Discus with white cottony growth and white stringly feces - Please Help!!!

[Tanja]

My new fish are sick and I need some help as soon as possible. :'(

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I got the fish 3 weeks ago. I saw some feces that were lacking in any color for the first few days. There was also some damage to the fins. I treated with Seachem paraguard for 5 days and the problem seemed to go away. A day later I saw a white cottony-like growth in between the eyes of one of the fish. White stringy-feces started a day later. I had fed them frozen brine shrimp the day prior. Fish are pooping A LOT of white and losing weight rapidly. There are also wounds on the scales of the fish. They are still eating well.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

White poop, fungus, rubbing against objects, wounds on the head and scales.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Seachem Paraguard for 5 days 5 ml / 10 gallons. API Melafix and API Pimafix simultaneously for 1 day 5 ml/10 gallons. API Fungus Cure, 1 dose (30 mg/10 gallons). No noticable results yet.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
90 gallons heavily planted tank. 6 discus fish 4-5 inches (3 weeks in the tank), and 10 amano shrimp (4+ months in the tank).

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
10% every 2-3 days.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
6 months. Planted tank substrate (Controsoil), ranges from 2-4 inches deep.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No. pH in the tank is 6.8. Off the tap 7.4.


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Seachem Prime. 1 ml/ 5 gallons. I store it in buckets for 3-4 hrs before placing in the tank.


9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ___83 F__

- ph ___6.8.__

- ammonia reading _0.___

- nitrite reading _0.___

- nitrate reading __10.__

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water __X__

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Only these 6 discus.

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Frozen Brine Shrimp/Beef Heart once daily. Discus Hans flake foods 2-3 times daily.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
My tank is green from fungus cure. I couldn't get any clear pictures.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tanja, is there any way you can put the fish in a hospital tank with clean water? The fish have been subjected to a bunch of meds and very little clean water. Using meds is a planted tank just does not seem to work very well and you seem to have a bunch of stuff happening with the fish.
Pat

[Tanja]

Hi Pat, thank you so much for your fast response. I only have a 5 gallon hospital tank... How big of a tank should I get to accommodate 6 discus? I also have 2 ppm ammonia in my tap water due to chloramines... So I would have to cycle the quarantine tank for water changes to be feasible since I don't have an RO unit and I really can't afford it. Do you think sterilizing the main tank by removing all of the plants/ substrate and doing a big water change would be helpful? I really just need my pets to survive through this ordeal. :'(

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tanja, you will need to remove the fish prior to doing a plant and gravel removal. Is that possible? Do you have an aging barrow like a brute trash can which could act as a holding container for the fish. You can use a dechlorator like prime to detoxic the chloramines.
Pat

[Tanja]

Oh...I put some more controsoil into my tank a few days ago... With fish in the tank. That probably didn't help. I will likely just buy a quarantine tank to keep them in while I'm working on the main tank since a lot of them don't cost that much more than a trash can. How large should it be? Should I also treat the main tank w/ medications while the fish are not in it?

Thank you so much for all your advice!

Tanja

[jeep]

I agree with Pat. You gave some good info but we really need to see a photo of the fish. Where did you get them? LFS or reputable seller? I'm wondering if they came with something or if your shrimp are carriers.

The white feces is usually hex, treated with high heat and metro, but yours are also having external issues, bacterial or fungal, so I would keep the temp down. The white feces can also be worms, in which case a different med will be needed, but we have to get the external issues under control before we move on to that.

10% water changes every 2 or 3 days is insufficient when dealing with a pathogen. Large water changes will reduce the pathogen count and certain treatment may eliminate it depending on what it is. This is nearly impossible in a planted tank with substrate.

I would place them in a bare bottom tank ASAP. How big are they? 6 small discus can be QT'd in as small as a 20g or 30g tank. Check FB marketplace or craigslist for cheaper deals if money is an issue. I would change 75% water daily with aged and temp matched water. If aging is an issue then you can buy a large buute trash can for aging. Just add an air stone. You can use a submersible pump to pump the water or you can use 1 gallon water jugs like I did for the first year I was in the hobby. It's a PITA, but will work. If you are willing to remove the substrate and plants, this is a great option, but I would place the discus in a bucket while you do this or you risk stirring up all kinds of bad stuff. If you do the large water changes, you will be ok with an uncycled filter. The 2ppm ammonia is fine as long as you are using Prime. Sorry if I'm jumping around but you are updating as I am typing, lol...

I would also keep the temp where it is and add salt at 1 TBS per gallon for at least 3 - 5 days, replacing the salt removed during water change. Keep us regularly updated so we can make changes as needed.

Important is where did you get these discus???

[Tanja]

Thank you so much Brian for your input. I got them directly from Discus Hans USA in Maryland. They are his German Stendker discus. That's why I'm having a hard time believing the issue would be with the fish. How would you recommend I treat the external issues in case the API funcus cure doesn't work? Yes I will tear my tank down for these fish any day. Would sand be a feasible option going forward? Or will it always have to be bare bottom? I tried to add a picture but it wouldn't let me. Is there a size limit to the pictures?

I will proceed to buy a 20 gallon tank for treatment tomorrow. How would you recommend that I medicate the tank going forward? I already have metronidazole but I haven't used it yet.

Thank you so much for your help, it is so appreciated.

Tanja

[jeep]

If they are from Hans, I'm certain they did not arrive with an illness. I suspect your shrimp are carriers. Thank you for your willingness to clean the tank out. Many people hesitate or reject this move.

Yes, there is a size limit on photo's. When I take photo's with my phone, i email them to myself and the email automatically resizes. Then save it and you can post.

I'm not yet sure how to proceed. I would like to see what affect the salt has on them first.

Depending on how large they are, I would keep their tank bare bottom until they are 5+ inches. It's so much healthier on young ones and easier to deal with an issue like this.

The most important thing at this time is large water changes with aged water. Discus, especially young ones, are affected by ph swings. 10% per day won't have an affect on ph, 75% will.

[Tanja]

Thank you Brian. Would you advise I get the tank pH to match my tap water exactly? I will definitely remove the planted substrate then as it is lowering my pH. Should I add prime after I have aged the water for a while? Prime only detoxifies ammonia for 24 hrs and last time I aged water in buckets w/ Prime over night stressed them out. They came back to normal after I dosed the whole tank with Prime.

I was able to add some pictures now. The fungus can be seen in between the eyes, right above the mouth. It has grown today since I took these pictures. So I will get the quarantine tank tomorrow as soon as the stores open and update you with more pictures. Do you recommend epsom salt or what kind of salt?

Thank you for all your support. This is really breaking my heart to see them go through this. :'(

[jeep]

I add Prime as I am adding the water to my tank and I only squirt in enough to estimate what I'm putting in, although it's pretty hard to OD prime. And yes, you want to age your water as close as possible ph to the tank water. This shouldn't take too long, maybe 24 hours at the most if you do daily water changes. If you want to do more water changes, it's better as long as the water is aged. During the summer when the air is warmer, I don't even aerate and it's good to go.

