some confusion, Ive been in to the hobby of keeping freshwater for about 13 yrs and some of the questions people have asked seem to make me think that you believe I’m new to the hobby. I’m new to discus and I’m about 4-5 weeks strong. So I’ll clear the air by saying this: sponge filter is more than cycled, it came from an existing tank that after cleaning it out (squeezing it in a bag of aquarium water)the detritus that came out proved that the sponge was more than cycled. Also it is a filter that claimed that it filters up to 125 gal tanks. I’m almost positive that the filter is fine. My temp is always the same going in and I use “prime”and I add it to the tank while I refill. This method is probably not the best but it has worked in all my tanks before. I’m now aging my water and I’ve ordered meds in-case things get bad. I run a 75 g freshwater Arizonan tank with an Asian flare. This tank runs on a sump with an extra 15 g. I also have 4 betta bowls filtered with a sponge filter and plants for filtration. Not to sound like a smart$&# but I’m not new to the hobby and I’ve had Ick three times treated it successfully once, transfered fish from home to home successfully, growing plants at a rediculous rate even without co2 or fertilizer being added. Of course you must understand that this hobby has a million people telling what to do. Through experience I have learned to take a bit here and a bit there. However, I appreciate the comments and please keep them coming!!

PS SOLAR SALT OR POOL SALT ARE MADE AROUND INDUSTRIAL AREAS KNOWING THIS THE SALT MAY BE CONTAMINATED WITH UNKOWN METALS, TOXINS, ETC... NOT WORTH THE RISK.

[slicksta]

I'll say this... You are assuming your filter is fine.
And if you don't test to know for sure, then you are still a newbie @13 years. Suggesting the use of a UV light as a remedy = newbie
Now you know why you are getting the suggestions that you are.
Good luck.

[Second Hand Pat]

Another thing about the filter is you added four new fish to the four you had so you doubled the bio-load. The filter needs time to catch up so you could easily have measurable ammonia/nitrites. The fin damages suggests ammonia is present to me.
Pat

[jeep]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details :D

[slicksta]

Thanks jeep... Much more tactful than I :-)
But I do feel that medicating without trying to narrow down the cause is only delaying the inevitable and torturing the fish in the process.

[jeep]

I agree on the meds! Throwing meds without knowing what's going on is the worst thing anyone can do. Many people scoff at it, but this is why my first line of attack is always salt, lol...

[slicksta]

Salt & Water Changes / Water Changes & Salt

[Sturiosoma]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details :D

I have a question, can you rate a sump in gallons per hour like you can a hang on filter and if so what would the gph on this 55gal with a 15 gal sump

Jeanne

[lpsouth1978]

....To clear up some confusion, Ive been in to the hobby of keeping freshwater for about 13 yrs and some of the questions people have asked seem to make me think that you believe I’m new to the hobby. I’m new to discus and I’m about 4-5 weeks strong....

Much like you, I have only had discus for about 5 weeks, but I have 25 years experience in keeping fish including saltwater reefs, planted tanks, and MANY freshwater. I can tell you that I spent months on this site reading, researching, and preparing for discus. The biggest thing I learned in all of this, is stability and cleanliness are key to success. As a result, I set up a semi-automatic water change routine (using RO/DI because I have a 400gpd system for my reef tank) that changes out 30 gallons a day (~18%). I test my nitrates a couple times a week, to ensure that the water changes are adequate. If I see nitrates rising, I do extra water changes to bring it back down. Typically this is not neccessary, but I have the option because I test regularly. I put MUCH more time and energy into this tank than any of my reef tanks. I have, so far, found that discus are not hard to keep, but require a serious commitment to keep them happy and health.

So, what is my point? Having years of experience with tropical fish is great, but it is not the same as having years of experience with Discus. I am pretty comfortable in saying that I have more experience with fishkeeping, overall, than many people on this forum. Yet, I learn something from the people here everyday. There is always more to learn and someone with more knowledge and experience than you. We are ALL here to learn and help each other.

You have been given lots of advice, ultimately it is up to you to decide what advice you follow and what you disregard. Just remember that none of us have any investment in your tank, we just want to see you succeed. So please don't get offended when people ask for basic information or come across as treating you like a "newbie". They are simply trying to help.

