Milaz
09-05-2019, 07:17 PM
This is going to be controversial post and I would like to Apologize and state upfront, that I am not suggesting at all that it may work for anyone else the same way as for me - so please do not crucify me.
From the very start - I have grown up with two 480 L / 127 gal. bare bottom discus tanks in my childhood bedroom, where my father tried in late seventies to breed discus - doing everything by the book - once per week 50% water changes, hormone stimulation, beef heart mix, live coretra feeding etc. but w/o any luck - I am just sharing this as illustration of having quite good idea of what it take and how difficult it really is to successfully breed this king of all aquarium fish - because of this knowledge I have always been afraid of it - well - till FEB this year when I gave it a try finally.
I have been always around this hobby - in and out - my latest tank being 10 years old 887 L or 234 gallons planted tank with rather thick fine gravel bottom substrate and three large pieces of bog wood set as Amazonas habitat (not biotope - see later) - community tank with predominantly tetras shoals - but since five years also housing also my 10 years old six piece pack of clown fish (Botia Macracanthus) - ending there when I closed down my second 260 L or 69 gallon aquarium set up as Asian tropical forest habitat.
Before deciding to try keep discus I have read a lot about it - all the great books by Heiko Bleher, all the sticky posts on this great forum - thank you guys for sharing so much of so valuable info and your practical experience here with us novices.
As I did not have any intention to breed - only trying to keep discus - I have prepared myself in my mind for possible failure - considering as greatest success to see if I would be able to keep healthy discus - in my community planted tank and not being able to perform daily - sometimes even weekly water changes - because of this limitation due to my frequent out of country week or longer business trips I have focused on best possible filtration to compensate for it.
I am running my aquarium with 387% over-sized bio-filter capacity consisting from 1x original Fluval FX5 - perfectly running all 10 years, plus added 1x Eheim Professional 2226 from the closed down smaller tank plus added ahead of discus introduction third filter - Fluval FX6 - mainly for redundancy reasons but also faster waste removal.
I am running Eheim with Eheim Pro substrate, but both FX5 and FX6 in DENITRIFICATION mode - using Biohome Ultimate media from Richard - aka Pond Guru - https://filterpro.co.uk - 5 kg in each FX filter - performing first classic nitrification waste degradation of ammonia to nitrite than to nitrate on the surface of media - but inside the Biohome anaerbic de-nitrification back to nitrogen gas - this is the only reason, why I can do it without so frequent and large water changes otherwise required with nitrification filter setup only - where accumulating nitrate end product must be diluted by water changes. Also my water is turning very fast through filters - total flow rate being 2*3.500 L/h for both Fx filters plus 1.100 L/h - for total of 8.100 L/h flow - in reality doe to head losses estimated at about 5.000 L/h real flow - thus removing any waste really fast.
So much about the setup - now how my discuss keeping is progressing:
1) FEB 26th 2019 - major clean up of my 10 year in operation tank - pulled out a lot of plants - all Valisnerias etc - left in only few Echinodorus plants - Veronikae and Tricolor species. Community consisted at that time from six clowns, 5 Hemmigrammus Erythrostigma (bleeding heart tetra), 15 Paracheirodon Inesi (neons), 15 Hemmigrammus Bleherae (rummy nose tetra), 5 Corydoras Aeneus and 5 ancistrus sp.
2) March 3rd 2019 - addition of FX6 - seeded with portion of the original FX5 media - both FX5 and FX6 set with Biohome Ultimate media in two trays out of three in each FX filter, temperature increased from 25 to 30 dC gradually over three days.
3) March 15th, 2019 evening - brought in 12 red turquoise discus 7 cm in size or about four months old from Josef Pejsa - one of best discus breeders around here - http://www.pejsadiscus.cz. All 12 started to feed well the very next day - Tetra Discus granules, coretra live food plus Golden lake frozen Artemia.
124747124748
4) first two months 30% weekly water changes gradually - based on both liquid drop water testing but also Seneye continuous water parameters monitoring - https://seneye.com/ - with spot on water parameters as the denitrification was starting to kick in, I was able to extend water changes to 40% once per three weeks - filtered via activated charcoal filter but no other treatment needed as my tap water has KH stable at 5 to 6 and almost neutral pH at 7.2.
