Sick from driftwood, please help urgent!

[71tanner]

I have 5 discus, 65 gallon aquarium. Recently ordered a piece of alborz wood from an online aquarium store, which I have used before. Cleaned the wood and put in tank last night. This morning they were all gasping for air at the top of the tank. I added another air stone, removed the wood and did a 75% water change. They had a turquoise rainbow fish as a tank mate but he did not survive this. He quickly got black patches, then white patches then died. This is all in less than 24 hours! Now my discus are all still, some tilting to their side with clamped fins and one of them has gotten very dark, almost black eyes. I am so worried. Anyone with any information or knowledge on something like this, I would greatly appreciate the help.

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
65 gallon running for 4 years, 5 discus, 4 cordyas

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
30% 3xweek

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
4 years, very thin layer of gravel

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime

9. Parameters and water source;
Treated Pond water

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ____84_

- ph _____7.2

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____80

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Just the alborz wood

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
3 x day. Beefheart, bloodwors, brine shrimp, pellets and beefheart flakes


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[LizStreithorst]

change 75% again and hope for the best. So sorry that this has happened to you through no fault of your own.

[discuspaul]

You did a 75% W/C, and you now have a reading of 80 ppm of nitrate - is that truly correct?
Re-check this.

It can't be, after such a large W/C. So your post of 80 ppm of nitrate is either incorrect, or you have a huge nitrate condition/level in the water you used for your W/C. This level of nitrate would seemingly be very toxic to discus.
You said you were doing 30% W/C 3 X a week - did you do such a wc the day before adding the wood ?

[71tanner]

You did a 75% W/C, and you now have a reading of 80 ppm of nitrate - is that truly correct?
Re-check this.

It can't be, after such a large W/C. So your post of 80 ppm of nitrate is either incorrect, or you have a huge nitrate condition/level in the water you used for your W/C. This level of nitrate would seemingly be very toxic to discus.
It was 80 before the water change

[71tanner]

I intend to do another large water change first thing in the morning. Didn't think I should do it again today. though I am fearful of what I am going to find in the morning.

[dspeers]

Am curious, any recent measured pre WC nitrate levels prior to intro of driftwood? Also check your nitrate prior to today's WC and if still very high, check your WC source for nitrates. Possible nitrate contamination of pond source? Driftwood might be temporal coincidence....What is your highest color on your nitrate test, are you possibly at 80+? Could explain the anoxic symptoms you encountered.

[dspeers]

Also with Nitrates at 80 or somewhere north of that value I would recommend starting with a 20% change and then 10% water changes hourly x 8-10 hours till you are <= 10 rather than a 75% change which would drop your nitrates from 80 to 20 (or from whatever level by 75%) almost immediately which has its own negative effects. This assumes your source for WC is nitrate free, it might in fact be the cause of the problem. Also if you have more air stones, use them. Finally you might want to be a little sceptical of your nitrate test and correlate with another brand tester. I personally prefer Hanna over other more popular tests as I can differentiate the scale a little better and I like their reputation.

[fljones3]

I might have missed it but if you have Prime to neutralize the nitrate load. I would use 3-4x dose. Might also consider salt at 1 tsp per 10 gal.

[71tanner]

I should have mentioned earlier I have always had a nitrate problem with this tank. They have been 60-80 ppm for as long as I can remember. I know that is high, and I have tried literally everything to lower them with no luck. My water tests 0, my second tank tests 20ppm so I feel the test kit is correct. My terrible nitrate issue is another issue for another day. All that said, I am confident this problem was caused by the alborz wood. Everyone is still alive this morning but most aren't interested in eating. I am about to do another water change and clean the canister and sponge filters now.

[71tanner]

Yes I use prime. I will up it with this next water change

[Sturiosoma]

Also with Nitrates at 80 or somewhere north of that value I would recommend starting with a 20% change and then 10% water changes hourly x 8-10 hours till you are <= 10 rather than a 75% change which would drop your nitrates from 80 to 20 (or from whatever level by 75%) almost immediately which has its own negative effects. This assumes your source for WC is nitrate free, it might in fact be the cause of the problem. Also if you have more air stones, use them. Finally you might want to be a little sceptical of your nitrate test and correlate with another brand tester. I personally prefer Hanna over other more popular tests as I can differentiate the scale a little better and I like their reputation.

