Is it normal my panda corydoras are still alive?

[GqyForPay]

So I expected my panda corydoras will die due to 9 deaths(some bloated from eating too much and some died randomly ouy of nowhere). I had 21 corydoras and now I only have 12. So far they have been in my tank for at least a month now and surprisingly none of them are dying. One of them has one blind eye. Usually people on the interner told me panda corydoras will die in 84 degree temperature and are not compatible with discus's temperature. When I first got them, I didn't think of the research so I was just wondering if this is normal and if anyone else have their own corydoras surviving in a discus tank. Also I saw these rare black corydoras, if anyone has any experience on them would appreciate the info on them. Very unique corydora, but pricey 20 dollar for one.

[Sturiosoma]

Most corydoras come from different waters than discus, mainly cooler, if you're looking for something to put on the bottom the Hypancistrus pleco work well most stay on the small side, I have the L260, another one that would work well is sturisoma or whiptail catfish both of which I have and are doing well, and if you're still stuck on a corydoras I would go with the sterbai.

Jeanne

[brewmaster15]

So I expected my panda corydoras will die due to 9 deaths(some bloated from eating too much and some died randomly ouy of nowhere). I had 21 corydoras and now I only have 12. So far they have been in my tank for at least a month now and surprisingly none of them are dying. One of them has one blind eye. Usually people on the interner told me panda corydoras will die in 84 degree temperature and are not compatible with discus's temperature. When I first got them, I didn't think of the research so I was just wondering if this is normal and if anyone else have their own corydoras surviving in a discus tank. Also I saw these rare black corydoras, if anyone has any experience on them would appreciate the info on them. Very unique corydora, but pricey 20 dollar for one.

I think theres a general misunderstanding about the temperature ranges a fish species can survive. Its that word "survive" . Yes there will always be some representatives in a group of fish (same species) that can " survive" temperature extremes outside the normal range for a bit. Thats not to say they "thirve" though. Usually they die sooner, get sick more often, grow poorly etc.

Hobbyists should really Strive for fish to Thrive, not just Survive. sounds sappy I know but its true. Its why I cringe when someone posts they keep their discus at 78 F or at 98F why? its outside their window and yes they may survive a bit.. They won't thrive and will die prematurely. So be careful when you try and keep a fish outside its normal range.. it may not have issues initially but most will eventually.

hth,
al

ps Jeanne's suggest of sterbai is very good one.

[Willie]

My experience with pandas is that the young ones are not heat tolerant, but the adults are. So you'll see losses with young pandas, but the old ones can handle 84F.

Willie

[Discluv]

I think theres a general misunderstanding about the temperature ranges a fish species can survive. Its that word "survive" . Yes there will always be some representatives in a group of fish (same species) that can " survive" temperature extremes outside the normal range for a bit. Thats not to say they "thirve" though. Usually they die sooner, get sick more often, grow poorly etc.

Hobbyists should really Strive for fish to Thrive, not just Survive. sounds sappy I know but its true. Its why I cringe when someone posts they keep their discus at 78 F or at 98F why? its outside their window and yes they may survive a bit.. They won't thrive and will die prematurely. So be careful when you try and keep a fish outside its normal range.. it may not have issues initially but most will eventually.

hth,
al

ps Jeanne's suggest of sterbai is very good one.

Thanks, Al for acknowledging that corydoras, like discus, have a temperature in which they thrive and that in which they merely survive. A majority of the members on this site would never agree to keep a discus at 78 degrees long term ( 4 degrees lower than that recommended at 82 degrees) but have no problem stating that their corydoras are "fine" from 82-86 degrees at discus temperatures. What is intolerable for one fish is "acceptable" for another.

As you stated, at high temperatures, corydoras lives are greatly curtailed by temperature stress due to a too high, ramped-up metabolic rate or secondary bacterial infections that take advantage of the weakened immune systems of temperature-stressed fish. This language, the risk of long-term " environmental stress" and the likelihood of this stress causing "secondary conditions" should be a well-known to discus keepers. It extends to all fish- not just discus.
If you go to Planet Catfish and use their search tool to find corydoras catfish that will live long-term in temperatures above 82 degrees you will get a recommendation of ZERO. If you ask a reputable specialist in corydoras species ( like Ian Fuller on Corydoras World) if corydoras species which can handle discus temperatures--- it will be an emphatic "no!"


Corydoras sterbei actually shouldn't be kept at discus temperatures for prolonged periods as well. There temperature range is 75-82 degrees. 82 degrees being the extreme upper-most range experienced in wild seasonally.

[Willie]

...Corydoras sterbei actually shouldn't be kept at discus temperatures for prolonged periods as well. There temperature range is 75-82 degrees. 82 degrees being the extreme upper-most range experienced in wild seasonally.

Without upsetting the Planet Catfish people, I would disagree that their reference is a limitation. I use Plant Catfish a lot since I collect lots of different plecos and corydoras. The fact is that their temperature ranges have not been tested.

For example, to say that the temperature range for sterbai is 75 - 82F would imply that this species will have shortened lives at < 74F or > 83F. That's certainly never been tested. My sterbais have lived 3 - 4 years at 84F without substantial losses. That's not to say 84F is a recommendation, but does suggest that the temperature ranges are directional. The level of dissolved oxygen and frequency of water changes will contribute significantly to the effect of water temperature.

I also run into similar vagueness on the choice of food. Some of plecos characterized as strict omnivores will preferentially eat meat, while others characterized as meat eaters seem to feed solely on algae wafers.

Again, I consider Planet Catfish to be a great resource. I use the website before ordering new plecos, etc. But I also consider how they can test their recommendations.

Willie

[Discluv]

Without upsetting the Planet Catfish people, I would disagree that their reference is a limitation. I use Plant Catfish a lot since I collect lots of different plecos and corydoras. The fact is that their temperature ranges have not been tested.

For example, to say that the temperature range for sterbai is 75 - 82F would imply that this species will have shortened lives at < 74F or > 83F. That's certainly never been tested. My sterbais have lived 3 - 4 years at 84F without substantial losses. That's not to say 84F is a recommendation, but does suggest that the temperature ranges are directional. The level of dissolved oxygen and frequency of water changes will contribute significantly to the effect of water temperature.

I also run into similar vagueness on the choice of food. Some of plecos characterized as strict omnivores will preferentially eat meat, while others characterized as meat eaters seem to feed solely on algae wafers.

Again, I consider Planet Catfish to be a great resource. I use the website before ordering new plecos, etc. But I also consider how they can test their recommendations.

Willie

Its never been tested? These temperature recommendations for various corydoras species are not isolated to the opinions of individuals on Planet Catfish, they are based on the scientific knowledge of ichthyologists and collectors in the field and breeders who keep and raise these fish just like you do discus.

Do discus temperatures not have a basis in validity because they "have not been tested" - no, of course not. These temperature ranges have been determined both from scientists in the field as well as serious hobbyists breeders who have established these temps as necessary due to their biology ( which is itself conditioned by the makeup of the geography they are endemic too).

It is amazing to me that the lines that distinguish discus temperatures are so clearly and rigidly drawn among serious/knowledgeable dfiscus keepers; yet, this same due diligence to a species requirements are not extended to another species commonly kept in the discus aquarium- corydoras. I think that this is primarily due to a lack of study of the species before they are kept.

[bluelagoon]

I would think that the Amazon has different temps throughout. That leads me to believe that some corys do better in those temps to where they are found. Take cardinals and neons. Cardinals seem to do better than neons at higher temps. Most Corys do better with neons and the environment to which they came. Cardinals come from more acid warm water. Most neons are farm raised in cooler water..