Confused, and Nervous about Tank Water - Help me be successful

[SABander]

Hello Everyone,

I'm sure there are already a million threads that attempt to cover this, but nothing seems to match what I have, or what my past experience is.

Two years ago I made my first jump into discus after reading that "consistency matters more than values" and how many of you run tap water. It definitely didn't go well. I lost all 5 discus over the next 6 months. None of them really grew. I was doing water changes every other day in a BB tank and feeding decent food three times daily. My goal was never to breed, just enjoy.

Part of the issue is that I live in southern ontario where the water might as well be gravel. Aged water has a TDS of 510 and 8.7PH. My hardness is 12deg KH and 15deg GH pre-water softener. After my water softener I'm at 13deg KH and 1 or 2 deg GH. I double checked both sets of results.

I'm at the stage in my life now where I'm ready to be patient, spend the money, and do it right. I'm ordering an RO unit and will have a large container of RO water ready to go at any point.

My main question comes down to how to prepare the water. My LFS is telling me to use 100% RO water and discus buffer, but I've read horror stories about that. The breeder I want to buy the discus from is telling me 100% RO water and fluval substrate to buffer. On these forums I've read to use Muratic acid to bring the PH down. What's the best way for me to balance all of these variables and do my best to maintain a consistent habitat for the fish. I was also planning on using prime in the water.

I'd love to see them breed and go through that at some point, but I will be buying them on the smaller side and wanting them to grow primarily right now. The master plan is 6 or 8 of them in a 120G lightly planted tank eventually once they are full size.

Please help!

[Willie]

My recommendation is a 50/50 mix of RO water and tap. No other additives are necessary.

Good luck, Willie

[LizStreithorst]

I thought the same thing when I first read your post. Willie beat me to answering.

[jeep]

I agree with Willie, and don't worry about lowering ph. You want consistent ph. Never use an acid to lower ph. Not only is it not needed, you can easily create a ph crash and burn your fish alive... I've seen it happen!!

Actually, your water parameters seem fine and are very similar to mine and my discus have no water related issues, although TDS is just a number and doesn't define content. Were you using your softener before? Water softeners strip trace minerals and is not healthy for discus...

[SABander]

Hi. Thanks for the responses.
No, I wasn’t using a water softener before.

I understand keeping the ph stable, but a 50/50 mix would still result in fairly high degrees of kh/gh wouldn’t it?

[LizStreithorst]

Yes, but there's nothing wrong with that. Try it, watch the fish if they start seeing distressed you can always up the pH, but they should be just fine.

[JamesW]

I blend 2/3 RO water with 1/3 pre-water softener tap water to get a TDS ~150 ppm GH/KH ~ 5 from source water similar to SABander.

I used to just blend ~50:50 and my discus were happy but my aging barrel has an indentation at 1/3 so I felt I could get a more consistent water from that than guessing when the barrel was 50% full.

Could it have been an unhealthy stock issue? I would recommend getting your new batch of discus from a forum sponsor. Taking that first step on a sure footing is key!

Edit: pH sits at ~7.4

[SABander]

Thanks for the responses.

My stock could have been a problem, but I bought them at a place in Mississauga that specializes in discus and Flowerhorn.

I will need to look through the forum and see if there are any members in my area with stock

[danotaylor]

All of our SD sponsors ship directly to buyers, so even though you have to pay extra for that service it is well worth it for the peace of mind of receiving quality stock.
Which area of southern Ontario do you live in? If you're close to Detroit Dennis's Discus Fish in Bowling Green Ohio may be in driving distance from where you live. I drove 3 hrs each way to pick up my fish in person from Dennis and it was so worth the trip.

[bluelagoon]

I've gotten discus here and they grew out to be big fish, on aveage 6-7.5 inches. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?134846-Discus-Fish-Room-Tour-amp-Interview-At-Canadian-Aqua-Farm also if you like wilds, I've ordered from here, but would try someplace else for domestics. http://cichlaholic.com/pdf/July%2016.pdf

[klr-dude]

hi ,
i live in southern ontario as well and i'm dealing with the same situations .
i have kept discus for 30 years and breed them as well if you want you can come by and i will show you what i did .
i can even give you some fish to try since i cull regularly .
contact me if you are interested in this .

[LizStreithorst]

What a kind offer, kir-dude. I hope you two get together.

[Mando]

hi ,
i live in southern ontario as well and i'm dealing with the same situations .
i have kept discus for 30 years and breed them as well if you want you can come by and i will show you what i did .
i can even give you some fish to try since i cull regularly .
contact me if you are interested in this .

You're one hell of a person! Kudos!!

[RogueDiscus]

I just want to emphasize the point about mixing your RO with pre-watersoftener water. Water softeners trade usual hard water minerals for other ions, like sodium, that are less "hard" on your laundry, etc, but not necessarily better for your fish. Maybe worse. This is just what I've read here. Find an outside faucet or put a side valve on your line before the softener. That might be what you want to run into your RO filters too, but others should chime in on that.

[LizStreithorst]

I don't know from personal experience but people here who have tried using water from a water softener have run into problems.

[JamesW]

I just want to emphasize the point about mixing your RO with pre-watersoftener water. Water softeners trade usual hard water minerals for other ions, like sodium, that are less "hard" on your laundry, etc, but not necessarily better for your fish. Maybe worse. This is just what I've read here. Find an outside faucet or put a side valve on your line before the softener. That might be what you want to run into your RO filters too, but others should chime in on that.

RO works best with sodium so you get longest life and most efficiency when plumbing the RO system after your water softener. In my basement I tee'd off the water softener outlet to my RO system (that was a sleepless night) and also tee'd off an outdoor spigot for my non-softened water to mix with my RO.

[RogueDiscus]

RO works best with sodium so you get longest life and most efficiency when plumbing the RO system after your water softener. In my basement I tee'd off the water softener outlet to my RO system (that was a sleepless night) and also tee'd off an outdoor spigot for my non-softened water to mix with my RO.

Thanks James! I was working off your previous post to use pre-softener water for mixing. Thanks for fixing this detail.
Steve

[SABander]

Everyone is so helpful. I started my build tonight on the R.O. system. Pre-softener for the mix and post softener for the RO membrane.

Hopefully I can get the mix dialled in

[SABander]

Hey Everyone,
Just wanted to update with some testing I've done.

The new tank comes in this week, but I have my RO mixing station built and running and figured I'd try to get the mixes right.
Here is what I have found

100% RO Water:
PH - 6.2
TDS - 6
GH/KH - 0 (or 1, not sure really how to measure it. The first drop stayed the original colour)

75% RO Water - 25% Unsoftened Tap:
PH - 7.12
TDS - 134
GH/KH - 5

66.6% RO Water - 33.3% Unsoftened Tap:
PH - 7.3
TDS - 164
GH/KH - 6

50% RO Water - 50% Unsoftened Tap:
PH - 7.4
TDS - 260
GH/KH - 8/7

Based on these numbers I'm thinking the 2/3:1/3 might be the best fit for me. My mixing station has a sight glass up the side of the barrel so I can make a mark wherever I need it to be and be pretty consistent.

Thoughts or Advice? I think I'm on the right track.

[JamesW]

Looks good and the numbers are consistent based off your 1:1 mix the 3:1 should be 130 TDS, 2:1 should be 173 and your straight tap 520 so you did a good job measuring!

Any of those ratios would be fine. As you said I'd go with 2:1 mix and your pH might settle slightly in the tank with biological activity but great consistent water and healthy stock are the best place to start.