Epsom is for constipation. You want regular salt with no additives. Table salt will work, but I buy Solar Salt from HD. 40lbs for about $5 and I just have it on hand at all times. I really don't use it that much, but for the cost it's worth it.

I really don't think this is fungal. I suspect you have a protozoa that s attacking the slime coat and the white stuff is either a reaction or bacteria being opportunistic. The salt alone may take care of this, but we will know about 2 or 3 days after you begin treatment...

Here's a good read if you have time. It shows the progression of a similar issue... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135228-Hero-fish-question

[Tanja]

Thank you Brian, would you advise that I get a sponge filter, an air stone or both to the quarantine tank? Also the water in their tank is much softer (2 kH, 5 GH) than my tap (8GH, 4 kH) due to the plants consuming a lot of minerals. Should I raise these up to tap water levels in the tank before I put the discus into straight tap water tank? I've been doing small frequent water changes to keep things consistent.

As for the main tank, I would agree that the shrimp might be carriers of something. I grew all of my plants from tissue cultures and every rock and driftwood I put into the tank was sterile in my attempt to avoid these very issues. So I will get rid of the shrimp. What about the rest of the tank? Besides for replacing the substrate, can I keep the stones, driftwood etc.? And I have a fluval fx4 full of biomedia... Will this have to be replaced as well? :'(

Thank you for the link. I assume Diamond Crystals salt pellets from Home Depot would work?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tanja, I would suggest two large sponges (and heater) and an air pump with two outlets to drive the sponges. Since your situation is a bit different then mine you could do a 50% water change their current tank prior to moving the fish to the hospital tank. I suspect moving the fish to the hospital tank without do a water change on the main tank would be fine. You could setup the hospital tank with clean, warm water and allow the sponges to age the water a bit prior to moving the fish.

I will let Brian comment on the salt since the salt you mention is for a water softener. As for the contents of the main tank you might consider potting the plants and giving the rocks and wood a good rinse. Best to focus on the fish for now however.
Pat

[jeep]

Thank you for the link. I assume Diamond Crystals salt pellets from Home Depot would work?

As long as it doesn't contain any additives, any salt will be fine. I just use this because it's cheaper https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diamond-Crystal-Solar-Naturals-Water-Softener-Salt-Crystals-100012454/100172669

Around here, it's usually on pallets near the exit doors.

Brian

[Mando]

Thank you Brian, would you advise that I get a sponge filter, an air stone or both to the quarantine tank? Also the water in their tank is much softer (2 kH, 5 GH) than my tap (8GH, 4 kH) due to the plants consuming a lot of minerals. Should I raise these up to tap water levels in the tank before I put the discus into straight tap water tank? I've been doing small frequent water changes to keep things consistent.

As for the main tank, I would agree that the shrimp might be carriers of something. I grew all of my plants from tissue cultures and every rock and driftwood I put into the tank was sterile in my attempt to avoid these very issues. So I will get rid of the shrimp. What about the rest of the tank? Besides for replacing the substrate, can I keep the stones, driftwood etc.? And I have a fluval fx4 full of biomedia... Will this have to be replaced as well? :'(

Thank you for the link. I assume Diamond Crystals salt pellets from Home Depot would work?

if you're going to move them to a QT tank just so you're able to remove the substrate and plants from the main tank, then just a stone and some of the old tank water would suffice. It shouldn't take that long to remove substrate and 100% of the contaminated water from the other tank and add new water.

I do what Brian does. I add prime as I add my aged water. For adult discus, 50% water changes every two days works for me; more is better. I also age my water right outside my window in a 55g food grade drum. You could use a new trashcan from HD as it is cheaper than a drum.

[Tanja]

Pat, the guarantine tank is now ready with two sponge filters and a heater in it. I haven't moved the fish in there yet, they're still active and eating although one of them has developed a sunken belly. It seems one of them still has damage to the scales although the white stuff in the forehead is healing. How long can I wait for the quarantine tank to mature before moving the fish? Today I've dosed it with stability and prime. I wasn't going to move anything there from my current set-up since it is clearly infected.

Brian, I got the salt you recommended. Do you recommend a permanent quarantine w/the salt over a salt dip?

I'm so grateful your help and for this awesome community.

Here are some updated pictures of the fish.

Tanja

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tanja, give the QT a chance to age a bit and the water to warm. Be aware that the QT is an uncycled tank and will require large daily water changes to control ammonia and nitrites. Are you ready for this?
Pat

[Tanja]

YES!!! My only concern is the ammonia from the break-up of chloramines from my tap... I know prime detoxifies it but can it still irritate their gills or damage their fins even more?

[jeep]

You could do a salt dip, but I would do a 3-5 day treatment. Just don't go with that heavy of a concentration for more than a week or so because it can damage internal organs over time.

[jeep]

YES!!! My only concern is the ammonia from the break-up of chloramines from my tap... I know prime detoxifies it but can it still irritate their gills or damage their fins even more?

Not that I'm aware of. You should be fine using prime

[Tanja]

Sounds good. The 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon is okay to keep them in for 3-5 days though?

[jeep]

You should be fine with that ;)

[Tanja]

Thank you Brian! I was going to finish the fungus treatment in the main tank since it seems to be helping while I let the quarantine tank cycle a little bit. Is this a bad idea?

[jeep]

How much longer do you have with the fungus treatment? I was going to possibly suggest Furan 2 but not right away if they are already being treated with a different med. This could be harmful as well.

[Tanja]

The last dose is today and then it says to wait for 48 hrs and do a water change. I guess at that 48 hr mark I could transition them to quarantine? Or is it putting them at too much risk? One of them has gotten a sunken belly from whatever parasite is in him causing the white feces...

[jeep]

Tanja, I'm not a fan of using meds without knowing the exact issue and exact med to use, and I even resist more to starting or stopping meds prematurely, but I think in your case these fish need fresh water and salt ASAP. I don't think the fungal med you are using will be of benefit anyway because it's not treating the primary issue, only the secondary. I also would not begin another med since they've been exposed to other recently and there is a risk of organ damage by using additional meds so soon. I would begin your salt treatment and water change treatment rather than wait another 2 days. And, after reading up on some previous posts, your discus can easily handle the salt treatment for up to 10 days. If after 3 or 4 days of fresh water and salt, you don't see some sort of improvement, I would consider picking up some Furan 2. This may give the organs time to rest, and the osmotic pressure of the salt may help clean out their system as well.

Here's another thread from recent history you may be interested in... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135110-devastated

[Tanja]

Thank you so much Brian, I'm moving them to the quarantine tank now. The tap ammonia came down to 0 just storing it over night w/ stability, so I think this will be good.

