growth retardation

[khaled]

hi all, I miss you, one month ago I brought 7 juvis. almost of the same size, now 3 of them grow in a good rate, another 3 is growing ok, but little than the others, the problem is with the 7th, it is very retard, i believe that she has a problem, I upload a video and some pics if it can help

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaD-krGqWJs&feature=youtu.be

thanks a lot, I really need your opinion

[brewmaster15]

Hi Khaled,

Best guess is the one with the slow growth has worms, probably capillaria.. Which means the whole group probably has some...this one is just the weakest,

Do you have access to any dewormers for fish or livestock?

al

[khaled]

thanks a lot al for quick reply, please can you suggest a safe dewormers to used in the main tank, and I will look for it in the pharmacies

[brewmaster15]

Levamisole is the best all around dewormer IME and its tolerated by most fish... can be added to food or water.

Next up is fenbendazole added to their food....not the tank.


Flubendazole can be added to the water or food.

piperazine is used for nematodes and may be found where you are

Praziquantel should be availible where you ..its used in your area of the world to treat schistosomiasis.....its effective on some worms and reported to work on capillaria but I am not sure it does.


al

[khaled]

al, you are the best in the world :) , I believe in my country we have all these treatments, but in another names, Levamisole is called zental as a market name, anyway I need the instructions to use it, the dose and how to please, thanks a lot bro

[khaled]

Flubendazole 100mg./5ml 124941
can I use it ?

or this 124942

[brewmaster15]

You can use either. The levamisole would be my first choice unless theres a huge price difference.

read this article..

http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/nematodes.shtml

it will tell you about nematodes and the dosing of levamisole.

hth,
al

[khaled]

both are very cheap, I will try levamisole as you recommend. If you please I have more question, I do WC 70% daily, and feed only my own BH mix, and clean the tank every time after feeding them, the tank is 80 gallon BB, and contain only 7 discus, nothing else, what can I do to prevent this disease ? thank you very much

[LizStreithorst]

You are giving your fish excellent care. Unfortunately, worms and diseases can never be irradiated, nor should they be. Pathogens always exist in or on fish. I'm of the belief that if the immune system has nothing external to keep it strong it will start attacking it's own body looking for a job to do. This is just my thought, not something that is proven fact.

Most often it is the most bullied fish that shows symptoms first, but as Al said all the fish are carrying it, just dealing with it. When you treat one sick fish in a tank, you should treat all of them.

What concerns me is that this is a syrup not a powder like we get in the States. Does the label give the inactive ingredients? If it's something to make it sweet tasting for human consumption I'd be wary of putting in in a fish tank. If the label says it's a fish med it's fine. The flubenol you have is excellent but it won't help you if you have a fish that is not eating.

I have a question for Al. When you saw the pic of the sick fish expelling white poo why was your first thought not hex. It was my thought. My rule of thumb is that a fish that eats but get skinny has worms and a fish that is skinny and doesn't eat has hex, especially when I see white poo.

[khaled]

hi mama, thanks a lot for your valuable information, actually I have levamisole as tablets and syrup, it is cheap and high available where I live, it contain levamisole as HCL, I may taste it for any sweetener but I will use the tablets. all my fishes are eating very well, I was thinking that the white boob is because the overfeeding, the only symptoms of one fish is it doesnt grow normally, but it is very active and eat well, I think I have to use 300 mg for my tank, and I will do 70% WC after 24 hours, is there any other recommendations like turn off light or stop feeding them ? thanks a lot

[brewmaster15]

Liz,

I have a question for Al. When you saw the pic of the sick fish expelling white poo why was your first thought not hex. It was my thought. My rule of thumb is that a fish that eats but get skinny has worms and a fish that is skinny and doesn't eat has hex, especially when I see white poo. Thats a pretty fair rule of thumb. My reason for the worm diagnosis is largely gut feelings and experience but that feces doesn't look like hex.. its too solid and isn't white and slimy, looks tinged yellow which is often times a sign of capillaria worms. I also got the impression that the fish acts normal other than not gaining weight. Khaled came across as if this was a long term issue with the fish, but that hes at the point where he is concerned.

Best we can do is guess at this stuff based on our past experiences... Mine say worms.:)

al

[brewmaster15]

hi mama, thanks a lot for your valuable information, actually I have levamisole as tablets and syrup, it is cheap and high available where I live, it contain levamisole as HCL, I may taste it for any sweetener but I will use the tablets. all my fishes are eating very well, I was thinking that the white boob is because the overfeeding, the only symptoms of one fish is it doesnt grow normally, but it is very active and eat well, I think I have to use 300 mg for my tank, and I will do 70% WC after 24 hours, is there any other recommendations like turn off light or stop feeding them ? thanks a lot

That the fish "he only symptoms of one fish is it doesnt grow normally, but it is very active and eat well" is a good indicator of worms.

[brewmaster15]

You do not really need to turn off the lights but medicating fish can sometimes make them jumpy. Lights out helps.

al

[khaled]

thanks al, I already start the med. can I feed them during the med or not ?

[brewmaster15]

Yes you can feed them if they will eat...sometimes they go off their food when dewormed with levamisol.. its temporary.

Al

[khaled]

hi Al, how can I know if the treatments is going ok and my fishes are healed ? what if the dose is weak, can I extend it for another 24 hours ?