Jeanne

I would like to thank you for being though in defining the effects of large water changes in that you can improve some parameters that being amonia and nitrite those being the most toxic but you can also swing your ph and nitrates causing harm

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Tanner, I noticed on your first post the source for your water changes is "Treated Pond Water". Could you describe this a bit more?
Pat

[71tanner]

Hi Tanner, I noticed on your first post the source for your water changes is "Treated Pond Water". Could you describe this a bit more?
Pat

I live in a rural area. Our source of water comes from a pond with a natural spring. Didn't want a well. The water goes through two large treatment tanks, then to our house. It's like we have our own water treatment plant here!

[Second Hand Pat]

Are the nitrates high in the treated water Tanner?
Pat

[71tanner]

Nitrates are 0 in the water

[pastry]

How did you clean the wood? I usually let any new Driftwood I get soak in our guest bathroom tub after blasting it off 1st in the yard with the garden hose. Then once in the bathtub, I turn the faucet on as hot as it can get. Then I let it sit there for about a week.

I'm not familiar with that type of wood but just guessing that if someone regularly sells it then usually it's fine. That's said, doesn't mean that possibly some sort of chemicals accidentally came in contact with that piece of wood. That is just extremely fast for anything natural out of a piece of wood to affect fish. Even wood that has sap in it, only slowly leaks out. It would take a while. So either it is a coincidence and something else calls the problem with your fish or the wood they have been contaminated by a chemical is my guess. I know some might say it's probably just a coincidence better happen soon after you put the Driftwood in but my gut tells me it's the Driftwood but it's not something that naturally came out of the Driftwood.

That REALLY SUCKS and hopefully you can salvage the fish. However, worst case scenario, Christmas is coming up!

[discuspaul]

I'm still confused by what 71 tanner has said in various posts - in one he clearly says he has had a nitrate problem for quite some time, and that the nitrate in this tank regularly tests out at between 60 and 80 ppm. But in response to Pat's recent question above, he says his water test for nitrates was zero - this is completely contradictory - do you have 2 sources of water, 71tanner ?

As for the wood, it occurred to me there could have been the possibility that the particular piece that 71 T bought from that 'pet store' had previously been used in a display cage (say, a tank) for housing another animal, such as a reptile (and therefore exposed to toxic contamination seeping into the wood from urine or feces - whatever- and then, upon sale of that animal, perhaps that particular piece of wood was accidentally placed back into the store's box containing other aquarium driftwood for sale, and that's the piece that 71 T actually bought ? This may seem farfetched, but these kinds of things do happen on occasion.
This wood was soon taken out of the tank, but the damage had already been done if this was the case.
Just a thought as to this possibility.

[71tanner]

The 0 nitrate reading was in regard to the water coming out of my tap, not the tank. FYI, I am a she, not a "he". I am convinced that wood had some kind of contamination. All 5 discus did finally eat tonight. Smaller amount and not as ferociously as usual but I'll take it. Also, this wood came from a well known online aquatic plant store. I have emailed them but have not received any response. Without knowing what was wrong with that wood I guess it's just a water changes waiting game. Very upsetting, I really love these crazy fish!

[71tanner]

I normally scrub the wood clean then soak to release tannins. This particular wood doesn't float and supposedly releases very little tannins, so I scrubbed it and let it soak for the day thinking it would be good. This is a substantial chunk of wood so who knows what could have gotten into it. Although unfamiliar with alborz wood as well I made the mistake of trusting the seller. Going forward I am done with wood. Horrible lesson learned.

[pastry]

Tanner, I hate seeing that you had a bad experience with the Driftwood. I always get excited to see other aquariums with Driftwood in them. If you ever change your mind in the future, I swear that I've had much better luck sourcing driftwood from different ponds, lakes, and even the Ocean by me. That way I generally know what the heck it is. But for the time being, even a rock Hardscape looks good too if you still want to go with some sort of Aquascape. Not trying to joke at all but if you go to the Rock route then read up on which rocks to use! I've screwed that one up before as well. I've screwed up with different Driftwood and rock but that's the only way I learn... the hard way! But I've also gotten lucky as heck and it's really cool when different things you grab from nature nearby works out really well.

[discuspaul]

The 0 nitrate reading was in regard to the water coming out of my tap, not the tank. FYI, I am a she, not a "he". I am convinced that wood had some kind of contamination. All 5 discus did finally eat tonight. Smaller amount and not as ferociously as usual but I'll take it. Also, this wood came from a well known online aquatic plant store. I have emailed them but have not received any response. Without knowing what was wrong with that wood I guess it's just a water changes waiting game. Very upsetting, I really love these crazy fish!