Is there a reason you recommend furan 2 over metronidazole? I currently have metro in my drawer... but if you think it's too much then I won't use it. Thank you, I'm on my way to the salt treatment now!

[jeep]

Furan 2 is more for external issues like bacteria and protozoa. You want lower temps because bacteria likes heat. Metro is better for internal issues like Hex and works best against hex with a temp of 93.. I believe you can use the two at the same time but your fish have had quite a bit of meds lately so I would hesitate using both. Your main goal is to take care of the external issues now, and if they come out of this with hex then you could use high heat and metro.

I think you have a good chance at beating this with just the salt, but like I said, if you don't see even a slight improvement within 3-4 days, then you can consider using the Furan 2.

[Tanja]

Sounds good thank you!

[Tanja]

So they've all undergone the salt treatment for two days now and I haven't seen any white feces. This morning one of them was having difficulty staying upright; I don't see any external signs of illness on him, just very pale and doesn't want to stay upright. Should I stop the salt treatment on him? Some of them still have damage on their fins and one has some kind of bronze color on the scales... This really worries me.

Tanja

[jeep]

Try a 50% water change without replacing the salt. At this level, I doubt salt is the issue but this will confirm that. Let us know if there are any changes after this.:o

[Tanja]

Thank you Brian. It seems the move to the quarantine tank really stressed them out... I tried to be gentle with a net but they kept splashing and I think the fins got damaged in the process. How long should I wait before I move them back? I took the gravel out of the main tank yesterday and I'm in the process of cleaning and replacing everything, maybe not the filter media though or I'll lose my cycle? What do you think?

[jeep]

I suspect that stress is the issue with it leaning over. If you see no change after doing a 50% then I would return to normal dosage. I would stay on your present course for at least the full 10-12 days. In their weakened state, moving too soon could could create even more stress. Since you've removed the plants and gravel, you could re-treat the main tank if needed.

[Tanja]

Thank you so much Brian. Do you think it would be a good idea to treat the main tank with something like potassium permanganate before moving the fish back in?

[jeep]

I think this would be the perfect time to do this. I would also bleach the entire exterior as well. You can't be too cautious!

[Tanja]

I agree that sounds like a very good idea. My only worry is that it's got to be stressful for them to be in an uncycled tank that long... I've been doing 75% water changes in their tank now twice daily because ammonia keeps rising. :(

[jeep]

If that's the case, you may want to consider moving them into the main tank after you sterilize it and age the new water. Just remember sterilize your old filter media as well. You will still have an uncycled tank but with the larger volume you should be able to keep the ammonia in check with water changes.

[jeep]

Al recommended to double check the amount of salt you're using which is a good point. Depending on the type or coarseness of the salt, you can accidentally use too much. If you do the water change without replacing the salt, you should know very quickly if this is the case...

[Tanja]

I think I may have made a mistake in administering the salt. I hammered the salt crystals into smaller pieces so that I could measure them and then I just dumped them into the tank. It was taking longer than I realized to dissolve... and it was eaten. Only one of them has external issues now though and even his fins are healing. The one that was leaning down does it still but typically only when he's trying to eat something or when the others are close to him.

So I will bleach everything then, how long after that is it safe to add fish into the tank? I would also like to keep some plants that were attached to rocks. I wonder how long I should keep the plants separated to make sure they won't be carrying a parasite?...

[jeep]

I would run PP through everything that's going back into the tank, especially the plants. You will have to search the internet for that procedure unless it's here somewhere. I've never done it, but plants should always be PP'd anyway, just as all discus need to be QT'd.

Discus eating salt is not a bad thing. It's actually pretty common.

It sounds like you are already seeing some improvement. You did a lot of work and it's paying off. Nice!!

[Tanja]

Yes it's been a lot of hard work! I wonder how long I should soak/rinse the media etc. after the bleach treatment? The smell is there a little bit no matter how hard I try.

[jeep]

If the smell is there, the bleach is there. Rinse, rinse, rinse...

[Tanja]

Enough time spent with the bleach... I decided to go with all new driftwood and media LoL. Meanwhile the hospital tank is now able to keep ammonia at 0 for the 12 hrs after each water change. I kind of feel like I should still tret them with something... or maybe continue the salt treatment? It's been 4 days. I saw some colorless feces in the tank today. Or could it be the salt now giving them diarrhea? Otherwise they seem pretty healthy. :)

[jeep]

I would keep up with the salt for the full course and time. Can you give us a recent photo?

[danotaylor]

Regular salt shouldn't give them diarrhea, Epsom salt could as it has a laxative effect and is good for intestinal blockages in bloated fish, but it doesn't adversely affect (kill) bacteria

[Tanja]

Will do. First one is the guy who had white growth in his nose.

[Tanja]

Brian I'm using the salt you linked me to, with that coarseness of the salt would you advise 20 tablespoons for 20 gallons is still okay? I put 10 in there after a 15 gallon water change this morning just in case.

[jeep]

I think you will be ok. Since the salt is so coarse, there's a lot of air between the chunks, so actually a level TBS maybe a bit short. Your fish are looking very good so I wouldn't be worried about under dosing a bit. I just usually use a level measuring cup when I use salt so there's nothing exact about the amount I use. If you OD them, they will let you know by laying down. Just don't go much beyond the 10 days. Long term exposure to salt can be just as harmful as it is beneficial for the short term.

[Tanja]

Thank you Brian. I think they look very healthy as well although at least one of them still has the white poo issue... Hopefully the salt will take care of it though. :)

[Tanja]

Hey Brian this is the kind of poop one of them had coming out today. He didn't eat this morning and I quickly found out why. The salt has definitely taken care of the external issues though. Would metronidazole be a bad idea at this point? Or should I wait a few days after the salt treatment before I put them on it? This is their 5th day in the salt.

Best,
Tanja

[jeep]

I would finish with the salt, give them a weeks rest and if it continues then treat with 93 degree heat and metro for 10 days. It's actually looking very good for such a short time.

[Tanja]

Sounds good! Can't go wrong with this much advice. Thank you so much!

[Mando]

Sounds good! Can't go wrong with this much advice. Thank you so much!

Any updates, Tanja?

[Tanja]

Thank you for asking Mando! One of the fish jumped out of his hospital tank today. :'( I found him 3-6 hrs later and put him in a bucket with an airstone and miraculously enough, he's recovering although very seriously injured. I think it happened due to ammonia. I decided to tear my tank down due to all the problems I was having but not having a cycled tank to put them into now is a BIG problem. I've tried every bacteria bottle I could find and stability fixes the issue for about 3 hrs... Every water change only makes things worse due to 2 pp ammonia in my tap. :'( Do you have any suggestions? I thought about taking them to my local pet store until my tank has finished cycling. But of course that risks bringing in new pathogens. I don't know. If you've been through this I would love to hear from you!

