Finally starting to learn to watch Rams

[LizStreithorst]

I was a total ignorant newbie to Rams when I bought my two pairs. I didn't know their little fishy ways like I do with Discus. This last time when my dominant pair spawned I thought they were acting frisky before they spawned. Just last night and this morning I saw the other pair acting the same way so I poured some fluvic acid (or is it humic acid?) in their tank. Sure enough I went down to do WC and boom, I caught them in the act!

Let's hope I keep doing better with these little guys. They are such beautiful and interesting little fish.

[Mugwump]

Are using the fluvic acid to get a more 'natural' water in the tank?....what's your dosage?..please

[LizStreithorst]

If it does the same as Roobios tea does in my water it will allow the egg shells to be soft enough to hatch. Since both Discus and Rams (and Angels for that matter) come from the same water parameters it sould work. I don't want to mess with RO anymore.

[danotaylor]

Good one Liz!!

[coralbandit]

I have used humic acid before but never really came up with a standard dose .
The stuff I got from a hydroponics shop is pretty strong .
It will work out for you ..They're learning too.

[LizStreithorst]

I pour it in until I feel it's at the right color. I'm ashamed to admit that I dose PP that way.

[LizStreithorst]

They were done spawning by the time I went back down after telling everyone about it. The female was flat bellied and away from the eggs. Dad was hovering over the eggs, fanning away. I figured they needed a break after so much excitement so I didn't do a water change on their tank today.

[coralbandit]

I pour it in until I feel it's at the right color. I'm ashamed to admit that I dose PP that way.

We all play DR. eventually ! Few want to admit it ..
I do know how to dose my PP but a light violet is the target so ?
They don't need the water change unless you think the tank could foul.
I tend to feed heavy so sometimes I am changing water when I shouldn't ..

[LizStreithorst]

I'd say dark pink to light violet. I use the pinky dose when I'm cleaning up fish for breeding even though I don't see an signs of a problem.

[LizStreithorst]

I had a good feeling about this spawn. The eggs were still there this morning and I liked the way they looked. This afternoon it looked like they were close to hatching. But the parents always see the first wiggles before I do. By WC time the evening the eggs were gone. Judging by the demeanor or the parents I believe they have moved the kids to the other side of the tank. Stay tuned for an up-date in the morning.

[coralbandit]

Sooo, do we think the eggs are still in the tank ?
They would be wigglers now I would think ..

[Second Hand Pat]

I had a good feeling about this spawn. The eggs were still there this morning and I liked the way they looked. This afternoon it looked like they were close to hatching. But the parents always see the first wiggles before I do. By WC time the evening the eggs were gone. Judging by the demeanor or the parents I believe they have moved the kids to the other side of the tank. Stay tuned for an up-date in the morning.

Very cool Liz, I hope you are right :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

No, "we" think that they were eaten. But I know...I'll keep watching.

[Discluv]

Liz, what brand of Roobios tea do you use?-- I am overwhelmed with the variety on Amazon.
Do you use an organic variety?

[LizStreithorst]

No guarantees that it will do for you in your water what it does for me with mine, but I use this. https://www.amazon.com/Davidsons-Tea-Organic-African-16-Ounce/dp/B000SATIE6/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=rooibos+tea&qid=1579038669&sr=8-8

[Discluv]

No guarantees that it will do for you in your water what it does for me with mine, but I use this. https://www.amazon.com/Davidsons-Tea-Organic-African-16-Ounce/dp/B000SATIE6/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=rooibos+tea&qid=1579038669&sr=8-8

Excellent, thanks Liz. No guarantees necessary- :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, I have a small advantage on the ram watching. There are still 10 rams in the 50 gallon which started all this. There is constant flirting among the four pairs plus territorial skirmishes. The tank is simply a beehive of activity but such a fun tank.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

That's true. You also bought rams that were raised by their parents from a guy whose every post shows his passion. Yours come from parent raised stock. That might be the other difference between our closeness to success. (Of course DiscusLuv has made it farther than either of us!) Mine came from a guy who has excellent taste in fish, but doesn't radiate the same passion as Tom. He's a good breeder,I think that my guy depends on fish to make part of his living. Besides, Tom is here and loves helping us succeed.

I know that this is not in anyway a competition. Who ever succeeds in raising these little guys first will be ready rooting for the others, and all of the ones still trying will be happy for the one who succeeds first. I still think that it's fun that there are 4 enough trying for the same thing and that thing is not even Discus. How weird is that?

[LizStreithorst]

Tom, My LFS is getting a 5 gallon and a 2 1/2 gallon in. They need them for stock any way. I'm interested in both but may just get one of them. I probably will. I forgot to tell them to order a couple of dip and pours for me. That is not something that they would keep in stock. If I am going to try artificially raising is their anything else I should get while I'm there next week?

