German or Asian ?

[coralbandit]

I know it seems almost every sponsor here is an importer of one particular type so I think I know the answer I am going to get .
I am curios if people dare say which they think is better ?
I have my own opinions and thoughts on this but wonder what everyone else thinks ..

[RogueDiscus]

Yes, I am West Coast and hooked up with Kenny's Asian imports years ago, but I do like the girth of the Stendekers I've seen online, and some of the fish in the European show posts. They seemed rounder, specifically more vertical faces, before the Asian imports started catching up.

[LizStreithorst]

I prefer the refinement of a good Asian fish. On the other hand, I like the bulk of the Germans. I have crossed the two and I got the best of both in their offspring. The hard part is sourcing top quality breeding stock. The best of anything is always the hardest to find,

[LizStreithorst]

What is your opinion, Tom? You have a good eye. Obviously you have seen that there is a difference between the two types.

[coralbandit]

I am German all the way .
If I say any more I am sure to offend .

[Second Hand Pat]

I am wild all the way mostly lol
Pat

[Willie]

A number of us favor Stendkers because his strains can grow larger and are much easier to spawn. Their breeding system relies solely on parental care, so they're indirectly selecting for good parents. I know a couple of advanced discus keepers that only grow Stendkers because they make a tidy sum selling spawns.

Asian fish often have the latest colors and patterns. Often, the patterns are more fine and more consistent across the entire body. They also have the high back trait that I personally cannot resist. In general, however, the more expensive the fish, the more difficult it was to spawn.

So the choice is not so much which kind of fish you like, but what is your objective in the hobby. I keep both.

Willie

[Johnny95132]

Hi Willie, when you say that the Stendker's "breeding system relies solely on parental care," do you mean that they don't use artificial methods to raise the young? Like they have the discus babies feed off the parent's slime coat naturally? And as always, thanks for the information. I always learn so much about discus from your posts.
To chime in, I think it's easier to obtain "select" Asian discus, mainly due to the setup of the Stendker website. Specifically, the format of Discus Hans doesn't allow one to select individual fish. As a result, you'll receive whatever the selector happened to choose during that order. Of course, this doesn't apply to customers who visit Han's fish room and hand select their own discus. You could also obtain good specimens by buying a lot in one order and hoping that a few will be great. This is why I have gravitated towards buying discus from sites that post pictures of the exact fish, or go to the fishroom myself to purchase.

[coralbandit]

Are Piwowarski discus a thing of the past for us in America ?
And yea I appreciate your input Willie !

[LizStreithorst]

I don't believe they're available here any more. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

[Willie]

Hi Willie, when you say that the Stendker's "breeding system relies solely on parental care," do you mean that they don't use artificial methods to raise the young? Like they have the discus babies feed off the parent's slime coat naturally?..

Yes, this is precisely what I mean. Many Asian breeders have switched to artificial rearing simply because it's so much more efficient, but the labor cost in Europe precludes using this approach. I'm not making a value judgement on the quality of the fry, just that breeders that are not good parents do not persist in an European breeding program.

Willie

[LizStreithorst]

That was great info. I had no idea that artificial was so prevalent in Asia. It's somewhat disheartening from a domestic breeder's perspective.

[Discluv]

Wild for me as well. Ive had Stendker's and Asian varietals through the years- now, nothing but wilds for me.

[peewee1]

I am wild all the way mostly lol
Pat

I am transitioning my collection to wild crosses. It would not make a difference to me where those fish came from. Be they German or Asian, as long as I get them from Kenny.

[Iminit]

Hi Willie, when you say that the Stendker's "breeding system relies solely on parental care," do you mean that they don't use artificial methods to raise the young? Like they have the discus babies feed off the parent's slime coat naturally? And as always, thanks for the information. I always learn so much about discus from your posts.
To chime in, I think it's easier to obtain "select" Asian discus, mainly due to the setup of the Stendker website. Specifically, the format of Discus Hans doesn't allow one to select individual fish. As a result, you'll receive whatever the selector happened to choose during that order. Of course, this doesn't apply to customers who visit Han's fish room and hand select their own discus. You could also obtain good specimens by buying a lot in one order and hoping that a few will be great. This is why I have gravitated towards buying discus from sites that post pictures of the exact fish, or go to the fishroom myself to purchase.

