Urgent, uncage or not? what to do now?

[jimmyaz]

Hey all,

My pair laid eggs on Aug 31st, wriggler Sept 2nd or Sept3... Now somewhat free swimming, I had caged the eggs because they have been eating the eggs for the past 3 spawn (90%egg were turning white before and had fungus) So for this batch I caged it and use Metalyne Blue and it seem 40% survived. I've seen both parents suck in babies and threw them back on the cone for the past 2 days... They are also angry at the cage and bites it when they're scared.

I don't know what do to now because I am unsure if the fry's are free swimming yet? Some are still stuck to the white eggs or maybe they are hanging around there to feed? Some are around the wires mesh? It look like they are not sticking to it, but maybe trying to feed on it?

My question is, do I remove the cage NOW??? I am worry that the parents would seed the white eggs and they would try to eat the white eggs and it would be all over? But if I leave the cage, the frys seem to be attract to the cage because it's dark?

See picture and video here. https://youtu.be/gedXmw5U73g

Thanks for the help! I had to waited a year now before the last spawn, last female died of exhaustion after like 10 unsuccessful spawn.

[brewmaster15]

These aren't free swimmers yet.. They will be soon but I would not remove the screen yet. when free swimmer they will literally start swimming all over the place. These are still living off yolk sacs and have the sticky head glands.


al

[jimmyaz]

These aren't free swimmers yet.. They will be soon but I would not remove the screen yet. when free swimmer they will literally start swimming all over the place. These are still living off yolk sacs and have the sticky head glands.


al

Hi Al, thanks for the quick reply. In the video, at :33 close up it seem like the head is not sticking, look more like they are attaching to the wire mesh to feed? I'm just worry they might starve to death if they are trying to attach to the wire and feed off that instead of the parents. As for the other dudes that are sticking to the white eggs with fungus, will they die if they eat those fungus? :)

[brewmaster15]

The ones on the cage are still using their yoke sacks, and still sticking to things.. as they mature the yolk sack and glands will get absorbed. They will get hungry and go looking for their parents. The ones on the dead eggs should be ok ...That egg fungus attacks dead tissue....not the live fry..sometimes the fungus can smother the fry but these fry look over that point.

al

ps... nice music score to the video.:)

[jimmyaz]

The ones on the cage are still using their yoke sacks, and still sticking to things.. as they mature the yolk sack and glands will get absorbed. They will get hungry and go looking for their parents. The ones on the dead eggs should be ok ...That egg fungus attacks dead tissue....not the live fry..sometimes the fungus can smother the fry but these fry look over that point.

al

ps... nice music score to the video.:)

Thanks for the reassuring.

I guess I will try to hatch some BBS today to practice. I should wait 1-2 weeks before feeding the fry right?

[brewmaster15]

Everyone has their own way but I like to let fry attach and feed off the parents at least a week before I start the bbs. I think it helps put the pair into slime making mode and strengthens the pairs bond with the fry.
Al

[jimmyaz]

Everyone has their own way but I like to let fry attach and feed off the parents at least a week before I start the bbs. I think it helps put the pair into slime making mode and strengthens the pairs bond with the fry.
Al

Thank you.

At work, wife just sent this video...YAY! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q17rVoRowz0&feature=youtu.be

Since there's only around 30 babies, would it be a safer bet just to let them live off the parents and not do any extra feeding like baby brine? In the wild the baby can 100% live off the parents slime?

[LizStreithorst]

Great news. 30 is enough for them to raise. I'd still start the bbs at 7 days.

[brewmaster15]

In the wild the baby can 100% live off the parents slime? In the wild they would eat micro organisms and various phytoplanktons.


I would use bbs as liz suggested. It will give you a better success chance.

congrats on the fry! Looks like the parents are doing well with them.

Al

[jimmyaz]

In the wild they would eat micro organisms and various phytoplanktons.


I would use bbs as liz suggested. It will give you a better success chance.

congrats on the fry! Looks like the parents are doing well with them.

Al

Well, half of the parents. Only the dad turned dark, so the babies only follow him. The mom only go arround and suck in desserted babies and throw them into the corner of the tank and they attached to the black silicon. The dad get pisded off and poke at the mom. Is this a indication to remove the mom before they got a case of domestiv violents? ;)

[brewmaster15]

I would remove her Jimmy.

al

[danotaylor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q17r...ature=youtu.be

[jimmyaz]

I would remove her Jimmy.

al

Thing have changed a bit overnight. The mom now would pick up loners and split them toward the dad. It's fascinating watching them, I couldn't believe that it can tell the difference between blood worm and it babies, apparently it can... like if they can feel the movement?

I don't quite understand why only one parent turn dark? I still haven't remove the mom because I am scared to do so, disturbing it. The last time I removed a mom from a spawn because she was eating the babies... by separating it with a divider, it stop eating and eventually dies.... My wife said I caused some mental physiological to that female because of the separation so she stop eating... LOL. But if not remove... would she go back to spawn mode and eat them all since she's not turning dark and frys is not attaching to her? Currently she's not eating them, just sucking them in and splitting them back toward the dad.

This doesn't get easier does it? :D

40gal tank, filled almost half way, doing water changes twice a day, 20%. Currently have a air stone, a dual sponge filter. Wonder if I could drop it down to once water change a day?

[brewmaster15]

Thing have changed a bit overnight. The mom now would pick up loners and split them toward the dad. It's fascinating watching them, I couldn't believe that it can tell the difference between blood worm and it babies, apparently it can... like if they can feel the movement?