[coralbandit]

I use the disposable airstones and MB and that is it ..
Terracotta trays ..3 inches .I like mopani wood at fish stores and java wood at bird places ..The java wood is a South American coffee tree.

Funny on it is not a competition and everyone helps ..That is the fun..I want to see others have fry .One buddy of mine said he would just like to see fry one more time like years ago ..That was two years ago and he gets fry regularly raises some and struggles some and we laugh ..I feel like I brought him pleasure and that does make me happy ..Its the real share that cost nothing ..
On another forum [I tell Liz it is the kids forum] we have the 'discus gang' 4 ,5,6 people who all got like 3 inch disc in the beginning of the summer .
We all said it was not a competition.. I have no control ! I want to breed first ,faster ,more or better ...Usually in that order even ...
Crushing the competition can be fun too? Maybe that is the craftsman or passion just out of control but fun none the less..
I think parent raised fry may breed and raise better but that would be a real hard experiment to have any finding beyond anecdotal ..Just to many variables in the fish alone ?Over all I would say they should be better fry .

[Discluv]

As I get more knowledgeable through experience ill try the parent raised method again. I am sure it results in much stronger, healthier fry. But, the darks are too expensive for me to take a chance of "maybe he will kill her, maybe he wont".
I actually took the male out of the tank on the second day (morning) went into the 10 gallon.
Who knows-- the real test it seems is getting the fry past the first 2 weeks.

[LizStreithorst]

With Discus it's the first 3 weeks after attachment.

[LizStreithorst]

It looks like my pair ate this batch, too. Next time around, I'll be a bandit. Once I succeed at that the pair can go back into their 10 gallon and try for as long as it takes.

[Second Hand Pat]

That's true. You also bought rams that were raised by their parents from a guy whose every post shows his passion. Yours come from parent raised stock. That might be the other difference between our closeness to success. (Of course DiscusLuv has made it farther than either of us!) Mine came from a guy who has excellent taste in fish, but doesn't radiate the same passion as Tom. He's a good breeder,I think that my guy depends on fish to make part of his living. Besides, Tom is here and loves helping us succeed.

I know that this is not in anyway a competition. Who ever succeeds in raising these little guys first will be ready rooting for the others, and all of the ones still trying will be happy for the one who succeeds first. I still think that it's fun that there are 4 enough trying for the same thing and that thing is not even Discus. How weird is that?

Liz, I am not sure in my rams were parent raised or not. I will need to ask Mike T.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

Oh, I thought you got yours from Tom.

[RogueDiscus]

And I don't think Tom parent raises?

[LizStreithorst]

I guess I'm mistaken about a lot of things.

[Second Hand Pat]

If I recall correctly Tom pulls the first spawn of a new pair and lets them try on the second spawn.
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

That's what I thought, too. That's why he's the bandit.

[RogueDiscus]

Sorry :) I stand corrected.

[coralbandit]

I have a lot of parent raising this year . Not sure how it all falls into place .
3 years ago I would have said if I did not artificially hatch I would not have rams .
2 years ago I would have said I saw parents raise fry no more times then I can count on one hand .
Last year they started getting funky and tricking me . Maybe I was slacking maybe they really are sneaky fish ?
I have a hard time saying any change I make for a pair really has any effect as the pair progresses naturally and my changes may have no effect at all.
I just do the same thing all the time …
One of my 'Discus gang" people declared yesterday that I have won the breeding competition that did not exist for the disc !
Funny is I feel like saying there are only a few fry or something I hear people trying rams always say ! I am grateful to have patience and excellent role models whenever I keep fish and wherever I share and learn about them ..

Who is Mike T. Pat ?

[Second Hand Pat]

I have a lot of parent raising this year . Not sure how it all falls into place .
3 years ago I would have said if I did not artificially hatch I would not have rams .
2 years ago I would have said I saw parents raise fry no more times then I can count on one hand .
Last year they started getting funky and tricking me . Maybe I was slacking maybe they really are sneaky fish ?
I have a hard time saying any change I make for a pair really has any effect as the pair progresses naturally and my changes may have no effect at all.
I just do the same thing all the time …
One of my 'Discus gang" people declared yesterday that I have won the breeding competition that did not exist for the disc !
Funny is I feel like saying there are only a few fry or something I hear people trying rams always say ! I am grateful to have patience and excellent role models whenever I keep fish and wherever I share and learn about them ..

Who is Mike T. Pat ?

Tom, Mike is a dear friend who is the first guy in the US to breed wild altum angels. It took him seven years to perfect both the breeding and raising of the altum fry. Truly a passionate and dedicated hobbyist.
Pat

[coralbandit]

Tom, Mike is a dear friend who is the first guy in the US to breed wild altum angels. It took him seven years to perfect both the breeding and raising of the altum fry. Truly a passionate and dedicated hobbyist.
Pat
Nice ! Ask him if he would want some darks to work on !
I do my best to put them in good breeders hands .