Anyone struggle with the amount of “waste” water created?

[des275]

Hey Guys,
I’m waiting for a discus arrival at the end of the month and plan to stock my 160 gallon with 12 discus and 150 rummy nose tetras. I’ll be running my overflow to my garden and a drip line will be adding 12 gallons of filtered water a day. I’ll also be vacuuming every week. Monthly, this will be around 500 gallons of water.

It’s difficult for me to wrap my mind around the amount of “waste” water created from the water changes, especially if using RODI that has, at best, 1:1 waste water itself.

Does it bother anyone else or is it just apart of the hobby?

[LizStreithorst]

I knew this before I bought my first Discus. If I hadn't accepted that fact from the get-go I'd have invested in rainbows. or BN pleco or any of the types of fish that turn me on.

[Willie]

I change about 300 gallons daily, everyday.

Willie

[cooper666]

I've been thinking about this, the water that we throw away is expensive in that it's been treated and heated untill its nice and toasty, then throw most of it away the next day.

If we look at what we are throwing away from the eyes of a discus person, the waters no good but to many hardier fish, the water is still exceptional in quality. 20ppm of nitrates is nothing for many species 300ppm is getting pretty high. Anyway, my warm expensive water continually dribbles into my garden, about 400 l a day at the moment. I had a very fleeting vision of a large african cichlid pond,or guppy breeding pond or something else quite large that I could make either aesthetic or productive.

I'm not a discus expert, I've only just purchased my first discus yesterday. 20 years ago I had a few but I was too "smart" LOL in my youth, to keep them well. But I suspect that there are methods or producing quality fish without all of the water changes. Nitrates aren't good but I suspect that there are other things at play which retard discus, growth retarding hormone emission etc. It's hard to find info on it.

For now, keep dumping water but IMO use it and use it well, Its a lot of water and many things would thrive in it.

Hmm, now my minds racing - Maybe outdoor pleco breeding? and the discharge from that could be used to breed guppies, the discharge from that could sustain a very nice pondy type african or american cichlid display. Then feed it to the garden :)

[bluelagoon]

The only problem with the drop method, is that some of the new water will be going straight back down the drain along with the older water. The 12 gallons that would have been changed will only be half that. So, your not changing as much as you think you are. Only wasting more water with this method.

[jeep]

Yes, it's a wasteful hobby. When I first began, this forum was so new I didn't know it existed and I had no idea about water changes or how much water is used. Now I accept it. My ultimate goal is to re-use the water, channeling it out into my garden, landscaping and yard, but that's just another project to construct and I have too many going on now.

As far as using RO, I use the waste water for all non-breeders (when I have them), but then it ultimately still goes down the drain...

[slicksta]

The only problem with the drop method, is that some of the new water will be going straight back down the drain along with the older water. The 12 gallons that would have been changed will only be half that. So, your not changing as much as you think you are. Only wasting more water with this method.

I drip directly into the pump intake back to the aquarium so the water has to make at minimum one pass through the aquarium.
At the point any given water molecule reaches the drain the ratio is probably more than 1000:1 / old:new
In any case... any added cost is well worth the time, effort and efficiency. In other words wc suck... :-D. lol

[eugenefish]

I change about 300 gal per day too. Yes, it is kind of wasting a lot of water. But for the $$$$$$ worth of discus I have, I have no other better choices ;)

[bluelagoon]

I drip directly into the pump intake back to the aquarium so the water has to make at minimum one pass through the aquarium.
At the point any given water molecule reaches the drain the ratio is probably more than 1000:1 / old:new
In any case... any added cost is well worth the time, effort and efficiency. In other words wc suck... :-D. lol

I don't believe your math to be so.The sump will continue to do the same thing. 12 going in ,12 coming out.

[lpsouth1978]

12 gallons for a 160 is still not a lot, even if it is a straight swap, especially if you have juvenile discus. I change 40g daily on my ~180g system with adults Discus.

