Water Aging

[fljones3]

I thought I might post my sad story. I was always going to "get-around-to-it" and set up a water aging system for my 75g tank of discus. I have had some PH issues with my local water but nothing serious. Yesterday, I did a 40% WC. Nothing unusual about that, 3-4x a week. I came back with all my 2 year old discus shedding, gills inflamed, head standing, breathing heavy. I ended up with 5 of 8 dead. It was miserable to deal with and watch. I am thinking about getting rid of these at my LFS whenever Al has another discus sale to start over. PLEASE don't do as I, and put off (or think unnecessary) a water aging system. With only 3 I probably will begin more aggression.

What recommendations and equipment would you have to get to set up such a system. I really don't want to drill in my wall or floor. Of course, I don't have a lot of space. It would either go in a closet (mold issues?) or bath. Perhaps beside the tank depending on the size (40g??).

[Megalodon]

What dechlorinator were you using, if any?

[fljones3]

What dechlorinator were you using, if any?

Prime

[Willie]

I use a 2-tier approach with fish tanks on the top and similar tanks for aging water on the bottom. Your footprint would stay the same.

Willie

[Sturiosoma]

How do you go about doing a water change, straight from the tap, and what is your water source, municipal, well, other.

Jeanne

[Tshethar]

So sorry to hear about your losses. That's terrible. Good of you to try to use your bad experience to counsel others who might be deciding how to get set up and thinking about what either they need to do, or they might be able to get away with.

For me, the aging barrel and the long hoses with pump are not that much fun. But one gets used to it, and it sure beats the alternative you describe. I added a sediment and carbon prefilter to my setup as well.

Brute trash cans work well, certainly in bathrooms and probably in closets too if there is some duct work blowing air in there or at least some ventilation. I use one with a lid on top of some rigid foam. Nice to keep them on tile or concrete if possible, as sooner or later some water ends up on the floor. They can be set up on rollers, too, though I just use a long python hose with mine.

I thought about using a more decorative rain barrel in the living room near or next to my tank. You can make those look like planters if you are more creative and motivated than I was. Willie's use of another aquarium works, too.

Personally, I don't get pH swing, but I do get winter microbubbles and have also had the dreaded seasonal issues with my water, maybe from extra chlorine or chloramine dosings from the town water folks, I don't know. But I have seen my fish in a bad way after a water change before, and for reasons I wasn't sure about. Not fun. I really like having the extra insurance that comes with the barrel, and would encourage newbies not to skip this step when planning things.

[Megalodon]

Prime

When I use Prime I dose at 5 mL per 10 gal. I would at least triple dose Prime.

[fljones3]

Water source is municipal. I guess that they upped the base (>7) in order to protect the piping during the winter months. That gave too much of a PH swing which crashed the tank. PH crash also affects other aspects of water chemistry. Although sadden, it's a lesson worth learning going forward. It was at their expense, however.

As far as the water conditioner, I think that was fine. I usually dose to double dose Prime anyway.

[fljones3]

So sorry to hear about your losses. That's terrible. Good of you to try to use your bad experience to counsel others who might be deciding how to get set up and thinking about what either they need to do, or they might be able to get away with.

For me, the aging barrel and the long hoses with pump are not that much fun. But one gets used to it, and it sure beats the alternative you describe. I added a sediment and carbon prefilter to my setup as well.

Brute trash cans work well, certainly in bathrooms and probably in closets too if there is some duct work blowing air in there or at least some ventilation. I use one with a lid on top of some rigid foam. Nice to keep them on tile or concrete if possible, as sooner or later some water ends up on the floor. They can be set up on rollers, too, though I just use a long python hose with mine.

I thought about using a more decorative rain barrel in the living room near or next to my tank. You can make those look like planters if you are more creative and motivated than I was. Willie's use of another aquarium works, too.

Personally, I don't get pH swing, but I do get winter microbubbles and have also had the dreaded seasonal issues with my water, maybe from extra chlorine or chloramine dosings from the town water folks, I don't know. But I have seen my fish in a bad way after a water change before, and for reasons I wasn't sure about. Not fun. I really like having the extra insurance that comes with the barrel, and would encourage newbies not to skip this step when planning things.

Thanks Bill. What size Brute trash can do you use? That setup is what I have been thinking.

[brady]

Frank
How long do you age your water?
Reason I ask is that it sounds you pumped into the tank with out letting
all the gas bubbles out and your fish simply suffocated.
Jay

[Tshethar]

Frank, I've been using the smaller of two options, which I think is 32 gallons. (Let me check... yup, that's it. And actually, I see they have both a 44, which I remembered, and also a 55 came up in Google as well. That's new for me.)

