Not eating & white feces

[Hardgraf]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I have 6 discus (4") from a local breeder here in Thailand. They have been in my 60 gallon bare bottom tank for just over 2 weeks. Only 3 of the fish are eating vigorously however I have already had eggs laid twice and tended to by two fish who are currently not that interested in food. One fish however which is the biggest of the 6 has not eaten at all. He is producing white/translucent tube like feces. He seemed very confident when they first arrived and seems to have lost his position as top dog of the shoal after considerable in-fighting during the first few days as hierarchy was re-established. When food goes into the tank (pork heart & discus granules) he hides at the back of the tank & is very shy. Shows no interest in food. I have contacted the breeder who has advised me that not eating is common due to stress of moving etc.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Not eating & white/translucent tubular feces. he is generally very shy, tends to rest in the same position near the filter inlet. He looks very healthy.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

None

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

60 gallons, 6 4" discus, 18 Cardinal tetras (all healthy)

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

large daily water changes (60-90%)

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

3 weeks, bare bottom

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No. Shower head & then de-chlorinated as per breeder's advice


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

Thai de-chlorinator

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __86___

- ph __7___

- ammonia reading __0 - 0.25_

- nitrite reading _0_

- nitrate reading __0.25_

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

Tap water in Bangkok. 86 degrees from the tap.


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

Pork heart, Discus granules - 2-3 times per day

12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

125902

Here is the feces. It is long, tubular, jelly like and under bright light looks to be almost completely translucent and not white at all.

125903

[Mando]

Can you put him in a hospital tank? I would start metro @ .05g/gallon. l see a little hole in its head, was that there already?

[Hardgraf]

No hole in the head that's just lighting/detritus floating in the water column

[jeep]

I agree with Armando. The first step in this scenario is to raise temp to 93 and treat with pure Metro for 10-14 days. It's not an emergency and recovery takes a few weeks.
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/internal/hexamitiasis.shtml

[Hardgraf]

Ok thanks guys. Got some medical Flagyl 400mg tablets from the pharmacy today. I did a 90% water change this morning after feeding. I am slowly raising the temperature to 93 Fahrenheit & will start dosing the Flagyl mixed into pork heart & some dissolved & added to the water.

Is adding salt recommended?

Will report back soon!

[Mando]

Salt helps, you can add it, just not for prolonged periods. 1TBS / 10 gallons should be fine in your case. Good luck and keep us posted.

Remember to run the metro for 10-14 days.

[LizStreithorst]

Is Flagyl 100% metro? I used to know back when I worked at a veterinary hospital but I don't remember anymore.

[Mando]

Is Flagyl 100% metro? I used to know back when I worked at a veterinary hospital but I don't remember anymore.

When I saw he posted it, I researched it. There is another form of the flagyl that is not purely metro, but since he only said "flagyl" I assumed it's the pure version.

[LizStreithorst]

Hope so.

[danotaylor]

Flagyl tabs have fillers, but each 400mg tab will have that amount of metro in it. Just be sure to crush and dissolve completely. It's is hard to know how much each fish ingests if you're feeding them due to some getting more than others, and the ones with the worst case of hex tend to be shy and not feed as heavily...they're the ones that need it most

[Hardgraf]

Yes, the fillers do not entirely dissolve. Ultimately you are left with some white residue in the bottom of the tank. In my case 3 fish are not eating so I am turning off the filter & pouring the Metro solution on top of their heads then leaving the filter turned off for 10 mins or so. It's been one day of treatment & so far no more white feces but they're still shy & not eating. Plan to dose daily for 6 days.

[Hardgraf]

Yes this is pure metronidazole - Flagyl 400

[bluelagoon]

Flagyl is the brand name. Mostly used by women with urinary tract infections. Called flagyl because of the type of pathagen it kills.. Flagellates.. I administered a lot of this when I was a nurse. Retired now.

[bluelagoon]

Just as long as the milligrams are right for the right amount of water. It comes in different strengths. 400mg is one strength. How did the vet say to dose it?

[Hardgraf]

It's not from a vet. I bought it at the pharmacy over the counter. The tablets are 400mg metronidazole. I am dosing around 250-300mg per 10 gallons.

I have dosed again before bed this evening as the fish are dark, skittish & not looking great. This is 2nd day of treatment, hopefully tomorrow see some improvement :(

[danotaylor]

Flagyl is the brand name. Mostly used by women with urinary tract infections. Called flagyl because of the type of pathagen it kills.. Flagellates.. I administered a lot of this when I was a nurse. Retired now.