5) AUG 22nd, 2019 evening - first pair of discus started to breed in right front corner of aquarium onto the glass - no photos as I returned home from week long business trip after 10 pm with lights switched off - and my wife and son watching the breeding did not took photos of it - I have seen some eggs on the front glass in night light, but by the morning all eaten up.
124749
6) SEP 5th, 2019 - during water change and gravel cleanup after three weeks on business trip I have noticed, that second pair has bred onto Echinodorus Veronikae leaves in the left corner - this time I was able to take pictures and it seems hatching of larvae may be already starting so breeding took part already two - three days earlier - brave mother discuss stayed with her eggs shielding them with her body from my bottom gravel vacuum cleaner even as I was cleaning it around the same plant on which they laid their eggs before I realized what miracle has just happened as she was protecting her eggs.
124750
Bottom line - all 12 discus alive and doing well, though four remaining smaller in size and not feeding as aggressively as the rest, two breeding pairs formed with each setting up their territory 195 cm or 6'4" apart from each other in the opposite sides of my tank - and my father - now 84 - is enjoying tremendously the pictures and videos from my discuss keeping - very happy to live long enough to witness discuss breeding in our family.....
So all what I am trying to say here it is, that discus fish from good breeder are hardy enough fish to live well and even breed in my not so typical setup - planted tank with a lot of bog wood, thick fine gravel bottom substrate with massive bio-filtration capacity of well established beneficiary bacteria over ten years in operation, coupled with massive external filters and fast water circulation in de-nitrifying setup thus w/o any nitrate accumulation in the water, feeding three different Tetra dry food granules - Discus, Cichlid Pro and Tetramin BioActive - and occasional treat with live coretra and frozen Golden Lake Artemia - no beef heart at all.
Just food for thought I guess - I have to admit, that if I would knew it might work so well earlier in my setup with not so frequent water changes and still my discus will be healthy and breeding in it, I would have moved into discuss keeping much earlier and would not be so long afraid to start with it.
So if you have good setup and matured tank with large enough filtration capacity so do not be afraid to keep discus - true king of tropical tanks!:)
From the very start - I have grown up with two 480 L / 127 gal. bare bottom discus tanks in my childhood bedroom, where my father tried in late seventies to breed discus - doing everything by the book - once per week 50% water changes, hormone stimulation, beef heart mix, live coretra feeding etc. but w/o any luck - I am just sharing this as illustration of having quite good idea of what it take and how difficult it really is to successfully breed this king of all aquarium fish - because of this knowledge I have always been afraid of it - well - till FEB this year when I gave it a try finally.
I have been always around this hobby - in and out - my latest tank being 10 years old 887 L or 234 gallons planted tank with rather thick fine gravel bottom substrate and three large pieces of bog wood set as Amazonas habitat (not biotope - see later) - community tank with predominantly tetras shoals - but since five years also housing also my 10 years old six piece pack of clown fish (Botia Macracanthus) - ending there when I closed down my second 260 L or 69 gallon aquarium set up as Asian tropical forest habitat.
Before deciding to try keep discus I have read a lot about it - all the great books by Heiko Bleher, all the sticky posts on this great forum - thank you guys for sharing so much of so valuable info and your practical experience here with us novices.
As I did not have any intention to breed - only trying to keep discus - I have prepared myself in my mind for possible failure - considering as greatest success to see if I would be able to keep healthy discus - in my community planted tank and not being able to perform daily - sometimes even weekly water changes - because of this limitation due to my frequent out of country week or longer business trips I have focused on best possible filtration to compensate for it.
I am running my aquarium with 387% over-sized bio-filter capacity consisting from 1x original Fluval FX5 - perfectly running all 10 years, plus added 1x Eheim Professional 2226 from the closed down smaller tank plus added ahead of discus introduction third filter - Fluval FX6 - mainly for redundancy reasons but also faster waste removal.