[Mando]

I think that taking your fish to the LFS is a BIG mistake. What size is your qt tank? The bigger the tank, the more stable the water will remain. Prime detoxifies ammonia. Use 2x’s the recommended dose. You could use up to 5x’s with Prime.

I’m currently growing 7 discus and I’ve done 12 waterchanges directly from tap. My water has ammonia, but I use double prime. My main tank gets aged water and it’s cycled so I have no issue there.

I know you feel like you’re spiraling down and I was there a year ago. It will get better! It’s frustrating but stick it out a bit longer.

Also, Feed lightly for now; once a day. Me personally, I would stop feeding daily until the tank is up and running and ammonia is not an issue. Get your other tank running asap. I would also do what Brian mentioned on his last post. Start metro for 10 days, no food. The fish that jumped out, was he the one with the white feces?

[Tanja]

Mando, yes indeed I saw white feces on the one who jumped out too. My 90 gallon has been up for 5 days now, still reading ammonia even with me not adding anything besides for bacteria.

As for the quarantine tank, how often should I dose prime? On the bottle it says 24 hrs and some say 48 hrs, can I overdose them if I double dose daily with each water change?

Thank you so much for your support, I was crying hysterically when I saw him on the floor there yesterday, I thought to myself that I made a big mistake in getting these poor fish. I will put them on metro today! And I will keep you posted. :)

[Mando]

Mando, yes indeed I saw white feces on the one who jumped out too. My 90 gallon has been up for 5 days now, still reading ammonia even with me not adding anything besides for bacteria.

As for the quarantine tank, how often should I dose prime? On the bottle it says 24 hrs and some say 48 hrs, can I overdose them if I double dose daily with each water change?

Thank you so much for your support, I was crying hysterically when I saw him on the floor there yesterday, I thought to myself that I made a big mistake in getting these poor fish. I will put them on metro today! And I will keep you posted. :)

Your 90g will show ammonia until it cycles.

I only dose prime when doing WC's. Each thread on the cap is 10g worth, one cap full is 50g worth. If you do a 50% on a 40g tank, you can dose, as a minimum, 2 threads worth or a 2x cap full as the MAX. I never do max dose but it shouldn't hurt the fish. The recommended dose of prime will detoxify 1ppm of ammonia. If your water comes in at 2ppm, then double your dose. For the pros, correct me if i'm wrong, even if prime detoxifies the ammonia, the ammonia test will still show ammonia in your tank, correct?

I would be hesitant to start metro on the one injured fish (jumper). Lets see what others say.

[Second Hand Pat]

Your 90g will show ammonia until it cycles.

I only dose prime when doing WC's. Each thread on the cap is 10g worth, one cap full is 50g worth. If you do a 50% on a 40g tank, you can dose, as a minimum, 2 threads worth or a 2x cap full as the MAX. I never do max dose but it shouldn't hurt the fish. The recommended dose of prime will detoxify 1ppm of ammonia. If your water comes in at 2ppm, then double your dose. For the pros, correct me if i'm wrong, even if prime detoxifies the ammonia, the ammonia test will still show ammonia in your tank, correct?

I would be hesitant to start metro on the one injured fish (jumper). Lets see what others say.

Yes, on the prime question. It is called a false positive lol.

I would suggest waiting on the jumper too. Give it a couple days of clean water to recover and then see if further action is needed.
Pat

[Mando]

You gave me chills when I read, " I thought to myself that I made a big mistake." Please don't think like this. This happens to the best of us and trust me, follow everyone's advice here and you will be fine. Thanks to simply, I still have some fish from my first batch that I DESTROYED. I would have regretted if I moved on from Discus. I even wanted to put the fish out of their misery and I googled the fastest and cleanest way to kill the fish to end suffering, but I saw improvement right when I was ready to end my discus journey.

If you want, after the medication is done and the fish recuperate, I can share my number with you so I can tell you what maintenance routine worked for me and the MINIMUM standard that I have in place to take care of my fish. The metro has to go for 10 to 13 days without missing a day and without missing a water change.

It feels like a lot of work now, but this would be the case with any fish when they are sick. I had my pond crash once (I made a mistake) and I had over 50 totes with all my important kois medicating and salt dipping each koi. I have over 80 kois and over 200 cichlids in my pond. It's been 3 years now and I do nothing but turn a valve to clean my filter. It's a self cleaning system I built. Lesson learned: I QT every fish that goes through my front driveway. It can come from our President and I'll still QT.


Yes, on the prime question. It is called a false positive lol.

I would suggest waiting on the jumper too. Give it a couple days of clean water to recover and then see if further action is needed.
Pat

Thanks, Pat :)

[Tanja]

You guys are amazing, thank you so much! Mando, I would so appreciate if you gave me your number, sounds like our tap water is similar so I would be glad to follow your maintenance routine. Is 50% water changes a day good during metro or should it be more?

Thanks Pat, I suppose I'll keep the jumper on his own, and start metro on the others today. I just threw him into a 5 gallon bucket in a hurry when I panicked, he was completely dry to touch when I found him. Should I move him to a 20 gallon tote that I have or would the move stress him out too much?

[Mando]

You guys are amazing, thank you so much! Mando, I would so appreciate if you gave me your number, sounds like our tap water is similar so I would be glad to follow your maintenance routine. Is 50% water changes a day good during metro or should it be more?

Thanks Pat, I suppose I'll keep the jumper on his own, and start metro on the others today. I just threw him into a 5 gallon bucket in a hurry when I panicked, he was completely dry to touch when I found him. Should I move him to a 20 gallon tote that I have or would the move stress him out too much?
20g tote would be better. Fill it with water and heat it add a stone and a sponge filter. That’s insane that he was dry to the touch and survived.

[Second Hand Pat]

20g tote would be better. Fill it with water and heat it add a stone and a sponge filter. That’s insane that he was dry to the touch and survived.

Agree with Armando on the 20 gallon tote. The larger volume of water will lessen the ammonia etc buildup between WCs.
Pat

[jeep]

Hi Tanja, I'm sorry you seem to have had a setback here. Don't beat yourself up over this... it happens. I may miss something if I read back through so let's kinda start fresh from the last 2 days... I want to separate the white feces issue from the external issue and treat them separately. The white feces is probably a side effect from the original illness and is not an immediate concern.

Do they seem to be coming out of the external issue? In many cases the salt alone will take care of this, but Furan 2 may be needed if there's no improvement. I just don't like using meds if they aren't necessary.

Your water - I wouldn't be concerned with slight ammonia readings if you are using Prime. Like Pat said, Prime can give false positive readings for ammonia. The element is still there but has been neutralized for good but you can add a little extra if you think it's needed.

Are you aging your water? Are you changing water daily?