Finally, if you were to get nothing else from this entire thread these would be the top recommendations I have seen (in no particular order):

1. Water changes are your friend :)
2. Age your water - while all of your tanks may measure 7.6 pH, your water from the tap may not be.
3. Water changes are your friend :) :)
4. Test your water regularly - either yourself or at the LFS
5. Water changes are your friend :) :) :)

[eugenefish]

I like the fact that you have come to this forum for assistance. Imagine the 100's of pieces of "advise" if you had posted this issue on FB, lol... We certainly don't want to treat an experience fish keeper as a newbie, but the fact is if someone is new to discus, there is much to learn that does not cross the standards of the every day hobby. The questions we ask are discus specific!

I recently saw where someone said they were experience, yet placed a UV light inside their tank and wondered why their discus all got sick and blind (that was a sad event).

The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus. I don't keep many other tropicals, but I've read that a level of 20+ nitrates is fine with many people. With discus it's crucial to keep nitrates <5, and even more crucial with young discus, which is why we do the water changes. And even trace amounts of ammonia can be lethal to discus, and even more so with juvies.

I also noticed the single sponge filter. While they are rated for a 125g tank, I use 3 of them in each of my 55g tanks.

Since discus have a slime coat, rather than scales, they are more prone to cross contamination, which is why we QT discus for up to 6 weeks. You said you added some about 2 weeks before this issue, but you didn't say if you QT'd them, but 2 weeks is usually about the time issues arise after adding new discus. Even if the new discus had no pathogens, it's quite possible your filter did have pathogens that the discus had not been exposed to.

We could go on and on talking about how unique discus are, but at this point I highly recommend keeping up with the routine you have begun. Once we get past this, we can work on the finer details :D

I totally agree Jeep "The fact is that discus are very easy to keep, as long as you treat them as discus" :)

[eugenefish]

Much like you, I have only had discus for about 5 weeks, but I have 25 years experience in keeping fish including saltwater reefs, planted tanks, and MANY freshwater. I can tell you that I spent months on this site reading, researching, and preparing for discus. The biggest thing I learned in all of this, is stability and cleanliness are key to success. As a result, I set up a semi-automatic water change routine (using RO/DI because I have a 400gpd system for my reef tank) that changes out 30 gallons a day (~18%). I test my nitrates a couple times a week, to ensure that the water changes are adequate. If I see nitrates rising, I do extra water changes to bring it back down. Typically this is not neccessary, but I have the option because I test regularly. I put MUCH more time and energy into this tank than any of my reef tanks. I have, so far, found that discus are not hard to keep, but require a serious commitment to keep them happy and health.

So, what is my point? Having years of experience with tropical fish is great, but it is not the same as having years of experience with Discus. I am pretty comfortable in saying that I have more experience with fishkeeping, overall, than many people on this forum. Yet, I learn something from the people here everyday. There is always more to learn and someone with more knowledge and experience than you. We are ALL here to learn and help each other.

You have been given lots of advice, ultimately it is up to you to decide what advice you follow and what you disregard. Just remember that none of us have any investment in your tank, we just want to see you succeed. So please don't get offended when people ask for basic information or come across as treating you like a "newbie". They are simply trying to help.

Finally, if you were to get nothing else from this entire thread these would be the top recommendations I have seen (in no particular order):

1. Water changes are your friend :)
2. Age your water - while all of your tanks may measure 7.6 pH, your water from the tap may not be.
3. Water changes are your friend :) :)
4. Test your water regularly - either yourself or at the LFS
5. Water changes are your friend :) :) :)

Totally agree with you Lyle. Water change are your friend and for the discus. 99% of the problems/issues with discus can be prevented by daily water change.

[LizStreithorst]

Good post, Lyle.

[Firecraca]

I appreciate all the suggestions I have been given and all the interest this thread has received. I'm just of the opinion that if you don't know to use dechlorinator, you shouldn't be keeping fishtanks. By no means am I saying I know everything, or even most things about fishkeeping, especially when it comes to this advanced fish. I'm sorry if I come off as defensive or ungrateful, I just believe all aquarists, no matter how "experienced", are capable of making mistakes, and yes, dumb decisions. Like not having a test kit. With that said I will take everything into consideration, and continue with my current salt treatment and add furan 2 to the regimen if necessary. Will update. Thanks again!

[Firecraca]

Update on sick discus:

Last night I did a 90% water change and started my third day on the salt treatment.

Today my test kit arrived and after testing the water im happy to say that only my ammonia was above 0. level was in between 0 and .25 ppm.

Also tested my reservoir tank for ph swing and there is a slight swing .2 from a 7.4 tap to 7.6 aged water.