I am running Eheim with Eheim Pro substrate, but both FX5 and FX6 in DENITRIFICATION mode - using Biohome Ultimate media from Richard - aka Pond Guru - https://filterpro.co.uk - 5 kg in each FX filter - performing first classic nitrification waste degradation of ammonia to nitrite than to nitrate on the surface of media - but inside the Biohome anaerbic de-nitrification back to nitrogen gas - this is the only reason, why I can do it without so frequent and large water changes otherwise required with nitrification filter setup only - where accumulating nitrate end product must be diluted by water changes. Also my water is turning very fast through filters - total flow rate being 2*3.500 L/h for both Fx filters plus 1.100 L/h - for total of 8.100 L/h flow - in reality doe to head losses estimated at about 5.000 L/h real flow - thus removing any waste really fast.
So much about the setup - now how my discuss keeping is progressing:
1) FEB 26th 2019 - major clean up of my 10 year in operation tank - pulled out a lot of plants - all Valisnerias etc - left in only few Echinodorus plants - Veronikae and Tricolor species. Community consisted at that time from six clowns, 5 Hemmigrammus Erythrostigma (bleeding heart tetra), 15 Paracheirodon Inesi (neons), 15 Hemmigrammus Bleherae (rummy nose tetra), 5 Corydoras Aeneus and 5 ancistrus sp.
2) March 3rd 2019 - addition of FX6 - seeded with portion of the original FX5 media - both FX5 and FX6 set with Biohome Ultimate media in two trays out of three in each FX filter, temperature increased from 25 to 30 dC gradually over three days.
3) March 15th, 2019 evening - brought in 12 red turquoise discus 7 cm in size or about four months old from Josef Pejsa - one of best discus breeders around here - http://www.pejsadiscus.cz. All 12 started to feed well the very next day - Tetra Discus granules, coretra live food plus Golden lake frozen Artemia.
124747124748
4) first two months 30% weekly water changes gradually - based on both liquid drop water testing but also Seneye continuous water parameters monitoring - https://seneye.com/ - with spot on water parameters as the denitrification was starting to kick in, I was able to extend water changes to 40% once per three weeks - filtered via activated charcoal filter but no other treatment needed as my tap water has KH stable at 5 to 6 and almost neutral pH at 7.2.
5) AUG 22nd, 2019 evening - first pair of discus started to breed in right front corner of aquarium onto the glass - no photos as I returned home from week long business trip after 10 pm with lights switched off - and my wife and son watching the breeding did not took photos of it - I have seen some eggs on the front glass in night light, but by the morning all eaten up.
124749
6) SEP 5th, 2019 - during water change and gravel cleanup after three weeks on business trip I have noticed, that second pair has bred onto Echinodorus Veronikae leaves in the left corner - this time I was able to take pictures and it seems hatching of larvae may be already starting so breeding took part already two - three days earlier - brave mother discuss stayed with her eggs shielding them with her body from my bottom gravel vacuum cleaner even as I was cleaning it around the same plant on which they laid their eggs before I realized what miracle has just happened as she was protecting her eggs.
124750
Bottom line - all 12 discus alive and doing well, though four remaining smaller in size and not feeding as aggressively as the rest, two breeding pairs formed with each setting up their territory 195 cm or 6'4" apart from each other in the opposite sides of my tank - and my father - now 84 - is enjoying tremendously the pictures and videos from my discuss keeping - very happy to live long enough to witness discuss breeding in our family.....
So all what I am trying to say here it is, that discus fish from good breeder are hardy enough fish to live well and even breed in my not so typical setup - planted tank with a lot of bog wood, thick fine gravel bottom substrate with massive bio-filtration capacity of well established beneficiary bacteria over ten years in operation, coupled with massive external filters and fast water circulation in de-nitrifying setup thus w/o any nitrate accumulation in the water, feeding three different Tetra dry food granules - Discus, Cichlid Pro and Tetramin BioActive - and occasional treat with live coretra and frozen Golden Lake Artemia - no beef heart at all.
Just food for thought I guess - I have to admit, that if I would knew it might work so well earlier in my setup with not so frequent water changes and still my discus will be healthy and breeding in it, I would have moved into discuss keeping much earlier and would not be so long afraid to start with it.
So if you have good setup and matured tank with large enough filtration capacity so do not be afraid to keep discus - true king of tropical tanks!:)