I do agree with this about Hans fish. I bought from him about 8 months ago 6 2” discus of different types and of the 6 only 1 was as ordered. Nice healthy fish but not what I ordered. I ordered 2 uncle sams discus and got exactly what I ordered. Now I ordered the US at 6” to match most of the Hans. The Hans discus have outgrown the US so Hans fish do grow big.
Hey coral just joined. You get my first post.

[coralbandit]

Good to see you Tom !

[Acerrato]

You already know my answer! :p

[captainandy]

Interested in finding out why it seems to be stated is fact that German fish are bigger and are easier to breed.

I have both Asians and Germans and the ones from Kenny can he have grown much faster have their breeding tubes are always down and pairs have paired off already. Both obtained at similar times and at similar sizes. Also the quality, colors and shape are more appealing to me, from the Asians.

Finally, I had been out of it for a number of years but in the early 2000 and this did only while discus.

The colors and patterns have certainly changed over the past 15 years and I wonder if man-made hybrid's have been introduced to the Rivers in Brazil.

[RogueDiscus]

The colors and patterns have certainly changed over the past 15 years and I wonder if man-made hybrid's have been introduced to the Rivers in Brazil.

I think the idea is even if they were introduced, they would pretty quickly become mutts and they would blend back in to the natural strains. The ones that were white or particularly bright would also be easier targets for predators.

[Moreetta]

Asian works best and tastes best.

[LizStreithorst]

Do you eat your culls, Moreetta? I hear that Discus are very bony.

[coralbandit]

I will go out on limb and say Hans or his staff hand feed his fish .
I have still been struggling to get my new guys eat ..They will eat what I want them to .
In this case they are going to be fed freeze black worms ,Kens grow meal and frozen blood worms .I use Boyds Vitamins.
They are reluctant to eat the cube off the glass. I will admit I am spoiled and my fish attack food like piranha .
I took a cube and held it in the tank and after the initial 5 seconds of shock the fish saw my fingers!
They swarmed my hand and ate the whole cube !
I train fish but I did not teach them that ...5 days in tank first time offered food from hand ..
Now the game is on !

[LizStreithorst]

These are the Hans fish that you bought from your LFS, right?

[coralbandit]

These are the Hans fish that you bought from your LFS, right?

Yes ..He tags me every time !
I was supposed to go to DiscusMadness but that will be another day .
He had just got in 10 sets of 2 Friday,I picked them up Saturday morning .
I picked them from his shipping ticket[invoice] from Hans ,as I have no clue what was sent ..

[LizStreithorst]

I remember, Just wanted to be sure these were the ones. If the invoice was from Hans the fish were from Hans. My Hans fish came in hungry. I've heard people say that a female spawned on the side of the bag en rout to him FedEx overnight. That said, I also know that LFS's get the poorest doers and the lesser quality. Have you seen them poop yet?

[coralbandit]

Yea everyday I cleaning their poop.
They are healthy ,far from perfect though ..
I could have waited till this all blows over but they were on store credit [from rams] so I figured what the heck !
I will be blessed if I get one pair but you know what I want !:p

[LizStreithorst]

I don't guess you have any live blackworms? They can't resist the blackworm's wiggling factor. Pat uses them and I used to, but they have become expensive. Mosquito larvae are even better and they're free but it's too early for you up there. If they're healthy and well cared for they should eat live wiggling stuff. If you are sure they are all fat and healthy do as you plan.

[coralbandit]

Only live food I have is BBS..
I am the unconventional keeper !:p

[LizStreithorst]

I understand.

[RogueDiscus]

Wow. Your hand but not the glass!. I'd bet they'll go for the glass eventually. I'm with you on the live foods.

[coralbandit]

They eat off the glass but reluctantly and therefore not as much .
I leave 2 cubes on glass and 20 minutes later they have been nibbled on but not devoured .
They ate the whole cube in 3-4 minutes from my hand !
It is the first time I tried ..I just figured Hans feeds his beefheart so they weren't hip to the worm yet ?
As soon as they attacked it dawned on me he/his staff could still have been hand feeding frozen beef heart and the fish had no clue !
No I can take 4 minutes feed them a whole cube and leave 2 on the glass and go to work knowing they will be more interested .