The bottled bacteria - How much have you added? I've never use this stuff so I'm not sure if it can create an issue if too much is added. When I've had an uncycled tank, I just keep up with water changes and the filters always seed themselves.

The jumper - this can be very bad, but if it's still alive it may bounce back and it's a good sign if it's still alive after this much time. I would keep lights off when you are not doing maintenance.

Can you give us a photo of the whole tank?

[jeep]

Thanks Pat, I suppose I'll keep the jumper on his own, and start metro on the others today. I just threw him into a 5 gallon bucket in a hurry when I panicked, he was completely dry to touch when I found him

I had an angelfish pair once and the male jumped while i was at school. When i found him, he was dried up and hard and actually stuck to the floor. Appeared dead, but i tossed him back into the tank and I guess he rehydrated because he came back to life, lol... He never was the same after that but he actually tried spawning again. I think he lived for another year or so...

[Tanja]

I may miss something if I read back through so let's kinda start fresh from the last 2 days... I want to separate the white feces issue from the external issue and treat them separately. The white feces is probably a side effect from the original illness and is not an immediate concern.


So I stopped the salt treatment on the 12th. The external issues seemed gone, and they seemed very stressed, getting darker etc. I come home from school the next day and this one I now call Daedalus was laying on the floor... As per other members' advice I've isolated him (about to put him into a 20 gallon tote once the water has aged). The other 5 just received their first treatment of metro. I've kept seeing stringy poo in the tank and they've had it for almost a month now. I've added some pictures for you to see.



Are you aging your water? Are you changing water daily?
Yes, I keep it heated and aerated for 24 hrs before adding it into their tank. I've been doing 70% water changes twice daily on the 20 gallon quarantine tank.


The bottled bacteria - How much have you added? I've never use this stuff so I'm not sure if it can create an issue if too much is added. When I've had an uncycled tank, I just keep up with water changes and the filters always seed themselves.

In my 90 gallon with no livestock I used Dr Tim's one and only, followed by stability and now bioballs. Ammonia is still at 2 ppm on day 5. The quarantine tank only receives the recommended dosage of Seachem Stability, which seems to bring their ammonias down. I'm afraid to add my fish to the uncycled 90 gallon in case it's the dead bacteria there now creating the ammonia...


I had an angelfish pair once and the male jumped while i was at school. When i found him, he was dried up and hard and actually stuck to the floor. Appeared dead, but i tossed him back into the tank and I guess he rehydrated because he came back to life, lol...

This is exactly what happened to me! LoL He could have been on the floor there anywhere from 1-6 hrs. I honestly didn't even realize he was still alive when I put him in the bucket but here he is 24 hrs later, growing out new fins! Yesterday he was gasping and today seems to be doing a lot better although he is purple on his side.

[Tanja]

I would have regretted if I moved on from Discus. I even wanted to put the fish out of their misery and I googled the fastest and cleanest way to kill the fish to end suffering, but I saw improvement right when I was ready to end my discus journey.

LoL this is actually exactly what I was doing last night. But these fish are the whole reason I came back to the hobby after a decade so there's no way I'm giving up on them now. I kept angelfish and african cichlids from when I was 10-16 years old.


I had my pond crash once (I made a mistake) and I had over 50 totes with all my important kois medicating and salt dipping each koi. I have over 80 kois and over 200 cichlids in my pond. It's been 3 years now and I do nothing but turn a valve to clean my filter. It's a self cleaning system I built. Lesson learned: I QT every fish that goes through my front driveway. It can come from our President and I'll still QT.
Lesson learned here as well it's been a lot of tears and sweat because of what I think was carried by some nerite snails I kept floating in a bag above my tank. I didn't even release them because I saw they were diseased. I thought I waited long enough before I got my discus but I guess not.


If you want, after the medication is done and the fish recuperate, I can share my number with you so I can tell you what maintenance routine worked for me and the MINIMUM standard that I have in place to take care of my fish. The metro has to go for 10 to 13 days without missing a day and without missing a water change.

Do you know how to send private messages on here? If not I can share with you my email.

Brian asked for a picture of the whole tank, so here it is.

[Tanja]

Agree with Armando on the 20 gallon tote. The larger volume of water will lessen the ammonia etc buildup between WCs.
Pat

Thank you Pat. My only concern is the black bottom of it, I'm not really able to see the poop in there... Also I have to keep it on the floor so I can't vacuum it. My space in the house is very limited. How many days should I keep him separated? Or maybe I could even put him into the 90 gallon which is currently cycling?

[Mando]

You’re on the road to recovery! Their appearance looks good and don’t look thin. They should start eating soon. Only keep Deadalus in there until he has recovered from the fall. If he has fully recovered from the fall then join him with the others. Only you know your fish so you should be able to tell when he is acting normal. You can scoop out the poo with a net and you can add salt if he has rapid breathing or damaged film on the skin.

You just cleaned the 90 and this one still has the parasite issue. Don’t put him in there. Make sure to cover the QT tank. I noticed it didn't have a lid from the picture unless you have one of those thin plexi covers.

[Tanja]

You’re on the road to recovery! Their appearance looks good and don’t look thin. They should start eating soon. Only keep Deadalus in there until he has recovered from the fall. If he has fully recovered from the fall then join him with the others. Only you know your fish so you should be able to tell when he is acting normal. You can scoop out the poo with a net and you can add salt if he has rapid breathing or damaged film on the skin.

He ate today! LoL. But his colors are faded and he has a serious injury that kind of looks like a heater burn on his side. But my heater there doesn't get that hot so it must be from the fall. He's shed most of his old fins and scales and grown new ones now.


You just cleaned the 90 and this one still has the parasite issue. Don’t put him in there. Make sure to cover the QT tank. I noticed it didn't have a lid from the picture unless you have one of those thin plexi covers.
You're absolutely right on that. How long do you think the parasites can live without a host? And how long from your experience can these fish survive in such a small tank? I do 50% water changes twice daily. I had a cover on it but they got so freaked out whenever I put it on or took it out (which I had to put them through 2-4 times daily) that I decided to take it out... It's black so it creates shadows. I'll try to find a glass lid for it somewhere.

[Mando]

He ate today! LoL. But his colors are faded and he has a serious injury that kind of looks like a heater burn on his side. But my heater there doesn't get that hot so it must be from the fall. He's shed most of his old fins and scales and grown new ones now.


You're absolutely right on that. How long do you think the parasites can live without a host? And how long from your experience can these fish survive in such a small tank? I do 50% water changes twice daily. I had a cover on it but they got so freaked out whenever I put it on or took it out (which I had to put them through 2-4 times daily) that I decided to take it out... It's black so it creates shadows. I'll try to find a glass lid for it somewhere.

Petco and petsmart has the 30g breeder clear cover and petsmart price matches its partner site, chewey.com.