I don't quite understand why only one parent turn dark? I still haven't remove the mom because I am scared to do so, disturbing it. The last time I removed a mom from a spawn because she was eating the babies... by separating it with a divider, it stop eating and eventually dies.... My wife said I caused some mental physiological to that female because of the separation so she stop eating... LOL. But if not remove... would she go back to spawn mode and eat them all since she's not turning dark and frys is not attaching to her? Currently she's not eating them, just sucking them in and splitting them back toward the dad.

This doesn't get easier does it? :D

40gal tank, filled almost half way, doing water changes twice a day, 20%. Currently have a air stone, a dual sponge filter. Wonder if I could drop it down to once water change a day?


By the Vids, The pair you have a is a BD X Pigeon.. The BD is darkening and sliming it... Pbs don't do that to the same extent and the fry are attracted to the darker BD.. Because they don't darken as non-pigeons do, Pigeons can be challenging to initially get fry to attach to. Odds are your male BD is going to be getting the brunt of the feeding which is another reason to suppliment with BBS. Eventually the BD may get frustrated when he tries to switch out with her and they will probably start fighting...something to watch for.

Unfortunately, You should not decrease wcs, but increase them if you really want a good batch.

-al

Incidentally I'm looking forward to seeing this batch grow as it fits with my thread here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135545-Bred-out-the-Pepper-in-Pigeons

[jimmyaz]

Unfortunately, You should not decrease wcs, but increase them if you really want a good batch.

-al

Incidentally I'm looking forward to seeing this batch grow as it fits with my thread here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135545-Bred-out-the-Pepper-in-Pigeons

Thanks Al. I will try my best to keep up with the water changes. A year ago, I was really into water changes, but after that last female doesn't eat for 4 months I gave up... Put all 7 of my discus in my 120gal planted tank... heavily planted, so I only had to do water changes every 2 weeks :). So twice a day is a tall order, but this is as far as I've got with babies discus... so whatever it takes. :)

I can't imagine how this fry's would turn out... no idea. But that's the excitement.

[jimmyaz]

By the Vids, The pair you have a is a BD X Pigeon.. The BD is darkening and sliming it... Pbs don't do that to the same extent and the fry are attracted to the darker BD.. Because they don't darken as non-pigeons do, Pigeons can be challenging to initially get fry to attach to. Odds are your male BD is going to be getting the brunt of the feeding which is another reason to suppliment with BBS. Eventually the BD may get frustrated when he tries to switch out with her and they will probably start fighting...something to watch for.

Unfortunately, You should not decrease wcs, but increase them if you really want a good batch.

-al

Incidentally I'm looking forward to seeing this batch grow as it fits with my thread here...

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?135545-Bred-out-the-Pepper-in-Pigeons

Hey Al,

Does discus generally eat less when they are parenting? I removed the mom yesterday. The dad seem more relaxed, but seem like he's not eating much, only frozen bloodworms and only eat about total one cube a day, split into morning and afternoon.

[brewmaster15]

He is probably a little stressed Jimmy. Hes focusing on single handedly raising fry. In time he will probably start eating more aggressively. Probably when you start the baby brine shrimp.

Al

[jimmyaz]

Update!

[Mando]

Grats on your babies. Papa looks great!

[brewmaster15]

Congrats Jimmy! Looking great! In the videos it looked like the male was a blue Diamond... I see now I was wrong... Its a snakeskin by the gill plate .. This should really be an interesting cross!
Al

[jimmyaz]

Congrats Jimmy! Looking great! In the videos it looked like the male was a blue Diamond... I see now I was wrong... Its a snakeskin by the gill plate .. This should really be an interesting cross!
Al

Yes, now I remembered, it was a snakeskin that I was told. You ready for this? so I moved the female back to my main 120gal planted tank... there's another two in there that I couldn't tell if they are male or female yet. Well, after I moved the female Pigeon back, thing get a bit weird for a few days. One of the blue one always get beating by the other and now sadly been sitting on the opposite side of the tank for a few days. Came home today and saw the red pigeon has laid eggs again, obviously is having an affair after only separated from her mate less than week, that's mess up. I am unsure if this is a male or female, could be a lesbian situation here. :D

As always, she definitely into the black intake, even before she always laid on this intake and this only... gezzz... Obviously this isn't going to work.

Now I'm just worry about the lonely dude that hasn't been eating much and shy (turning super dark). I purchased 3x more juvenile (2.5"), but they are still in quarantine tank (going on 5th days)... Not sure if I should move them to the main tank so they can be friend with the loner. But since the new pair is spawning and probably too aggressive right? probably isn't a good idea.

[jimmyaz]

Hey all,

So the fry is growing good, been feeding it BBS twice a day. I've been noticing about half of them swim straight up most of the time and some even laying on bottom of the tank when dad is sitting low. This isn't normal right? Seem like it would happen more after feeding, maybe they ate too much?

See video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f5kzmN-_DA

[jimmyaz]

Hey guys,

So it been almost a month now, half of the fry are almost as big as a Quarter coin. For the past week or so, they no longer attach or eat from the dad. Also the dad has been extremely aggressive toward me, even if I walk by the tank he go crazy and chase me back and forth... Is it time to move him out and let the fry on their own? But I can only feed the fry 3-4 times a day max... would this be enough ???

Would there be any problem if I keep the dad in for a bit longer? another month? make sure the fry are fully grown?

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jimmy, I saw your video. Do you still have fry which are skimming the bottom of the tank? If you do I think these are called belly sliders and I think some folks would consider culling them as they are not strong fry.
Pat