Discus + Planted - substrate

[janivr]

Hi,
Would this be a good substrate for a planted discus tank?
https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detail/6467/jbl-proscape-plant-soil-beige#6707400

Thanks

[Sturiosoma]

Substrate whether in a discus tank or otherwise can be very difficult to clean, I prefer to pot my plants and use a fine gravel for substrate.

Jeanne

[janivr]

Thanks,
What makes the gravel easier to clean?

[Sturiosoma]

I can only speak from my experience, if you're plants are potted you can pretty much clean all around them on the bottom ,where as a plant substrate is going to make a mess when you go in there to clean.

Jeanne

[bluelagoon]

Thanks,
What makes the gravel easier to clean?

Did you mean gadget like this. https://www.amazon.ca/Python-16PC-Pro-Clean-Gravel-Washer/dp/B001V6Y3LY/ref=asc_df_B001V6Y3LY/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=292845439659&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=2919980840757858309&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1002110&hvtargid=pla-311934648225&psc=1

[Filip]

Hi and welcome Janivr .
Theese planted substrates are ideal for plants , especialy if you run a high tech planted with additional fertilization .
They are not well suited for discus though, because they trap a lot of dirt and gunk and may foul the water more than discus can tolerate .Plants on the other hand love dirt and gunk , deep in their root zones .

[janivr]

Thanks,
So what substrate would be best for low-tech discus tank?
Thanks

[danotaylor]

Inert pool filter sand. You can use root tabs for planted plants and secure ferns, anubias etc to rocks or wood

[janivr]

Too tough for plants. I need something in the between.
Please advise.
Thanks

[Mando]

Inert pool filter sand. You can use root tabs for planted plants and secure ferns, anubias etc to rocks or wood

+1 you can do a nice thin layer of this pool filter sand under $20 from HD or any pool store. I paid $9.99 for a 50lb bag.

[Mando]

Too tough for plants. I need something in the between.
Please advise.
Thanks

It's not too tough. I'm growing out a ton of stem plants in my shrimp tank using sand. However, if you want, you can buy some of eheim substrate or any plant substrate of your choice and add it to the back half of the tank and then cover everything with sand. So you'll have a half inch of sand up front and about 1.5inch in the rear.

[janivr]

Thanks.
Would you please share some pics so I can learn?
If I put substrate (height?) under the 1/1.5 inch sand I'll have less dirt?
Thanks

[Mando]

Thanks.
Would you please share some pics so I can learn?
If I put substrate (height?) under the 1/1.5 inch sand I'll have less dirt?
Thanks

Sorry, my shrimp tank is 100% pool filter sand. I was just throwing out an idea of what you could do it you are adamant about having planted substrate.

If you have never done discus before and you really want to learn a planted tank, you might have to set up two tanks. One, to learn the discus requirements and, then, one to learn the planted tanks and its requirements. When you're more experienced ,then you can merge the two.

[janivr]

I had discus planted with gravel. Not good.
(Very long time ago).
I guess my question should be how hard it to maintain a clean tank with substrateor which option is better.
Thanks

[Filip]

The best compromise IMO would be PFS sand with thin layer of plant mineral substrate or dirt traped underneath .
I do pots for my planted discus tank and they are made in this , dirt capped with sand , manner.

[bluelagoon]

Layering substrate in a discus won't work for long. It must be deep cleaned using a pathon around the plants. You can use roots, rocks, ranches and even leaves if you want a natural looking discus tank. Discus in the wild are usually not found where plants grow year round. More in flooded forest areas. Best answer so far is post #6 IMO.

[janivr]

Thanks.
Where can I see your planted discus sand tanks?

[Filip]

Thanks.
Where can I see your planted discus sand tanks?

Here is my thread from my grow out tank :
In the first post of the thread you have another link from the previous set ups :

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?128066-65-G-Stendker-juvie-mix-growout-thread/page4

[janivr]

This is sand? How did the plants grow?
Thanks

[discuspaul]

Here's one of mine from years ago - Pool filter sand - approx. 1/2" in front, and no more than 2" at the rear where the plants
are located - the plants did well with root tabs and some liquid ferts.


125045

[discuspaul]

Here's another - about a year before the previous one, also PFS with juvenile red snakeskins, and fairly similar plantings set-up.


125046

[janivr]

Nice! Is it still low-tech or it requires higher maintenance because of the ferts.
If I put the JBL proscap, no need to worry about ferts and it provides good water quality for the discus...

[discuspaul]

Low tech and easy maintenance.

IME with discus and to the best of my knowledge, there is no plant-beneficial, or plant-friendly, substrate material that provides sufficiently good water quality for discus. Go with PFS.

[Mando]

Low tech and easy maintenance.

IME with discus and to the best of my knowledge, there is no plant-beneficial, or plant-friendly, substrate material that provides sufficiently good water quality for discus. Go with PFS.

Beautiful tanks, Paul!

[discuspaul]

Thanks Armando

[janivr]

Amazing!

[janivr]

What do you think of this one?
https://youtu.be/uG8d3FPf3ag

Thanks

[Sturiosoma]

Too weird for me

Jeanne

[bluelagoon]

What do you think of this one?
https://youtu.be/uG8d3FPf3ag

Thanks

It's a nice looking tank but not a discus set up. The substrate is all wrong for discus, especially young discus. There's no way to deep clean it.