I knew I liked you Merv...I've been an RN for 25yrs. I work as an open heart recovery nurse in a cardiac ICU in Cinci. Bless ya mate!
Sorry for the brief thread hijack Thomas

[Hardgraf]

No problem. Ok day four of metro/high heat/salt treatment. Fish look healthy. Still getting some hiding, translucent feces & 3 fish not interested in food. Will probably stretch the treatment out to 10 days. I am also buying some bloodworm from the breeder today, try to encourage them to start eating

[danotaylor]

Thomas 10 days is the minimum you should treat for, up to 14 if necessary.

[Hardgraf]

Thomas 10 days is the minimum you should treat for, up to 14 if necessary.

Two weeks it is then.

[Hardgraf]

Day 5 of Metro/high heat/salt treatment. Procured some Japanese frozen blood-worm from the discus breeder last night. Have fed twice with some pork heart & all fish have started eating :)

Looks like the blood-worm was just too good to resist. The fish worst affected by the suspected hex is still timid but has started to swim with the shoal & show more interest in food. I will continue the medication.

[Smalone94]

I just started my metro treatment, could only get general cure but my 2.5” who got cold on the flight 10 days ago still wont eat and i finally seen white poop.. any knowledge would be great.

[Mando]

I just started my metro treatment, could only get general cure but my 2.5” who got cold on the flight 10 days ago still wont eat and i finally seen white poop.. any knowledge would be great.

Welcome to the forum. Don't try to feed it. Try to get pure metro from Jehmco and dose .05g/gallon for 10 to 14 days. Start a new thread and fill out the questionnaire so we can better assist you.

[Hardgraf]

Day 7 of Metro & high heat. Upped the dose to around 500mg/10 gallons twice per day. Temp at 92. Everyone is looking healthy apart from the fish that was not eating who is now eating a small amount but only frozen blood worm. He refuses pellets or pork heart. He is still a little dark & hides by the filter outlet a lot but has not detiriated and his feces is still long & stringy but darker and no longer white so hopefully he is recovering slowly. I will keep the Metro up for a minimum of 10 days. I am doing 95% water change every morning after feeding and a further 40% before the 2nd medication at night.

[danotaylor]

Good work Thomas, def on the right track now mate!

[Mando]

You’re on the right track!

[Hardgraf]

Thanks guys. Sure is a learning curve but I'll be proud once hopefully the tank is healthy & settled

[snxtif]

Thomas, do you currently live in Thailand?

Last week we had "cold waves" which hit a low low low low low low record of "18!!!" CELSIUS!!! (64F)

(Feel free to insert any jokes you may find appropriate there. ;) )

But considering this country is 30C+ almost all year long, people in the north sometime die of hypothermia when it hit 10C (50F).

So, if you are in Thailand, might be your fish caught a cold (pun intended), and/or stress from moving to new environment.

But I see that you are doing well with the treatment (great advice from simply crew as always).

Just try to complete the treatment 10-14 days, make sure it completely recovered.

Also, if it's mine, I wouldn't feed it during this period.

Also also, when you finish Metro, (a week or two afterward) I will definitely deworm the fish thoroughly with Levamisole and Praziquantel.
Since most of the breeders/sellers in this country don't give a damn about deworming. (They also say "discus usually live around 2-3 years" but oh well, who am I to judge...)

Good luck with your treatment

fyi, I live in Bangkok, just ask if you need any info.

Cyrus

[Hardgraf]

Hi Cyrus, great to hear from you!

Yes I am also in BKK. My fish are locally bred from P&Y in Thonglor. I adjust the water heat via the shower hose so have ensured that the new water is at least 30 degrees. I don't age the water (Breeder said not to worry) and am de-chlorinating using the Thai de-chlorinator (red & white bottle).

Thanks for de-worming advice. Levamisole and Praziquantel both available from JJ Market?

I have been feeding, found it useful to feed some hikari bloodworms as this is all the sick fish will currently eat & I can soak them in Metronidazole prior to feeding. I am performing a large WC following feeding pork heart every morning.

[snxtif]

I see.

Well, imo P&Y is one of few better sellers so,,, I might tone down my bias a bit lol.

For Prazi you can find in some pharmacy, but for Leva you have to buy online from farm/agriculture supply dealers etc.
Even so, it's for farm animal which is a bit too dodgy for my taste.

I ordered mine from ebay, which for god sake, costed like a discus or so.

For dechlorinator, I think you better order Seachem's "safe" from e-bay, best bang for your baht imo.
That red&white bottle is basically Sodium thiosulphate + water with 100 times overpricing. (you need A LOT of them each wc)
It does indeed dechlorinate, but that's it.
While Seachem safe is Seachem prime in powder form, it helps with other dangerous substance as well as ammonia.