[des275]

I drip directly into the pump intake back to the aquarium so the water has to make at minimum one pass through the aquarium.
At the point any given water molecule reaches the drain the ratio is probably more than 1000:1 / old:new
In any case... any added cost is well worth the time, effort and efficiency. In other words wc suck... :-D. lol

That’s exactly what I have set up. The drips starts in my sump and at least gets cycled once in my tank before going down the outlet to my garden.

[slicksta]

I don't believe your math to be so.The sump will continue to do the same thing. 12 going in ,12 coming out.

You don't have to believe it as I know I am not losing anywhere near half of the fresh water or my nitrates would be higher.
I've done it both ways and for the last 10+ years I've done a drip and you couldn't pay my water bill to go back to doing water changes.
Not trying to convince you... I actually enjoy hearing about water changes.

@Lyle... I concur. I'm do anywhere from 30g - 50g on my 150g daily, depending on load.

@ des'... Mine stops in a 55g drum where I run a 100' coil of my drip line through as well as a half_ars'd heat exchanger. It's not pretty but I did notice a few degree increase at the tank.
Then to the garden :-)

[des275]

12 gallons for a 160 is still not a lot, even if it is a straight swap, especially if you have juvenile discus. I change 40g daily on my ~180g system with adults Discus.

Thanks, looks like I will increase the drip rate to 40g a day. Especially since the discus will be 2.5-3 inch.

[LizStreithorst]

I have many fewer tanks now. I've cut down on water and electric. I can see the difference in my bills. Still, my Discus tanks still get 30 to 50 percent WC every day on my Discus tanks. I just can't help it. I would feel like I wasn't taking care of them well if I didn't do it.

Slicksta, if the condition fish is good and you're nitrates are low that alone proves that what you're doing is working for you.

[bluelagoon]

If water is costly or rationed in your area, a drip system is not the way to go unless you have money to pay for it. Hear is an old post for a 150 gal tank using drip system. See post #8. This is raw water from the tap. RO water and lot more water will be wasted.https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/63801-easy-diy-automatic-water-change-system.html

[slicksta]

And what is your time and pleasure enjoying the tank more worth to you?

[slicksta]

If water is costly or rationed in your area, a drip system is not the way to go unless you have money to pay for it. Hear is an old post for a 150 gal tank using drip system. See post #8. This is raw water from the tap. RO water and lot more water will be wasted.https://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/63801-easy-diy-automatic-water-change-system.html

Mervin
Take a close look at the #s
If he is correct a 2gph drip is equivalent to a 24% daily wc and using 32% tank volume of water. So your talking the difference of 48g - 36g = 12g additional water each day. Not quite 1/2 the new water down the drain.
He also states that the benefits are second to none and I'm assuming he's talking about water stability.
Add to that.. That I've gone on multiple vacations for as long as 5 weeks without worry.
My weekly maintenance takes me less than an hour
And I never feel guilty for being tired and going to bed without doing a wc.
Come to the dark side... You'll enjoy watching your python crumble from dry rot :-D

[bluelagoon]

Mervin
Take a close look at the #s
If he is correct a 2gph drip is equivalent to a 24% daily wc and using 32% tank volume of water. So your talking the difference of 48g - 36g = 12g additional water each day. Not quite 1/2 the new water down the drain.
He also states that the benefits are second to none and I'm assuming he's talking about water stability.
Add to that.. That I've gone on multiple vacations for as long as 5 weeks without worry.
My weekly maintenance takes me less than an hour
And I never feel guilty for being tired and going to bed without doing a wc.
Come to the dark side... You'll enjoy watching your python crumble from dry rot :-D

Great if you like to go that route. No one said it doesn't have benefits. OP was trying to save water.

[Frankr409]

Drip system calculator.

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php

[slicksta]

Great if you like to go that route. No one said it doesn't have benefits. OP was trying to save water.