[discuspaul]

Some would say that fellow sure knows how to aqua-scape, and the finished product looks great.

Overall though, it's a very poor environment and set-up for discus, imo- for a variety of reasons.
It's a risky big trouble for discus waiting to happen.

[Sturiosoma]

Have I found a friend in Mervin, and why not go into detail with your beliefs along with Paul after all this is a open forum regarding the keeping of discus, whats the worse that could happen

Jeanne

Jhappen

[Filip]

I would call this a grand slam for a very experienced expert in both discus and planted tanks , BUT without the carpeting plant .
Full grown discus , a lot of daily maintainence , very low bioload along with a lots of experience , would be able to pull this off with discus in it on the long run .

[janivr]

So, it is better to have substrate only or leave some space for sand?
Thanks

[Filip]

So, it is better to have substrate only or leave some space for sand?
Thanks

You have already asked this question in your first post of this thread and there have been at least a dozen post from different members explaining the pros and contras of both substrate and sand .
Please go back and re read the thread to find an answer to the same question that has already been discussed here.

[janivr]

I've asked about planted discus tank.
I hot lots of great answers. Thanks.

Now, following those answers, I was wondering how difficult it is to maintain a clean aquarium with both substrate and sand (as Andrea designed) vs. substrate only.

Thanks again

[bluelagoon]

Many hours of love, devotion, know how and labour each and every day.

[janivr]

Thanks!
How difficult it is to maintain a clean aquarium with both substrate and sand (as Andrea designed) vs. substrate only?
Thanks again.

[bluelagoon]

It is not dificult to maintain a clean substate, but you gotta clean it. Most folks might skip this during WC's.

[janivr]

Thanks,
And havnig a mixed substrate like Andrea did, may help to keep it clean or will require more/same cleaning policy?

[bluelagoon]

Most folks on here seem to like sand for "discus", so that debris don't get trapped like pea stone/ gravel would. With sand you can get away with skimming most of the waste from the bottom.

[janivr]

Thanks
And with mixed like Andrea did?

[bluelagoon]

Like mentioned layering needs cleaning in most set ups due to trapped debris = all kinds of nastys in the anaerobic areas. They live in abounants without O2 and not cleaning them out helps incourage diseases like Hexmetia. See you in the hospital posts.

[janivr]

It is not layering... Like Andrea did.

[bluelagoon]

It is not layering... Like Andrea did.

Who's Andrea and where's her post?

[janivr]

https://youtu.be/uG8d3FPf3ag

[Second Hand Pat]

https://youtu.be/uG8d3FPf3ag

There is no way you can keep an aquarium clean like Adrie (guy in the video) designed as there is no way to clean amongst the rocks without taking the rock apart and the underlying structure. I suggest you email him and ask how long that tank was setup. Many tanks like this are setup during a aqua-cape show then taken down a few days later.

My question for you janivr is have you keep discus before or maintained a planted tank? If you have done neither I suggest you get experience in both before trying to mix them and do a whole lot of research before attempting either one.
Pat

[janivr]

I'll ask him.
I had both discus and planted in the past.
In the past I was trying to grow them in a planted tank with not the best community.
Now my goal is to get 5-6 adults and keep planted.
My thought was, that it will be easier to clean the Sand part of the aquarium, where I'm going to through all food. If most of the food leftovers will fall on the sand it might be easier to keep a clean tank.
The other option is to have all tank with only substrate no sand at all.

My question is, will it be easier to clean and maintain?

Thanks again

[Second Hand Pat]

The courser your substrate the harder it is to keep clean. Sand keeps everything on top. If you mix a substrate under the sand you generally end up mixing the two together if you push the gravel cleaner into the mix too deep.
Pat

[Filip]

Yes more sand area you have and less substrate area in your tank cleaner your water Column will be . It's proportional more substrate more area to fill up with gunk and debris .

[janivr]

Not on top. Aside

[Sturiosoma]

I have a planted tank, all my plants are potted and I use a fine gravel substrate, when I do a water change I don't just remove water I get down in the bottom of the tank with my phython and move as much gravel around that I can removing all l uneaten food and any thing else laying on the bottom of the tank

Jeanne

[bluelagoon]

In time the finer sand will end up on the bottom layer and the bigger stuff will be in top. With all the cleaning that will be needed it will in a short time not look like when set up. Like mentioned these planted tanks look good that you see on You Tube but don't look like that long. I remember when all my tanks were planted and would have them no other way. They change a lot over short peroids of time with trimming and such. Things changed up a bit when I got into discus. The WC's took place of the time invested in planted tanks. I do know that planted tanks with "adult discus" require a daily routine and you really need to syphon around the roots of the plants. I've always had low teck but did some with EI ferts. and worked well with discus.

[bluelagoon]

In the vedio on You Tube he puts mesh liner between layers, not good for a discus thank.

[janivr]

Adrie had this exact tank for more than two years before he sold it as is to someone else.
It did work for him.

[Filip]

Adrie had this exact tank for more than two years before he sold it as is to someone else.
It did work for him.

He should be the guy than ,that knows exactly what he needed in terms of cost , equipment and time to succefuly run a (discus I guess ? ) planted scape like that. Sound like asking him directly and taking his advices to heart would be your best bet . That's at least what I would do if I want to replicate a tank that I was inspired by.