If indoor space is at a premium, I definitely think you can get away with the 32 gallon, especially if you don't usually have pH swing and you're only or primarily servicing one 75-gallon tank.

I sometimes wish I had a little more to work with--maybe a second barrel, maybe a bigger one--but that's because I am now using it for 3 tanks--a 90 and two 40 breeders all with discus in them, at least for the time being. I can do what some call "speed aging" by doing one 50-70% water change in the morning and another in the evening for each of the two smaller tanks, which have new or young fish in them, and my adults get whatever I can do about 2-3x per week and don't mind anymore if some or most of their replacement water is not well-aged (though it does go through my prefilters and gets some degassing falling into the barrel before getting pumped to the tank.)

Anyway, you can easily do 50% 2x/day (if necessary if you grow out in the 75) with 12 hour aged water with the one small barrel.

[fljones3]

Thanks Bill. You have been very helpful.

[fljones3]

Is there a necessity for a heater in the barrel? I have read on this site that a drop in temps periodically is good?

[Megalodon]

Heating the water to aquarium temperature ensures there's no excess dissolved gases coming out of solution when added to the tank.

[LizStreithorst]

A heater is most certainly necessary. I keep my Discus at 83 degrees and heat my water to at least 80. An occasional large swing is temp of OK (and sometimes useful once in a while, but the fish will suffer if that's the way you do it all the time.

[fljones3]

Thanks. I just added a heater. :)

[Maddie]

I do keep an aging barrel. I only use the heater in the winter.

[LizStreithorst]

Have you ever checked the temp of the water when you are not using the heater?

[Tshethar]

+1 to the heater. (And thanks for the kind words earlier.)

I used to also keep a temperature controller on the side of my barrel so I could try to temp match. (Unfortunately another one I had failed and I moved this one and haven't replaced it.) I still think this is a good idea if you are in a growout situation with a bunch of small fish and heavy feedings, especially if you're doing massive water changes. Even more moderate ones with a big temp difference could cause stress you don't need with them.

On the other hand, if you stick with adults, you have more leeway with temperature matching (though it's good to be in the ballpark), just like you have with most other things. But I'm with Liz about at least being around 80 most of the time.

[fljones3]

I am still glad I set up the water aging. However, I just learned from my wife’s co-worker that she watered her plants while we were out of town. The plants died. She said that the utility company said that some type of chemical got into the water. I could not find the news report. I thought about calling the water department tomorrow.

[LizStreithorst]

That's very strange.

[Tshethar]

That is weird. Personally, that's why I like the prefilter with carbon between my tap and barrel. Normally I would think it would help with some sort of chlorine dump they might do--and I still treat my tank with Safe with WCs--but I guess there's always a chance of something bad getting in, as unlikely as that would seem.

[fljones3]

Just called the Water Dept. No news item because they have no record of anything unusual with the water. Good thing I checked. It did sound strange.

[Patrick4802]

Is it necessary to run an air stone when aging water?

[danotaylor]

Hi Patrick. An air stone assists the gassing off process and speeds up the"aging" process, so i would say yes to your question. Myself and a few others here also aggressively jet the water we're putting into our aging barrels to promote and speed up the process, but I still use an air stone as well. My water is "aged" (equalized pH) within 3-4 hours the way I do it...

[fljones3]

Is it necessary to run an air stone when aging water?

No sure it is “necessary” but it speeds up the aging process. It also keeps the water circulating. My air stone is positioned at the bottom of the tote.

[LizStreithorst]

I'd call it necessary unless you're wanting to wait until the cows come home for the CO2 to gas off.

[tacks]

do I need an air stone if I used RO water? Ed

[Ksermie]

I recently set up a water aging system. 2 Brute trash cans on wheels 44 gal each. Cleaned with dish detergent & water and left to dry. They have their own heater, lid and air stone. I fill with tap water, let age 24-36 hours. If I let age 36 hrs and test the water the ammonia is at "kill fish" levels, 5-7 ppm. My tap water has 1.0 ppm ammonia What the heck is up?

[Megalodon]

Ammonia tests are prone to interference but it's also possible for water to absorb ammonia from the air.

[Ksermie]

Ok, here's my thoughts. I have a media reactor. Is there any reason I wouldn't use it with zeolite to remove the ammonia in my holding tanks before I do WC's?

[Megalodon]

Ok, here's my thoughts. I have a media reactor. Is there any reason I wouldn't use it with zeolite to remove the ammonia in my holding tanks before I do WC's?

Not that I know of. I've actually been playing with this myself.