FIRST AID KIT for common or deadly discus maladies

[Tefloncat]

As a pharmacist I have some doctors that are “boutique” providers (the patient pays ca$h for exclusive rights to a physician pretty much any time. They are each month given a box which contains sufficient meds for humans which would assist or cure disease states. The box would contain steroids, antibiotics, anti inflammatory, etc. I purpose a sticky be made with a check list for discus owners so when they have an emergency on the holiday and no one is open they have something.
FORMAT
DRUG NAME.
COVERAGE
DOSE
DURATION
KEEP OR REMOVE LEAVE filter, carbon, Purigen, etc.
CONTRAINDICATIONS
INFECTED FISH MAY OR MAY NOT REMAIN IN COMMUNITY TANK DURING TREATMENT

THERE IS in merely in idea form but I think would be great use to community at large

I’m absolutely NO computer guru in setting up forms or stickies in a forum!
What do you all think?

[jeep]

I like this idea!

[Second Hand Pat]

I do also.
Pat

[coralbandit]

I like the idea ..I am interested to see what I may be missing ?
I have a small arsenal of fish drugs/treatments on hand .

[LizStreithorst]

There are things that can't be cured and things that cannot. I will do my best to speak to each. I just need to get what I know together and find the best words. I can do this. I have been through it all.

[Tefloncat]

I would think it would have an algorithm of some sort based on MOST common disease state followed by a treatment format. After basic controllable FIRST AID is attempted (x% wc, or turn temp to y°, turn lights off for x day, etc)*.
* I didn’t even touch salt, there are as many suggestions of doses as there are salt bodies of water on Earth!
The med box would contain meds that ideally could cover more than 1 disease state and a sufficient day supply to cover 1 treatments worth (just remember to replace used item).
I think there are MANY aquarist who would gladly pay for a ichthyologic medication 1st aid kit. The pics especially would help as a pic is worth a 1,000 words

[bill6148]

Maybe I'm a bit slow but I have no idea what you're talking about. Do you mean assembling a list of diseases and treatment or purchasing the actual products for a "just in case" situation? If the latter then take into account the medication going out of date, incorrect storage...ect, making the medication useless or weak at best. Please clearify, and for the love of all things holy, check your spelling and grammer, sometimes it's almost impossible to understand what point the posters are tying to make.

[bluelagoon]

There are already stickers in the medicine cabinet on this forum about meds and what and how to use them. There are only a few meds that you need on hand at any time.

[dspeers]

As a physician I also see the utility of this. I liken it to an ER crash cart. Certain medications are so critical that you don't want to wait even minutes to acquire for administration. In addition management protocols for either medical or traumatic emergencies are on hand. The number of medications are limited in part due to the issue of expiration.

For the less experienced brethren, including myself, a document with the most common urgent diseases including pictures (limited to conditions that do not afford sufficient time to obtain treatment online), suggested medication protocols: dose, duration, technique (dip vs HT isolation vs display tank treatment) & alternatives, as well as a suggested on hand formulary would be a great. Whether someone would be willing to do this is another question. Also given the information already available I am unsure how much this would add. I need to more fully review what is already available in order to answer that last question.

[Tefloncat]

My point was to put all this type of knowledge in one readily accessible site on he forum. As opposed to either hunting down questionable information or otherwise irritating some one from the forum. I truly believe that when it comes to knowledge concerning discus, their diseases and treatment that if the majority of the people agree to the same treatment then that should be 1st line therapy. I know I might step on some toes, but, while outlying treatments may work, or may have worked in the past, let’s keep it up to date

[bluelagoon]

I keep furan2 on hand. If you ever come across Columnaris, this can't wait and should be treated right away. It only takes a matter of hours to a few days to kill fish. It would be one of those crash cart meds like mentioned.

[coralbandit]

I have a few things [ maybe more then a few ?] but most important and often my go to for everything is Potassium permanganate ..
Many have always said the best med is clean water so I figure the next best med must one that can be used in good times also without any negative effects and an actual gain ..
PP for the win !

[gimaal]

I have a few things [ maybe more then a few ?] but most important and often my go to for everything is Potassium permanganate ..
Many have always said the best med is clean water so I figure the next best med must one that can be used in good times also without any negative effects and an actual gain ..
PP for the win !

PP is my 'go to' as well, along with-- as you say-- clean water.

