My first discus project (125g custom made with sump)

[dominicOv]

Hi everyone,

My name is Ovidiu Dominic, 29 yrs old, from France and i have been in this hobby since i was 10 years old. I have enjoyed many projects like: african cichlids, south american cichlids, high tech planted tanks but during the recent years something caught my eye. This expensive to get, expensive to keep, expensive to feed fish has become available at 2 hours distance drive from home (the stendker discus) and this will be my biggest challenge so far. I will say that i am a bit afraid giving the purchase cost of 11 adult discus but with the experience gathered during the years, the study, lurking on the forums and ofcourse with your help, i will try to offer these fish a good home. And now the fun part ... Let's hop into the details :bounce2::bounce2::drummer:

I have a 125 gallons tank (1500L x 500l x 600h mm) with a full coast 2 coast overflow on the back the aquarium with external overflow, bean animal drain, 65 gallon sump (1 chamber mechanical filtration, 2nd chamber 50 liters of oase helx 13 media and finally the return chamber). The stand is made from aluminium and will be covered with big sheets of wood to give it a minimalistic look. The aquarium is still empty as it hasnt fully cured but.... Tomorrow is the big day and i will be able to start the cycle :guitarist:

I want to create a planted aquarium with very fine sand so that it will be easier to clean and i will not use any hard scape. The plants will not be a priority so i will go with the easier ones that can grow in higher temp like Vallisneria that will cover the back, Lotus plants that will create the main scape and 2, 3 crypts.

Now let's talk about water: :spit:

These are the official tap water params in my city: Tests taken a week ago.

AMMONIUM (EN NH4) <0,05 mg/L
CHLORE LIBRE * 0,35 mg(Cl2)/L
CHLORE TOTAL * 0,36 mg(Cl2)/L
CONDUCTIVITÉ À 25°C 366 µS/cm
NITRATES (EN NO3) 1,4 mg/L
PH * 7,9 unité pH

Based on these tests i will use a HMA filter ( 1micron sediment cartrige, 5 micron high chlorine remover cartrige, 1 micron carbon filter) and just to be sure i will use prime after each water change. I will plan on doing weekly 30 or 50% water chantge in the display tank.

The filtration for this tank will be made in 3 stages:
1. Mechanical filtration ( first sump chamber with filter floss and the water will be forced to pass through it) also the water changes from the main DT will be done in the sump so that all the detrius will get trapped in the filter floss before i change it.
2. Nitrification will be done in the second chamber by the 50 liters of moving bed media plus the plants will help.
3. Denitrification: i will start by using a lot of different floating plants in the sump where they will have 12h of light during the night to eat the nitrates and stabilize ph also.

The equipment used for this tank will be:
4x 54w T5 (10 000k, 9000k, 6000k, 3000k) ofcourse i will use only 2 bulbs for the start.
Aquamedic t controller duo (300w titanium heater w/ controller) more expensive but better quality and durability.
Return pump eheim universal 790 gallon.

This is what i plan to keep in the aquarium:

100 rummynose tetra
11 discus

After the tank has cycled i will add the 100 tetras and let things calm down... during this time i will start to test the water and start feeding more so the system will be ready for the big guys.

The food will be a home made recipe made of:

Beefhart
Salmon
Sardines
Shrimp

Brocolli heads
Spinach
Carrots
Garlic
Peas

Spirulina powder
Vitamins
Krill powder
(maybe noori sheets)

The krill and spirulina powder will be used as binders.

I have some questions before i start: :computer:

1. Will the current stocking ideea be viable in this system (100 rummynose + 11 discus) ?
2. Will the floating plants and the ones in the water be enough for removing excess no3 ? i have a big reactor that is waiting to get wet in case i need to make something like a nitrate tower.


Sorry for the long post but i am so excited to start this project, especially here where the community is kind and willing to help the beginners. Pics will follow soon. :fish::fish::fish:

[brewmaster15]

Dominic welcome to the Forum!

I'm happy to hear you will be trying Discus and very thrilled that you are starting it right by asking first , then doing it! It will make your experience much better!

To answer your question,

Will the current stocking ideea be viable in this system (100 rummynose + 11 discus) ? in a 125 gal.. Will be crowded. The discus numbers are fine, but you would probably be better off with a smaller school of tetras..20-40. 100 will be too much I fear , especially at feeding time. Thats just an opinion. I currently have 35 discus at 4" in 125 gal as a grow out tank. Biologically your tank can handle the numbers, but aesthetically it may not work you. Thats a personal call.