[danotaylor]

S̄wạs̄dī chāy fella's! I see an international discus friendship comin on...nice!

[Mando]

S̄wạs̄dī chāy fella's! I see an international discus friendship comin on...nice!

Don't you just love the unity this forum provides? +1 on the deworming procedure.

[snxtif]

S̄wạs̄dī chāy fella's! I see an international discus friendship comin on...nice!

Sawasdee krub!

Well, you know, music and the love for flat round fish know no bounderies. ;)

[Hardgraf]

Ok so day 12 & probably final day of medication. I'm going to do a 100% WC, give the tank a good clean to rid it of the white residue from the Metro pills & clean the canister filter. The sick fish is still only picking at blood worm & is still a little dark, inactive & spending time on his own. No more white faeces though so hopefully he'll recover fully...

126122

Yes PY have beautiful fish and have been very helpful. The issues have been brought upon entirely by the fish being under stress in my care.

[Second Hand Pat]

If you are using heat as part of the treatment I would suggest continuing to do so until the circled fish is eating. Based on it's head down position I do not think it is feeling well yet.
Pat

[Hardgraf]

No you're right Pat, he still isn't engaged & interested in life, head down a lot & on his own :(

[Second Hand Pat]

No you're right Pat, he still isn't engaged & interested in life, head down a lot & on his own :(

Can you bring your tank temp up to about 88/89?
Pat

[Mando]

Ok so day 12 & probably final day of medication. I'm going to do a 100% WC, give the tank a good clean to rid it of the white residue from the Metro pills & clean the canister filter. The sick fish is still only picking at blood worm & is still a little dark, inactive & spending time on his own. No more white faeces though so hopefully he'll recover fully...

Yes PY have beautiful fish and have been very helpful. The issues have been brought upon entirely by the fish being under stress in my care.

Is the crushed pill not dissolving? there should not be white residue at the bottom. Try to crush it more thoroughly so it dissolves entirely and I would run the course for the 14 days (two more days in your case). If at 14d he is still looking darkish, I'd wait a few days (1 week) before starting metro again. But let the professionals comment on that. I'm not too experienced with a sick fish after 14 days of metro.

[Second Hand Pat]

Is the crushed pill not dissolving? there should not be white residue at the bottom. Try to crush it more thoroughly so it dissolves entirely and I would run the course for the 14 days (two more days in your case). If at 14d he is still looking darkish, I'd wait a few days (1 week) before starting metro again. But let the professionals comment on that. I'm not too experienced with a sick fish after 14 days of metro.

That's a good idea Mando. Also try dissolving the metro in warm water and pour that into the tank.
Pat

[Hardgraf]

Yes it dissolves fine (Thai Metronidazole). The white residue is the binding agent used in the pills. Water here in Bangkok comes out of the tap at 86 so with a small heater 90 is easy

[snxtif]

Hiya,

I just re-read all the info. I'm not sure if the tank is fully cycled?
Since you mentioned the tank is 3 weeks old and you read 0.25 ammonia and very low Nitrate
If so, that might one of the reasons that fish is stressed.

[Hardgraf]

Yeah I'm sure inconsistent water parameters have been the main cause of stress. Had the ammonia & nitrite spikes so now the tank is hopefully fully cycled (6 weeks) and they are able to recover. Stupid rookie mistake, probably should have fully cycled the tank instead of being impatient.

In my experience twice daily large water changes were not enough to keep ammonia & nitrite at 0.

Today everyone is dark & shy, more white poop from the sick fish so quite frustrating

[Hardgraf]

Ok I've decided to do another 4 days of Metro ensuring 500mg/10Gallons combined with high heat (91.5) and salt 1 tablespoon/10Gallons. I will continue to feed lightly with only medicated food. I will do smaller water changes (50%) to minimise stress.

I saw a huge beautiful blue turquoise breeding pair in a local discus shop today, gave me increased determination to get my tank healthy.

[Hardgraf]

126139

Sick fish is now looking dark and very weak. He has just produced this long rubbery orange faeces. Still hex?

Worried that he will die soon

[Hardgraf]

Thank you for everyone's help. I now have a heathy tank. The sick fish has recovered fully and now devours beef heart straight from my hand

[jeep]

Congratulations!!!

[Hardgraf]

Thanks, quite stressful for me & the fish but I've learnt a lot. The difference in their behaviour & appetite is night & day. They are now not skittish, greet me at the front of the tank & beg for food every time I walk past. They are now very tame & have huge appetites.

Now to continue the big water changes, keep feeding good food & hopefully grow them out to big fat adults!