The original post says that the waste water will be used in the garden. If you need to water your garden anyway... Is it really wasted? At least in the summer I think not.
In the end, most hobbies have a cost. One approach can be to have a nice pair in a large tank. I have 2 discus in a 120g and they're happy and livin' large with a minimal bioload.

[snxtif]

Build a reservoir, reuse the water for flushing toilet, watering your lawn or even washing your clothes
(half jokingly of course, but in the case, you can always be with your beloved discuss, or at least its "output", anywhere anytime.)

Interesting stat tho, a standard bath tub is more or less the same size as a 5' tank.
So, if you cut your bath in half, you can WC your 5' discus tank!!! woohoooo!

[cooper666]

The continual drip thing is very wasteful and I reckon 50% reduction in efficiency compared to dump and refill is pretty well on the money. For me, water is cheap but heating it is not. At least my heating efficiency is not reduced by 50%, that would get expensive.

On the bright side, the continual drip system should be kinder to the fish in that parameters will remain very stable.

I'm trying to work out how much I have to exchange, I think I'm just going to manage it via nitrate tests and increase/decrease the flow as necessary to keep them below what 10ppm? does that sound right.

[slicksta]

The continual drip thing is very wasteful and I reckon 50% reduction in efficiency compared to dump and refill is pretty well on the money. For me, water is cheap but heating it is not. At least my heating efficiency is not reduced by 50%, that would get expensive.

On the bright side, the continual drip system should be kinder to the fish in that parameters will remain very stable.

I'm trying to work out how much I have to exchange, I think I'm just going to manage it via nitrate tests and increase/decrease the flow as necessary to keep them below what 10ppm? does that sound right.

According to the calculations provided its more like 25% waste.
And yes, nitrate testing is how all water change regime should be determined.

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, water is one of the most renewal resources we have on the planet so when I did a water change I do not consider it wasted. The water from the tank goes into the yard and back into the Florida aquifer where the ground filters the water on the way down. Now I am on a well so only pay for the power to pump the water.
Pat

[slicksta]

Drip system calculator.

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php

According to this calculator dripping 50 gal/day into a 150g tank results in a 15% of wasted water.
42.5g of effective water change out of 50g used
My experience shows this to be more in line with my results.

124511

[cooper666]

Yes but the efficiency diminishes as the flow rate increases. At the extreme - 100% exchange per day, the calculator states efficiency at approx 63% (if I'm using it right)

[cooper666]

You are lucky to live where you do, as am I at the moment. Where I use to live, we had 1ft of rain 30cm in a good year. Water there was not easily renewable, not on a local scale anyway.

[slicksta]

Yes but the efficiency diminishes as the flow rate increases. At the extreme - 100% exchange per day, the calculator states efficiency at approx 63% (if I'm using it right)

If it is an accurate calc... Then yes that is true.
Easy fix is to find the sweet spot of efficiency for your setup. Or if you think you need even more efficiency, supplement with traditional water changes.
Like I stated previously... I've done both and if I have to return to traditional wc's... I'd dump discus all together. This is by far easier and I find that I enjoy the hobby much, much more.
I'm a bit of a geek so even the set up of controllers, floats, water sensors and solenoid valves was enjoyable. 1000 times more enjoyable than buckets and siphons.

And yes we are both lucky to live in areas with a plentiful supply of good quality water. This approach will not work well for all.

[cooper666]

I agree completely, No way in hell am I siphoning thousands of litres of water every week. I'll happily pay a bit extra to skip that.

[bluelagoon]

I would love to have a steady flow of fresh water to my tanks. I live in an apartment and have no way of pumping for this through the walls. I hate the look of hoses or anything like that and if they can't be hinden out of sight, it makes the set up look ugly.

[slicksta]

I would love to have a steady flow of fresh water to my tanks. I live in an apartment and have no way of pumping for this through the walls. I hate the look of hoses or anything like that and if they can't be hinden out of sight, it makes the set up look ugly.

Very good point. . . Logistics is also another consideration.
All my plumbing is hidden so another reason I am happy with the set up.