. Will the floating plants and the ones in the water be enough for removing excess no3 ? i have a big reactor that is waiting to get wet in case i need to make something like a nitrate tower.
will plan on doing weekly 30 or 50% water chantge in the display tank.
with that kind of water change probably not enough plants, but you are buying adult discus so won't need to feed heavily , which will help alot. This one is one that will vary also depending on what you feed and how much.




he food will be a home made recipe made of:

Beefhart
Salmon
Sardines
Shrimp

Brocolli heads
Spinach
Carrots
Garlic
Peas

Spirulina powder
Vitamins
Krill powder
(maybe noori sheets)

The krill and spirulina powder will be used as binders. This mix would be great in a bare bottom tank with lots of water changes, but in your tank, it will probably foul the water and bump up ammonia products.


I would like to point out a potential weakness in your plan. I would not add the tetras first . Get your Discus first, get them all at once from the same vendor... Let them settle in and take the time to learn about them and get the tank balanced. Add no other fish, not even dither fish...Once you are sure your DIscus are healthy and happy then get your other fish and quarantine them separately for 6 weeks minimum.

Hth,
al

[dominicOv]

Thank you for your reply,

I will go down to 50 tetras instead of 100.

About buying the discus first its going to be complicated. The reason i wanted to get the tetras first was to get used to the system, feeding and testing the water to see which plan will works best for removing nitrates. I added a lot of new stuff to the tank, like the hma filter, first time using a sump, first time using a moving bed filter... Before i buy the discus i just want to start having a good overall understanding of my system and water changes. I am saying all of this so you understand my thinking but if you think adding discus first is still the best way to go, then i will do it.

Edit: i am trying to add some photos but i get a message: Upload of photo failed :confused:

[dominicOv]

Update: The aquarium is filled and running like a breeze :bounce2::fish: I am really impressed on how silent is the bean animal overflow.

Next step, I will seed the aquarium with Tropic Marin Nitribiotic and the recomended dose of Dr Tims ammonium. Will let it run for couple of weeks like this.

I ordered all the plants today and will have them in about 2 days.

I checked the moving bed filter and i understand now why its better to use air pump. I bought a 9000 litre wave pump and its not moving anything. I will probably order a bigger air pump.

Will post pics as soon as i find out why the site doesn't let me upload.

Cheers!

[dominicOv]

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Aaand ... start ... Sorry for the messy photo.

[dominicOv]

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It took me a full day to fill it and prepare everything. Work in progress...

[dominicOv]

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Hello everyone, im back with updates on the tank :

I finished assembling the outside wooden panels and so far i am pleased with the looks.

One thing that i really want to point out: The tropic marin bacteria solution is by far the best i have used so far: It looks exaclty like the brown "thing" that we find in our filters. I took the filter floss out after couple of days to change it and i was amazed of how much brown stuff was coming out of it ( talking about the bacteria colonizing it). I would really recommend it for someone who wants to start cycling the aquarium with a quality product.

I have a dilemma though and i would appreciate your insight on this:

I have added the plants but i didnt do any prior soaking in bleach or anything else. Would this be a danger for the discus later on, like unkown bacteria or other nasty stuff? I was thinking of doing a hydrogen peroxide treatment even if it disturbs the cycle as i am not going to add the fishes this month anyway. I dont want to lose fishes just because of some plants. What do you think is the best approach for this situation?

Thank you.

[bluelagoon]

Have you ever had a tank that close to windows before? If so how did you deal with algae?

[Johnny95132]

I think adding the plants in without any treatment will be fine given that they weren't in a aquarium with fish beforehand. I believe that plants won't harbor any bacteria harmful to the fish as these bacteria can't survive on a plant host. I believe doing a hydrogen peroxide treatment would be unnecessary if you have good stock to begin with. Besides, it would be a bigger priority at this point to get the cycle started. It takes quite a while for the beneficial bacteria to build up in the filter and bleaching the tank now would cause a delay. It will take about a month for the filter to become fully established. So just keep running the tank as is and let nature take its course.

[Johnny95132]

Have you ever had a tank that close to windows before? If so how did you deal with algae?

As someone whose tank is right next to a window, I've observed that the sunlight doesn't cause extra algae growth as long as you keep the water quality in check. If I remember correctly, algae needs a combo of light and nutrients in order to grow. In a discus tank that has clean water, algae cannot grow. Performing regular water changes to eliminate the excess nutrients will prevent algae growth. If the aforementioned theory is wrong, you can always go out and buy a UV clarifier. That will eliminate algae for sure.

[bluelagoon]

There are always some nutrients in the water, especially ammonia from metablized waste and sunlight = algae. UV system would be your best bet that close to sunlight.

[dominicOv]

I have never had algae problems from the sun because i either cover the side of the aquarium with a black background or just simply keep the curtains closed.

[dominicOv]

So the fish will arrive in 2 days and here are the latest updates:

1. I have been dosing ammonia to keep the bacteria in good shape. I do not see detectable No2 after 12/24 hours and the plastic media changed color to a nice brown.
2. The nitrates stay at @ 10 - 20 daily
3. I have added a Diy Algae turf scrubber and i can already see some algae that started to develop. Still brown at the moment with some green hues.