[Tanja]

The jumper - this can be very bad, but if it's still alive it may bounce back and it's a good sign if it's still alive after this much time. I would keep lights off when you are not doing maintenance.


Do you think it would be a good idea to treat him with Api Furan or should I just let him heal in his own time? He has a serious burn on his side and he's lost a lot of color.

[jeep]

I would keep an eye on him. Maybe add about 2-3 TBS salt to help build slime coat. He may live, but may never be the same again. At least a good learning experience. I'm surprised it's lasted this long. Great job!!

[Tanja]

I would keep an eye on him. Maybe add about 2-3 TBS salt to help build slime coat. He may live, but may never be the same again. At least a good learning experience.

Thank you Brian. I've been using Fritz' guard with aloe vera in it to help with the slime coat. It has some other natural ingredients in it as well that have helped him a lot. I would do salt but he's been through so much of it lately. What do you think may have caused him to jump?

[jeep]

Good thinking on keeping up with the slime coat!! As far as jumping, it could be anything. It could be from the stress of recovery, a shadow it didn't like or even another discus bumping into it at the wrong time.

One of my contest discus appeared to hit something and I thought it was either scarred for life or going to die. The next day it was fine and looked like nothing ever happened, lol...
124916

[Tanja]

One of my contest discus appeared to hit something and I thought it was either scarred for life or going to die. The next day it was fine and looked like nothing ever happened, lol...
124916

LoL That's incredible! My jumper is still alive too, when I tossed him into a bucket I didn't even know if he was living but I did it just in case. His colors are still faded and he's not eating, in fact I wonder if he can see the food... he might be blind actually. But the fact he's still alive on day 3 from the jump alone is amazing. So if anyone ever claimed these guys are not hardy I've just proven them wrong. They just need to be cared for like any fish.

[Mando]

how are the fish holding up? any updates?

[Tanja]

how are the fish holding up? any updates?

Thank you for asking!! Yes, Daedalus (the jumper) just finished eating his beef heart for the first time! I'm so happy. 4 of the 5 seem healthy, one of them still isn't eating and she's the one who was pooping the most white...

Oh, and their home is finally about done cycling nitrites, but I'm wondering if Daedalus will be bullied a lot when I finally unite them... I had him in with the others for about 5 minutes yesterday and I had to pull him out, they're being too hostile. So... Should I maybe separate them all from one another before I finally put them back home? They have another 4 days to go with metro. Thanks!!!!

[Mando]

Thank you for asking!! Yes, Daedalus (the jumper) just finished eating his beef heart for the first time! I'm so happy. 4 of the 5 seem healthy, one of them still isn't eating and she's the one who was pooping the most white...

Oh, and their home is finally about done cycling nitrites, but I'm wondering if Daedalus will be bullied a lot when I finally unite them... I had him in with the others for about 5 minutes yesterday and I had to pull him out, they're being too hostile. So... Should I maybe separate them all from one another before I finally put them back home? They have another 4 days to go with metro. Thanks!!!!

Don't put Deadalus in there with them since he was not on the metro treatment. Finish the treatment with the others, check for any other issues and then put them in the main tank. Then put deadalus in qt so you can medicate him.

Have the others shown white feces as of late?

[jeep]

Something Pat told me omes to mind. When you're ready to put them all together, try putting the weakest one (and maybe another small one) in for a few days, then introdu e the rest. Maybe they will hange the pe king order...

Sorry, my keyboard is rapping out and the " " isn't working ;)

[Tanja]

Brian, that's a great idea! I will definitely try that.


Have the others shown white feces as of late?

One of them has a kind of see-through feces, but she's eaten today which she wasn't eating for weeks! The other four and Daedalus seem fine.

BUT I've actually attached a picture, if one of you could help me out and tell me if this tiny white spot in the upper body could be ick, or maybe just damaged scales, I would so appreciate it:

[Mando]

Looks like one of those pimples discus get from poor water quality. Don’t quote me though. Let Brian chime in.

Shouldn’t be ick since you have not introduced fish and they are in 82-88 temp water.

[Tanja]

Looks like one of those pimples discus get from poor water quality. Don’t quote me though.

Oh I WILL!! They've been in an uncycled 20 gallon tank for two weeks!! I've been doing 2 x 50% water changes daily with tap water containing 2 ppm ammonia... Thankfully the tank downstairs is almost ready for them!

But Brian's viewpoint is definitely welcome as well.

[jeep]

Without going back and confusing myself, what temp are they or it at?

Your water has to be good with the amount of WC's, and ich can't really survive at higher temps. Remember, water with chloramines can give false positive readings for ammonia.

To give you a little story, I've been battling with a group I received back in July, ups and downs, eating then not eating, dark and hiding, etc... I finally cranked the temp to 93 and one by one they started eating again and now are looking great. And this was without metro. When treating with metro, high heat is highly recommended.

[Mando]

Hey, Tanja.

Is he always leaning forward like that? or just the angle of the picture?

[Tanja]

Is he always leaning forward like that? or just the angle of the picture?

He did it a couple times today as I was observing him after you said that. He does it when he's grazing for leftovers or could it also be something serious?


Without going back and confusing myself, what temp are they or it at?

Your water has to be good with the amount of WC's, and ich can't really survive at higher temps. Remember, water with chloramines can give false positive readings for ammonia.

I've had them at 85 and today I increased it to 87. I'm worried about the high heats since I haven't been able to feed them very much for the past 2 weeks in the small tank. How often and how much should I feed them if I put it on high heat? As far as I know chloramines will break down into ammonia which Prime will then detoxify further into ammonium. So not as toxic as the real deal but definitely not the best either!


I finally cranked the temp to 93 and one by one they started eating again and now are looking great. And this was without metro. When treating with metro, high heat is highly recommended.

I still have one fish not really eating much... And she's the one with the worst case of this. Should I crank the temp over time to those high levels or can they handle the switch immediately?

Thank you Brian and thank you Armando! I have no doubt my fish would have already perished without all of you.

[jeep]

It seems you may be ready to return them to a larger tank, so I would do that when you are ready and go ahead and turn the heat up to 93 in the hospital tank for any that are still off. They can take it and will hopefully respond to it fairly quickly, and metro is actually more effective with high temps. With the water changes you are doing, I would feed as normal. I'm lucky that mine are still fairly small and are in a 30 QT tank so raising the heat is not hard to do. Can you tell me again how many, how large and what size hospital tank?

Most glass heaters won't go that high. You may want to invest in a titanium heater with external controller. I've had bad luck with digital controllers and prefer manual. I use Via Aqua but they aren't made anymore.

[Tanja]

It seems you may be ready to return them to a larger tank, so I would do that when you are ready and go ahead and turn the heat up to 93 in the hospital tank for any that are still off. They can take it and will hopefully respond to it fairly quickly, and metro is actually more effective with high temps. With the water changes you are doing, I would feed as normal. I'm lucky that mine are still fairly small and are in a 30 QT tank so raising the heat is not hard to do. Can you tell me again how many, how large and what size hospital tank?