Sick discus is still kicking it, hope to save him/her. Noticed that I was feeding them too much and before my daily water change I noticed the fish were unhappy. Today I did a small feeding and the fish have maintained a happier behavior throughout the day.

Thnx again for all the suggestions. I would be one sad Discus owner without everyone.

I think I'll take out the old penguin 350, fill it with lava rock and use it as a second filter for this tank.

[Sturiosoma]

My thoughts on your tank I see your feeding raw beef heart, and while some people still use this as fish food, this is a very old you could almost say antique food that people used way back in the day before quality fish food came along and while it may be high in protein there is no quicker way to foul your tank than by putting red blood in your tank, that may explain your amonium issues if it were me I would eliminate that from my feeding regimen and replace with freeze dried blackworm or even live blackworm used sparingly, and your ph swings and I'm sure this is gonna go over good if you're getting a swing at 90% try cutting back a little to where you don't get a swing and finally on a 55gal I wouldn't hesitate to hang a aquaclear 110 filter running wide open on that tank after all water quality is what we're looking for I would maintain the salt treatment as prescribed but I think if you get your amonium and ph swing under control your fish health is going to improve, just my thoughts

Jeanne

[slicksta]

Monitor closely and stay on the aggressive water changes... a NITRITE spike is headed your way.
You may want to treat your water with Amquel or similar that tetoxifies the Ammonia but doesn't interfere with the filter cycling.
There maybe better products out there to help you cycle quickly

[jeep]

This is sounding positive for you. Keep up the good work. John is correct, keep a close eye out on water quality :o

[jeep]

I would also suggest picking up another sponge filter if possible. Sponges are great for bio load, but not so good for solids...

[Firecraca]

Discus is still looking bad and I’m about to reach my last day of treatment!! I’m considering a salt bath for 5 mins but what dosage do I need for 2 gals of water? Also I hooked up an old penguin 350 with floss on the intake. What should I use for filtration? Lava rock, activated carbon, sponge,what? Furan 2 is on standby but using it as a last resort.

I DONT WANT MY LITTLE DUDE TO DIE!!

I DONT HAVE A QT TANK TO SPARE AND THE REST OF THE FISH STILL HAVE WHITE STUFF ON THEIR FINS

[LizStreithorst]

What's up with this? Just the other day you told us that the fish was doing so much better. Now this...What changed?

[slicksta]

The filter is not cycled... Things are going to get worse.
Treating sick discus while trying to get a filter cycled is a losing battle
The more water changes you do to keep the Ammonia down, the less food for the filter to begin cycling.
You can maybe try the bacteria in a bottle or similar to get it cycled on a fast pace but I have no experience with it or if it works.
I'm afraid you waited too long to find the problem

[Sturiosoma]

Would it help to use amquell with your water changes and amonium sorb in your filter, hopefully Pat will chime in and she will have some ideas

Jeanne

[Red.Aceco]

Thanks for providing the additional information! This is what I was looking for...



Doing water changes with RODI is not necessary, but large water changes are very important at this time, since it appears you have a cross contamination issue cause by improper QT.

I recommend doing 75% (or more) daily water changes with aged and treated water. Also, add 1 TBS salt per gallon, and replace the salt being removed during the water change and back the heat down to 82. Do this for at least 10 days. I would really like to see your ammonia and nitrate levels. Can you pick up a test kit or take a sample to your LFS and have them test it for you? If you don't see an improvement within the first 2-3 days, I would treat the entire tank with Furan 2.

What would you treat your R/O water with prior to placing it in the tank?

[Red.Aceco]

Why would you bring the heat down to 82 degrees? whats the significance between 82 and 86 or 88 for that matter?
Thanks!

[Iminit]

Red this is an old thread. Op hasn’t been around since July. Not sure what’s up with the 82 either. Maybe op started with a temp of 82.

But in reading this thread I just want to point out that api test kits never go bad. The expiration date is just so you go out and buy a new one. I bought a new one a year ago. $20 on sale. I put it up against my 03 test kit and they tested the same. Each vial came out the same color. Expiration date is just to get you to spend money :). They’re the best kit for the price but they still leave a lot to be desired. Oh and in 2003 nitrate wasn’t even a priority. The api kits didn’t include a test for it.127298

As to the op problem. For a beginner without reading up on discus. It’s hard to know what a healthy fish looks like. Not recommended but you can buy pet store discus. You just have to get them when they first come in. Than qt them to make sure there healthy. 5 of mine are store bought and as healthy as the others.