The only problem that i have at this point is cyanobacteria. I dont like it :mad: I have lowered the lighting intensity to only 1 t5 bulb 8 hrs a day, have stopped dosing iron and trace elements, did a big water change and still today i see some cyano on the sand. It's driving me crazy :mad: Please let me know if i am missing something....

Here are some pics of the aquarium today. The plants are starting to show new growth and the tiger lotus already reached the top

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[Shan_Evolved]

Looking good! Excited to see your fish

[danotaylor]

I have never kept the red lotus before but I have seen really leaFy lotus plants where the leaves are in the lower & mid water column where they can be better viewed. They look amazing when bushy like that. I read that if you pinch the high leaves off they reproduce more and more and end up super bushy (leafy). Again these are things I have read, not experienced.
Your tank looks sweet!

[dominicOv]

Thank you for the nice comments!

About the lotus, they will stay compact if u trim the leaves that reach to the top but i am trying to do the opposite actually. I have seen a clip from the amazon river where fishes were swiming through very long lotus plants and it was amazing. I also want to create a nice atmosphere in the tank when all the leaves will reach the top.

[bluelagoon]

There are two ways to get rid of cyano. First method would be an antibiotic like erythromycin. I would not take that route. I wouldn't be able to anyway because antibiotics are not sold without a prescription here. The second way is to blacken out your tank for 3-4 days with a blanket to kill the algae that the bacteria have in it to produce food for the bacteria. It'll take a long time to get rid of it with just clean water and siphoning.

[bluelagoon]

When the tank becomes more established the primitive cyano and diatoms will be taken over by the more advanced life form like algae. That has been my experience with cyano.

[dominicOv]

Thank you for your advice. I looked on the internet and i will test the Easy life Blue exit as it has good reviews. I will keep you updated.

[dominicOv]

Great news!!! 12 discus are arriving next week, wednesday :guitarist: :drummer: very excited :D

I finished the diy food for them, hope they will like it...


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The only problem that remains is the cyano.... its still coming back. I have 20ppm No3, low light and a 900gal return pump thats making everything move gently in the aquarium.

The only thing that would give this bacteria a chance to come back would be my dose of Ammonia that keeps the filter alive. Would this make sense? I am very confused about this ... I have ordered a bottle of Easy Life Blue Exit to give it a shot...

[bluelagoon]

Seems like Easy Life Exit ingredient is salicylic acid. A aspirin substance like compound found in the willow tree. A week is not enough time for it to work. You need to dose it for up to 14 days without a WC. A black out would be the best way to go IMO. It worked for me a few times. If the plants a hardy they can go without light that long easy. I get it sometime when the days start getting longer and the extra light seems to bring it on in my case. Your tank is near a light source plus lighting. The light treatment is a 3-4 day total black and no peaking to let light in. It's clean, safe for the environment and it works. There is also H2O2 but your'll need the correct amount.

[dominicOv]

Seems like Easy Life Exit ingredient is salicylic acid. A aspirin substance like compound found in the willow tree. A week is not enough time for it to work. You need to dose it for up to 14 days without a WC. A black out would be the best way to go IMO. It worked for me a few times. If the plants a hardy they can go without light that long easy. I get it sometime when the days start getting longer and the extra light seems to bring it on in my case. Your tank is near a light source plus lighting. The light treatment is a 3-4 day total black and no peaking to let light in. It's clean, safe for the environment and it works. There is also H2O2 but your'll need the correct amount.

Right now for its impossible to do a 3,4 day black out as i dont have enough materials to cover the entire tank. I do have plenty H2O2 3% and 6% but i have a lot of Vals in the background that dont like it. I have had some cyano in my older tanks but it dissapeared on its own. I hope it will dissapear after the ATS gets matured. I will do a big water change 1 day before the fishes arrive. Will it be toxic for them if it starts growing while the fishes are in the tank?

[bluelagoon]

The type of cynao that I get here is not that toxic, per say. It stinks. It does use up O2 in the dark(at night) and when it breaks down. But I have never heard of a case in a fish tank where it suffocated fish.

[bluelagoon]

You're correct about the vals not liking H2O2. They also melt if you use liquid CO2 supplements like Excel.

[Mando]

This may not make any sense, however, I used to have diatom in my tank and I tried blacking it out and it always came back. I've been diatom free for about a year now. However, two weeks ago I took away the LED light in my sump and used it for my shrimp tank as it was stronger than the Aqueon bulbs. After 2 days, I noticed my main tank getting diatom again. I normally run my sump light for 6-8 hours each night as the main tank light is off. I also keep plants in my sump and I used to keep shrimps. I put the light back in last week and no more diatom in main tank.

does this make any sense? The filter socks captures all the feces/food and I replace the filter socks once a week, and not even the sump has diatom.