I have 2 that are 4-5 inches and 3 that are around 3 inches in the 20 gallon hospital tank. The one who jumped is in his own tank. He's eating aggressively and doesn't have white feces. Do you think I could move him with the first group of healthy ones?


Most glass heaters won't go that high. You may want to invest in a titanium heater with external controller. I've had bad luck with digital controllers and prefer manual. I use Via Aqua but they aren't made anymore.

My eheims have a setting up to 93 but I doubt it will ever really get that high. I set it to 91 and I'm getting 87-89 out of it. If my digital thermometer is accurate that is. I have two and they're 2 degrees apart. :/

[jeep]

Tanja I see no reason for any of your discus to have a problem with the higher temp. As a matter of fact, it would probably do them all good to soak in the heat for 10-14 days. This will pump up their metabolism and increase their appetite. My main concern was the ability to raise the temp that high in a larger tank. You are correct though, that many large discus have probably had enough of a small tank, lol...

I really wish I had documented the issues I've had with these discus of mine. Just when I thought they were a total write off, the 93 heat made an amazing rebound just as your original high dose of salt helped yours...

[Tanja]

Tanja I see no reason for any of your discus to have a problem with the higher temp. As a matter of fact, it would probably do them all good to soak in the heat for 10-14 days. This will pump up their metabolism and increase their appetite. My main concern was the ability to raise the temp that high in a larger tank. You are correct though, that many large discus have probably had enough of a small tank, lol...

Thank you I will definitely do that then and let the big tank "cycle" with some panda catfish. The 5 of them seem fine in there, it's just a hassle with the jumper because I have to treat him in a different tank... They're too aggressive for me to put him in with the others at this point.


I really wish I had documented the issues I've had with these discus of mine. Just when I thought they were a total write off, the 93 heat made an amazing rebound just as your original high dose of salt helped yours...

Only one of mine seems to be sick and she hasn't improved much. Hopefully the higher temps will help her too!

[Mando]

You added panda cat fish or you always had them with the discus? I hope they are not new addition :(

Depending how you answer the above question, I would move all the good looking discus back to main tank. Keep the sickly looking one in the qt. If deadalus is not showing any ill signs, white poo, darkening, and he is eating well, then he can go in maintank as well.

I’m afraid you’re going to be back at square one if you put catfish in the main tank without qt.


He did it a couple times today as I was observing him after you said that. He does it when he's grazing for leftovers or could it also be something serious?

No concerns then.

[Tanja]

You added panda cat fish or you always had them with the discus? I hope they are not new addition :

They're not in there yet but they will be a new addition. One of the problems I was having was a lot of leftover food from only having 6 fish in a big tank... They've been through a 30 day quarantine where they're coming from but I usually put my fish through at least API general cure before I put them into my tank.

That being said... I'm looking at another month of the discus in this small tank. So maybe I should just risk it and put them in first. What do you think?

[Tanja]

The thing is, there's NO WAY I can do 70 gallon water changes twice daily to keep nitrites down in that tank... just way way too much water. So I was going to finish the cycle with less maintenance fish.

[Mando]

I wouldn’t do it. Look for Al’s new post about free advice. He clearly states that you should not trust anyone that says they qt’d the fish. Follow the qt process or your risking this whole situation again. You don’t have to do twice daily. Do 1x50% daily. What foods are you feeding? There should not be much food left as discus feed from the bottom as well.

Al would not give the “trust” advice for no reason. He’s seen countless emergency threads saying “my fish are sick but I only added fish that my supplier qt’s”.

[Mando]

My 30g lost it’s cycle from doing 90% water changes twice daily when growing 7 fry. I reduced it to 50% once daily and did not have an issue. Filter caught up quickly. I tested water twice weekly and wc’d as necessary. If you don’t put in the work now, you’re going to spend a lot of time on this emergency room.

[Tanja]

My 30g lost it’s cycle from doing 90% water changes twice daily when growing 7 fry. I reduced it to 50% once daily and did not have an issue. Filter caught up quickly. I tested water twice weekly and wc’d as necessary.

Interesting. Perhaps that is why my quarantine tank doesn't really have any form of a cycle going on 3 weeks soon! Even 50% would be 45 gallons of water every day though... I guess that's fine... Still I only get a gallon per minute out of my tap. Is there any way I might get away with 50% every other day...?


If you don’t put in the work now, you’re going to spend a lot of time on this emergency room.

How long should I keep the pandas separated from them? I still want to put them in there...


What foods are you feeding? There should not be much food left as discus feed from the bottom as well.

4 times daily including one serving of beef heart, the rest brine shrimp sometimes only flakes 2-3 times daily. Them doing the work of the scavenger is what I want to avoid... I believe they got fungus because there was always some food left behind that got hidden from me either behind some rock or driftwood and they eat absolutely everything they can get their fins on!

[Mando]

I’ll answer other questions via pm since we are going off topic.

Don’t rush things as far as qt. Get your current fish healthy and once they are all in the main tank, then buy your cat fish and place them in the QT tank.. Qt is a long process. You can deworm in this stage with 1 prazi 48hr bath treatment and up to three levamisole. Treat levamisole on day 1,7 and 21. On the sixth week of qt, introduce one of your main tank fish into the qt tank. Observe for 2-4 weeks, if no signs of illness, everyone can go into maintank. This procedures is Al’s and it’s from the top of my head so please try to find the original post.

By no means am I telling you what to do. This is just my suggestion.

[jeep]

Armando you are giving very good advice! I also agree that 1x50% WC is sufficient, and Tanja after the issue is resolved you can skip a day from time to time and relax and enjoy your accomplishment. The main reason for the very heavy water changes early on was to reduce the population of the pathogen. I think we are past that now, and our goal now is to help them recover from a very stressful event. Just put yourself in their situation... if you had been hospitalized because of some unknown life threatening disease, how long would it take for you to fully recover?

Tanja, I don't think you've lost a single fish so far, including the jumper. This is a great accomplishment. I would have expected a loss or two, but you accepted corrective advise without question. I told you at the beginning, most people push back at the recommendations we offered. They would have suffered losses and so far you have not!!!

[Tanja]

Tanja, I don't think you've lost a single fish so far, including the jumper. This is a great accomplishment. I would have expected a loss or two, but you accepted corrective advise without question.

I would do nothing less. The life of these creatures is so precious to me. Daedalus (the jumper) seems to be the healthiest of them. I'm trying to think of the least stressful ways of moving him back to the main tank. But you're right in that he's not the same. He used to be a shy fish and now he's aggressive, he tries to bite me and the hose every time I do his water change LoL. I was afraid of putting my hand in there yesterday. He's almost turned into a piranha...