[khaled]

hi Al, first I thank you very much for your help, I done the treatment using levamisole for 24 hours, I notice that some fishes gill are open a little after WC. also I notice that the fishes look more colorful, but the are afraid and shy, I want to ask if I can add salt now to the tank to help the gill? also is it mandatory to repeat the levamesole treatments after 3 weeks or not ? thanks a lot my lord :)

[brewmaster15]

hi Al, first I thank you very much for your help, I done the treatment using levamisole for 24 hours, I notice that some fishes gill are open a little after WC. also I notice that the fishes look more colorful, but the are afraid and shy, I want to ask if I can add salt now to the tank to help the gill? also is it mandatory to repeat the levamesole treatments after 3 weeks or not ? thanks a lot my lord :)

Hi Khaled,
lol,,,

on your ??? You really should retreat to be sure you killed all worms and to catch their eggs as well. Generally 3 treatments each 24 hours is whats used...or at least, its what I use. day 1 , day 7, day 21 or something close to that. Its normal for them to be skittish/shy after levamisole ...it will pass in a few days and they begin to act more normal. Its also common for them to look more colorful temporarily.

You also questioned how you can know if the worms are gone...Only way is to use a microscope and check their feces. Hopefully your sick one will starting having normal feces soon which would be a very good sign.


Hth,
al

[Mando]

hi Al, first I thank you very much for your help, I done the treatment using levamisole for 24 hours, I notice that some fishes gill are open a little after WC. also I notice that the fishes look more colorful, but the are afraid and shy, I want to ask if I can add salt now to the tank to help the gill? also is it mandatory to repeat the levamesole treatments after 3 weeks or not ? thanks a lot my lord :)

This is the deworming procedure i'm following from Al's write up. You can combine with epsom salt and in your case, regular salt.

Week One: Many Frequent water changes, observe fish behavior, and treat for anything specifically noted******. Be sure all fish are eating well and passing normal feces.
Week Two: Prophylactic deworming with Praziquantel for tape worms, several days later deworm with general dewormer (levamisole) added to water as 24 hour bath
Week Three: Repeat Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Four: Let rest, nothing but water changes.
Week Five: Re-dose with Levamisole as 24 hour bath
Week Six: Quarantine is over if the fish are looking healthy and eating well.

[khaled]

thanks mando for your contribution, thanks dear Al, so using sodium chloride (table salt) now is safe?
combining levamisole with salt is ok ?

[khaled]

Hi dear Al , how do you do, again I want to confirm { you are the best } my friend, thank you very much, the treatment process is ok. feces are black and the fishes looking good. I used only one dose of levamesole for 24 Hours. I want to ask is it really necessary to use three dose or may be sufficient to repeat the treatment only one more time after 3 weeks from the first dose?

[Mando]

Hi dear Al , how do you do, again I want to confirm { you are the best } my friend, thank you very much, the treatment process is ok. feces are black and the fishes looking good. I used only one dose of levamesole for 24 Hours. I want to ask is it really necessary to use three dose or may be sufficient to repeat the treatment only one more time after 3 weeks from the first dose?

repeat the doses on the 7, and 21st day. This is to catch any stragglers and any eggs that were left behind.

[brewmaster15]

repeat the doses on the 7, and 21st day. This is to catch any stragglers and any eggs that were left behind.

This is what I do too Khaled. If you don't you risk having to deal with this again in a few months and there is always the chance drug resistance will occur if you missed some worms that were a little resistant to the wormer.


hth,
al

[khaled]

thanks brothers, I have one more question please, does levamesole treatment will cause permanent infertility ? I know my fishes are very young but I m sure levamesole effect temporary human fertility, so do I will get infertile fishes ?

[LizStreithorst]

No.

[khaled]

No.

short answer is a good answer, thanks dear Mama Bear

[LizStreithorst]

Thank you sweet khaled.

[khaled]

Is using epsom salt after levamesole bath important ? I was thinking epsom salt use only for constipation, do I need it for de-worming ?
thank you all for your help.

khaled

[Mando]

I doesn’t hurt to use it. Helps them expel the worm.

[khaled]

thanks brother, but I think some fishes have gill problem, so I prefer not to use any med increase the problem, does salts do ?

[khaled]

is there any medication that help gills?

[Tuterosso]

black alder cones

[khaled]

Dear fiends, I miss you all, wish all of you are fine, after 9 months of keeping my juvi discus I end up with those, I know they are still young some how, I wonder if they can get better and bigger or they are all suffering Stunting. I wish I hear your opinion, Thanks a lot

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sorry for the bad quality of the camera, I will try to take more clear photos.

[LizStreithorst]

They look healthy to me. I don't see any signs of stunting at all except for that one little one who was compromised early on. Growth proceeds much more slowly after the fish reach the size of around 4".

[khaled]

They look healthy to me. I don't see any signs of stunting at all except for that one little one who was compromised early on. Growth proceeds much more slowly after the fish reach the size of around 4".

thanks a lot dear Liz. I think they are 13 months old now, but I didnt see any sign of maturity, Is this strains take so long ? The three blue ones are red turquoise? thanks a lot

[LizStreithorst]

what size are they now? I can't tell from the picture. Are they all eating well?

[khaled]

what size are they now? I can't tell from the picture. Are they all eating well?

the three turq. are almost 4", more or less, the pigeon is smaller, I think it is 3", and the blue diamond is completely stunt, they are all healthy and eat very well

[LizStreithorst]

If they're eating well and pooping black and your feeding lots with lots of WC you're doing all you can do. People always talk about their huge 6+" Discus but they measure with the "man's ruler" rather than I real ruler.