Cannot wait to see pictures of your new arrivals! grats on everything. The tank looks spectacular.

[bluelagoon]

This may not make any sense, however, I used to have diatom in my tank and I tried blacking it out and it always came back. I've been diatom free for about a year now. However, two weeks ago I took away the LED light in my sump and used it for my shrimp tank as it was stronger than the Aqueon bulbs. After 2 days, I noticed my main tank getting diatom again. I normally run my sump light for 6-8 hours each night as the main tank light is off. I also keep plants in my sump and I used to keep shrimps. I put the light back in last week and no more diatom in main tank.

does this make any sense? The filter socks captures all the feces/food and I replace the filter socks once a week, and not even the sump has diatom.

Yes, it makes sense if you put a dimmer light on. Diatoms quickly react to changeing light. It does not seem to grow well in bright lights; usually a higher form of algae will take it's place.

[dominicOv]

The type of cynao that I get here is not that toxic, per say. It stinks. It does use up O2 in the dark(at night) and when it breaks down. But I have never heard of a case in a fish tank where it suffocated fish.

The thing is that i managed to clean the substrate well enought that you dont see any of it left and will continue to do so during the w/c. I will start dosing the Easy Life Blue Exit after one week to let the fish settle. I would prefer not to use anything and let the tank mature on it's own... The only thing that worries me are the discus as i dont have any experience with them and i dont want to panic and add everything at once :bomb:


This may not make any sense, however, I used to have diatom in my tank and I tried blacking it out and it always came back. I've been diatom free for about a year now. However, two weeks ago I took away the LED light in my sump and used it for my shrimp tank as it was stronger than the Aqueon bulbs. After 2 days, I noticed my main tank getting diatom again. I normally run my sump light for 6-8 hours each night as the main tank light is off. I also keep plants in my sump and I used to keep shrimps. I put the light back in last week and no more diatom in main tank.

does this make any sense? The filter socks captures all the feces/food and I replace the filter socks once a week, and not even the sump has diatom.

Cannot wait to see pictures of your new arrivals! grats on everything. The tank looks spectacular.

Thank you for your kind words. I strongly believe that the cyano will go away by itself as the tank matures and other algae will compete for it especially when the ATS will start to produce more. Today i was really happy to see the first green growth on the screen. yaaay :heart2:

[dominicOv]

Babies arrived !!! :balloon: :balloon: :balloon:

I checked the bags and everyone is alive. I added some aquarium water around their bags to help them adapt to the temperature and then i will open the bags and start adding water from the aquarium. I've set the overall temp to 27*C (80.6 F) as to what they recommend on their site and will slowly adjust to @ 29*C (84.2 F) in the following days. Is it ok to skip food for the first day?

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[bluelagoon]

The best way to put new discus in the tank is to plop and drop after you bring them to temp in bags in the tank. Some folks will never open the bag and put water in it and wait to accliminate. Once the bag is opened the the outside air quickly makes the PH rise and ammonia toxic. You might get some ammonia burns doing the acclimation method with opened bags.

[bluelagoon]

I see no reason why you can't feed the first day, They're hurry.

[dominicOv]

Here are some photos. They are a cute bunch even tho some are pretty small. I tried to feed them but they are not touching anything for now. I really hope they will lose black stripes later on, maybe i will buy more plants to cover the back ground so they dont see too much black....

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[danotaylor]

Vibrant colors and looking nice! Did you say you got them from Stendker? The fins on the blue diamonds are very odd shape. Sometimes camera angle plays trick on the viewer. Do they appear odd in person, different from the other strains finnage?

[dominicOv]

Thank you! Yes you are correct, the blue diamonds have longer fins than usual but maybe the camera shows a bit too much. They are not directly from Stendker as they sell only to retailers. They are from a hatchery in Belgium where they buy Stendker couples and then they sell the offspring.

[bluelagoon]

The BD shape is called angle fin strain. It is a deformity that some folks like and are bred for this these days. Bull dog is another deformity that once was a cull, but these days odd things is what people go for.

[danotaylor]

Thanks Merv. I've never heard of or seen the "angle fin" strain...looks like a shark fin up top...

[dominicOv]

It's been 2 days and i'm still trying to make them eat. They are coming to the glass, they are curious when i drop the food but they wont even try it. I end up siphoning 30 mins later. Is this normal?

[bluelagoon]

Sorry that was "angel fin". Also called "sharkfin" and "boomerang" these days. The more pronounced fins look like some of the discus in this link. https://www.google.com/search?q=angel+fin+discus&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=aTzYPsApCnZ6XM%253A%252CZprTfwFd-bdMDM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQWqOGS1lG4YGf2epXtBkPWfyebmQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjS_MX-sLflAhXMJt8KHZZLCwMQ9QEwAHoECAMQBg#imgrc=aTzYPsApC nZ6XM:&vet=1