[peewee1]

I would do nothing less. The life of these creatures is so precious to me. Daedalus (the jumper) seems to be the healthiest of them. I'm trying to think of the least stressful ways of moving him back to the main tank. But you're right in that he's not the same. He used to be a shy fish and now he's aggressive, he tries to bite me and the hose every time I do his water change LoL. I was afraid of putting my hand in there yesterday. He's almost turned into a piranha...

Unless the fish is extremely large and your fingers are abnormally small it would be hard for the fish to swallow your fingers as if they were worms. Do not be afraid! You have names for your fish? I have too. I study their individual behaviors. I then match those personalities to those whom I work with. I made a photo one fish, "Lee", and gave it to Lee at work. He was so impressed that he taped it onto his office wall next to those of his kids. I did name my jumper "Eddie the Eagle" after the famous UK Olympic ski jumper. If I get another jumper I am going to name him D. B. Cooper. Otherwise they are all named after people at work.

[Tanja]

Unless the fish is extremely large and your fingers are abnormally small it would be hard for the fish to swallow your fingers as if they were worms. Do not be afraid! You have names for your fish? I have too. I study their individual behaviors. I then match those personalities to those whom I work with. I made a photo one fish, "Lee", and gave it to Lee at work. He was so impressed that he taped it onto his office wall next to those of his kids.

I'm still studying mine too and so far only two of them have names. I like Greek mythology and his name came from Daedalus saving himself from imminent death so many times. Yes his teeth are obviously small but it still freaks me out when I feel them LoL.

[Tanja]

Armando you are giving very good advice! I also agree that 1x50% WC is sufficient, and Tanja after the issue is resolved you can skip a day from time to time and relax and enjoy your accomplishment. The main reason for the very heavy water changes early on was to reduce the population of the pathogen. I think we are past that now, and our goal now is to help them recover from a very stressful event. Just put yourself in their situation... if you had been hospitalized because of some unknown life threatening disease, how long would it take for you to fully recover?

Brian so it will be necessary to do 50% water changes almost daily as well going forward?

Also, is it normal for them to have stringy poop (not white) while being on metro? Or could it potentially be a side-effect of metro? Just wondering if mine are still sick...

[Mando]

Brian so it will be necessary to do 50% water changes almost daily as well going forward?

Also, is it normal for them to have stringy poop (not white) while being on metro? Or could it potentially be a side-effect of metro? Just wondering if mine are still sick...

It is not necessary for 50% daily once they are healed. These are almost adult fish so they do not require as much feeding as growing fry. Also, is it normal for poop that is pale to black to brown or red/orange if you feed tetra bites, but not white. White is a problem.

[jeep]

Hex is opportunistic. Your discus probably have it due to the stress of everything they've been through, probably a mild case. Hopefully the heat and metro will take care of the hex and white stringy feces:)

[Tanja]

Thank you so much Everybody for all of your help. My fish are doing so well tonight that I can no longer tell the difference between the one who was pooping white and the rest of the group! They're all acting like normal, healthy discus!! Brian - the heat has made all the difference. I'll be moving Daedalus (the jumper) back in tomorrow and the rest will follow. :)

[jeep]

Great news!!!

[Mando]

Thank you so much Everybody for all of your help. My fish are doing so well tonight that I can no longer tell the difference between the one who was pooping white and the rest of the group! They're all acting like normal, healthy discus!! Brian - the heat has made all the difference. I'll be moving Daedalus (the jumper) back in tomorrow and the rest will follow. :)

Now that your QT is empty, you can bring your cat fish/cory or whatever other fish you wanted to bring and start the qt process. Glad you were able to keep all your fish especially Deadalus! I thought for sure he was going to be a gonner.

[Tanja]

Now that your QT is empty, you can bring your cat fish/cory or whatever other fish you wanted to bring and start the qt process. Glad you were able to keep all your fish especially Deadalus! I thought for sure he was going to be a gonner.

I was afraid of infecting the new fish with whatever the pathogen was in the qt room so I put them into another tote for now. So far, I only have Daedalus in the main tank. He started hiding and was obviously stressed maybe for being the only fish in this big tank. How long should I wait before I move the others in? They all seem to be healthy besides for maybe one is still leaning over a little bit.

[Mando]

I was afraid of infecting the new fish with whatever the pathogen was in the qt room so I put them into another tote for now. So far, I only have Daedalus in the main tank. He started hiding and was obviously stressed maybe for being the only fish in this big tank. How long should I wait before I move the others in? They all seem to be healthy besides for maybe one is still leaning over a little bit.


if after some observation, you do not see any white feces or darkening, go ahead and put them all together. Are they all eating well? You did run the medication for 10 days, right?

[Tanja]

if after some observation, you do not see any white feces or darkening, go ahead and put them all together. Are they all eating well? You did run the medication for 10 days, right?

Yes I run metro for 10 days and heat at 91 for 7 days now. Everybody ate and Daedalus came out for food but didn't eat. He ate fine in his hospital this morning. :/

[Mando]

Yes I run metro for 10 days and heat at 91 for 7 days now. Everybody ate and Daedalus came out for food but didn't eat. He ate fine in his hospital this morning. :/

That's fine. Now give them time to adjust without medication. I'm so happy for you to get these back to normal health and bringing Deadalus back from the dead.

[Second Hand Pat]

Something Pat told me omes to mind. When you're ready to put them all together, try putting the weakest one (and maybe another small one) in for a few days, then introdu e the rest. Maybe they will hange the pe king order...

Sorry, my keyboard is rapping out and the " " isn't working ;)

I was going to suggest this :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes I run metro for 10 days and heat at 91 for 7 days now. Everybody ate and Daedalus came out for food but didn't eat. He ate fine in his hospital this morning. :/

Hi Tanja, I would suggest maintaining the heat for about a week after the end of the metro treatment.
Pat

[Tanja]

That's fine. Now give them time to adjust without medication. I'm so happy for you to get these back to normal health and bringing Deadalus back from the dead.

I know! But I got bad news... I didn't see any white feces in anybody's tank for at least a week. Then today I put another fish in with D and boom... I saw feces floating around that was cream color. Not bright white, but stringy and white-ish. And this is in the big tank where I just redid everything. :'( Daedalus has a sunken belly but since he hadn't been pooping white I thought for sure it was from his ordeal. I was going to remove him but it might put him through too much stress since I just put him in there... And whatever he had made its way back to my tank already. So... Should I treat him in there or separate him? The other fish in there with him seems fine.


Hi Tanja, I would suggest maintaining the heat for about a week after the end of the metro treatment.
Pat

That sounds like a very good idea. Should I do this in the big tank as well? I'm moving everybody in one fish at a time. Two fish are already there. :)

[jeep]

Can you give us a photo of the feces?

[Tanja]

Can you give us a photo of the feces?

Thank you Brian I will keep my eye out for it.