Apologies - now that I know you're female, I'll certainly refer to you that way.

With wc's continuing to be done with water right out of your tap (wth '0' nitrates), your situation should continue to improve - we all hope that's the way it turns out. Best of luck to you.

[planter]

I'm always weary of adding wood to my tanks. I hope your troubles are behind you.

[71tanner]

So everyone is looking much better, acting better and ate well tonight. Hopefully everyone has made it through this. As for the vendor that sold me the alborz wood, still haven't gotten any response. That in and of itself is telling to me.

[Mando]

So everyone is looking much better, acting better and ate well tonight. Hopefully everyone has made it through this. As for the vendor that sold me the alborz wood, still haven't gotten any response. That in and of itself is telling to me.

I've bleached dipped my wood and soaked in clean water for a few days and then let dry out in the sun for a week before I put it in the tank. Glad your discus are doing better.

[Sturiosoma]

How did you clean the wood? I usually let any new Driftwood I get soak in our guest bathroom tub after blasting it off 1st in the yard with the garden hose. Then once in the bathtub, I turn the faucet on as hot as it can get. Then I let it sit there for about a week.

I'm not familiar with that type of wood but just guessing that if someone regularly sells it then usually it's fine. That's said, doesn't mean that possibly some sort of chemicals accidentally came in contact with that piece of wood. That is just extremely fast for anything natural out of a piece of wood to affect fish. Even wood that has sap in it, only slowly leaks out. It would take a while. So either it is a coincidence and something else calls the problem with your fish or the wood they have been contaminated by a chemical is my guess. I know some might say it's probably just a coincidence better happen soon after you put the Driftwood in but my gut tells me it's the Driftwood but it's not something that naturally came out of the Driftwood.

That REALLY SUCKS and hopefully you can salvage the fish. However, worst case scenario, Christmas is coming up!

Trying to find the humor here Elliot what do the guests do while you're soaking the driftwood

Jeanne

[pastry]

Jeanne, they either look at me funny... or just point and laugh :antlers:

[bluelagoon]

I might have missed it but if you have Prime to neutralize the nitrate load. I would use 3-4x dose. Might also consider salt at 1 tsp per 10 gal.

This is a read on Seachem Prime. says it does nothing to neutralize nitrite or nitrate.https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/7ngexz/seachem_prime_does_not_detoxify_nitritenitrate/

[planter]

This is a read on Seachem Prime. says it does nothing to neutralize nitrite or nitrate.https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/comments/7ngexz/seachem_prime_does_not_detoxify_nitritenitrate/

Just buy this you will never buy another water conditioner

https://www.seachem.com/safe.php

[bluelagoon]

Just buy this you will never buy another water conditioner

https://www.seachem.com/safe.php

That will only detoxify nitrite and nitrate for 24- 48 hours; that's how long the bond lasts. The filter will take care of the ammonia and nitrite before the bond is broken. You can detoxify nitrite poisoning much longer with sodium chloride (salt). The nitrate will need manual removal. That's how I'm reading Seachem report. I've never I used neither conditioner. I just use cheap sodium thiosulfate for chlorine. Prime and Safe are the same conditioner. Prime is liquid and Safe is powder.

[bluelagoon]

Is that the reason your nitrates are 80.

[bluelagoon]

Just for those who are on Chloramine. When the ammonia part is breaking down the cycle (BB) kicks in and the end product is nitrate. So, that will increases along with fish waste; more, so than if is was just chlorine.

[pastry]

Mervin is spot on. Too add onto Seachem Prime & Safe, buy the Safe because it's ridiculous how little of it you use each WC as compared to Prime (liquid form). 8 oz. of Safe (powder form) lasts me for 8 months (and I heavy pour it... no harm over dosing)... 8 oz Prime won't last me 2 WEEKS!

You'll find Prime in stores because stores make MUCH more since you must purchase often. Go online for Seachem Prime. I found that secret here from other people on SD. Huge $$$ saver

[71tanner]

I never seen a question? Is what the reason my nitrates were high?

[bluelagoon]

Best to change greater amounts of aged water. Every WC you are leaving 70% of dirty, depleted water behind. With time your have a bluild up of something and a lack of with something else. You feeding BF which does not much for water quality. When your nitrates are 10 or below your making progress.