[Tefloncat]

I imagine a classic image of the disease state, 1st and 2nd drugs of choice, duration, toxicity. Dose and specials conditions for EACH KNOWN disease state.

[dspeers]

I keep furan2 on hand. If you ever come across Columnaris, this can't wait and should be treated right away. It only takes a matter of hours to a few days to kill fish. It would be one of those crash cart meds like mentioned.

I am curious, do you use according to instructions. I ask because the directions for Furan 2 from API is substantially different in terms of duration than those of BiFuran from Hikari. I also find the attitude that they do not need to list the actual mg dosage on the MSDS dangerously cavalier. Plus, most of what you are buying is salt, not antibiotics.

[bluelagoon]

Yes, make sure it's always pure and no fillers. I always use pure stuff. It will say 100% pure Nitrofurazone. I bought mine from anglesplus.com. The API is not pure. I haven't seen Bifuran which is two ingedients in a while. That's where the name Furan 2 originated. However they don't put Furazolidone in it any more and just use the one ingedient but kept the name Furan2. Kanamycin is used more these days with Nitrofurazone.

[captainandy]

Not a bad idea for fish. If you end up killing the fish its sad but not illegal.
Any doctor providing a just in case packet for patients is committing a crime and the pharmacist, if aware and not reporting it to the state, is complicit.

[dspeers]

Not a bad idea for fish. If you end up killing the fish its sad but not illegal.
Any doctor providing a just in case packet for patients is committing a crime and the pharmacist, if aware and not reporting it to the state, is complicit.

Ethically suspect but per se illegal? Why?

Mervin, thanks much for the info.

[danotaylor]

Don I am not fully versed in the laws here in the US as my health education was in Australia, but it's because for human treatment the antibiotic drugs used are "prescription only" drugs. It is the MD's responsibility to make sure that prescription meds are given for the right ailment, at the right dose, by the right route, with the right time frame, for the right patient, etc. The pharmacist is a secondary check during the dispensing process. If prescription meds were given to humans for "just in case" scenarios and the wrong drug, dose etc was taken causing harm or death, then the MD prescribing would ultimately be deemed at fault by law.
I hope the US doesn't go the same route as Canada with restricting access to meds we can readily get and use as we play MD for our fishes...

[Tefloncat]

As an FYI, providers supplying a just in case box to pats is NOT illegal, the pt is informed which med to take by the provider. Think travel medication, ie if you go to altitude then use Diamox per directions, if you get travelers diarrhea you take Cipro per directions supplied, etc.

[bluelagoon]

My dortor prescribes drugs PRN (use as needed) meds for me. Sometimes I use them, sometimes I don't. The order is good for a year. Will even order me PRN antibiotics in case I get pneumonia.

[dspeers]

In a way everyone is correct, with the caveat that in the US most physician misbehavior including this is covered under medical malpractice rather than criminal law. PRN drugs can be used with select patients but to a large degree is frowned upon as patients will on occasion use sources other than the prescribing provider to decide who, what, when, how much and how long to take said PRN meds. I very rarely (as in almost never) wrote prn medications and only with patients I was SURE would follow my instructions for use, and always ended my counseling with the precaution of "NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use this on anyone for anything other than exactly what we discussed unless you clear it with me first."

My experience as a young physician did influence my attitude and subsequent behavior, gave a patient on a friday a prn antibiotic for possible strep throat awaiting culture results (30 years ago we did not have an immediate test for this). Patient was part of a unit doing week long mountain training starting that weekend, and I had means to contact the unit medic on Monday with results. Unfortunately, another member of his unit was even sicker with a sore throat, and in a burst of brilliance after hours that Friday, the two of them decided it must be strep and he gave 1/2 of his Rx to his friend, even though he was not actually taking his half. His friend was allergic to penicillin but neither recognized that amoxicillin was a risk. To this day I don't get how, these were both highly trained, intelligent and skilled special ops soldiers. Luckily the second soldier was able to get immediate appropriate medical care for his full blown anaphylaxis, and didn't die. Regardless, it was my fault. I picked the wrong patient and did not appropriately counsel him. Would this have been malpractice had the second individual died, probably. Not illegal, but certainly a breech of medical standards.

[Tefloncat]

I found this online as a starting point. https://www.aqueon.com/articles/aquarium-disease-prevention I was thinking if anyone can supplies pics with classic signs of disease states it would help. Then we could add 1st line therapy for the disease state. We could then start a list of drugs to have on hand for the most common disease states