suspected velvet disease.

[lemont23]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I honestly think it all began when we started giving our discus frozen foods, even though the test kits with drops showed good water quality I think something was still wrong with the water.

]2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Not eating, clamped fins, darting, twitching, hiding, gold/bronze dusting, lethargy,

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Five days ago my smallest discus died. I immediately did a 90% water change, raised the temperature to 31 c (88 f) and added some aquarium salt with aloe, since that's what I have besides table salt - 1.5 tsp per ~ 40 l (10 g). I continued with changing the water-50-70%, siphoning the substrate and cleaning the aquarium every morning for these 5 days, while also adding the lost salt.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

407 l (107 g), 3 discus are 4 months, 5 clown loaches 3 months, and the other 4 are about 10 months in the tank. In total 7 discus, 5 loaches. Ranging from 2.5 inch to 6 inch, the loaches are 2-3 inch.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

1-2 times a week, 50% water change.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

about 10 months, white gravel substrate, about 1 inch deep.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I don't age the water. About 0.5 ph swing.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I don't use a conditioner.

9. Parameters and water source;

- temp _____29c (84 f before raising it to 88f)

- ph _____ 7.5-8

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____5-15

Changing with tap water.

10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Frozen blood worms or heart, flakes. 2 times a day.



During my treatment they seemed to be getting better, more active feeding, but some still have the golden dust on them and sometimes but rarely would dart, one is more lethargic then the others. Due to coronavirus almost all non food shops are closed in my city, but I ordered some medicine for velvet, icht and bacterial infections just in case and it will only be here in about 3 days (jbl punktol, oodinol , furanol). I'm not sure how much salt I should be using if at all, since I read loaches don't tolerate salt much. And If I should treat them with medicine which would be the last resort.

[jeep]

Can you show us a photo? If this is velvet I would remove the gravel (and sterilize) and raise the temp to 90f, use salt at 7TBS per 10g and treat with a copper based medication. Be very careful with the use of copper because it can be very toxic to discus.

[lemont23]

As soon as I get home from work I will post some pictures. Will that much salt be ok with loaches?

[jeep]

I don't thing loaches are overly sensitive to salt but I would reduce the salt to 3-4TBS to be on the safe side.

[lemont23]

https://imgur.com/a/r80QLPY in the last photo, this yellow discus is showing similar signs to the on who died, slow breathing, lethargic. I think this one wont last the 3 days of waiting.

[Sturiosoma]

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I honestly think it all began when we started giving our discus frozen foods, even though the test kits with drops showed good water quality I think something was still wrong with the water.

]2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Not eating, clamped fins, darting, twitching, hiding, gold/bronze dusting, lethargy,

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Five days ago my smallest discus died. I immediately did a 90% water change, raised the temperature to 31 c (88 f) and added some aquarium salt with aloe, since that's what I have besides table salt - 1.5 tsp per ~ 40 l (10 g). I continued with changing the water-50-70%, siphoning the substrate and cleaning the aquarium every morning for these 5 days, while also adding the lost salt.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

407 l (107 g), 3 discus are 4 months, 5 clown loaches 3 months, and the other 4 are about 10 months in the tank. In total 7 discus, 5 loaches. Ranging from 2.5 inch to 6 inch, the loaches are 2-3 inch.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

1-2 times a week, 50% water change.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

about 10 months, white gravel substrate, about 1 inch deep.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
I don't age the water. About 0.5 ph swing.

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I don't use a conditioner.

9. Parameters and water source;

- temp _____29c (84 f before raising it to 88f)

- ph _____ 7.5-8

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____5-15

Changing with tap water.

10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Frozen blood worms or heart, flakes. 2 times a day.



During my treatment they seemed to be getting better, more active feeding, but some still have the golden dust on them and sometimes but rarely would dart, one is more lethargic then the others. Due to coronavirus almost all non food shops are closed in my city, but I ordered some medicine for velvet, icht and bacterial infections just in case and it will only be here in about 3 days (jbl punktol, oodinol , furanol). I'm not sure how much salt I should be using if at all, since I read loaches don't tolerate salt much. And If I should treat them with medicine which would be the last resort.

In reading through your post I see your not using a conditioner, if you live in the states more than likely there are chloramines in the water which could explain the twitching, darting, I would use prime or safe if you don't mind mixing and treat for the total tank volume at each water change, and I would also check the ph of your tap water as compared to the tank ph and adjust water changes accordingly to prevent a pH swing which you could be having, hence the dark color, and I would continue the salt treatment per Brians instructions

Jeanne

[lemont23]

No, I live in eu. The ph from tap water is very similar to the tank water they have been bought from. I have tested the water several times and it never showed chlorine. I copy pasted the questionnaire you might have mistaken my discus symptoms with the ones in brackets that were copied.

[jeep]

Jeanne has a very good point. Nearly every water company in the world uses chlorine and many use chloramines. I would check with your water company, although if this issue was related to these chemicals I'd think you would have had issues from day one.

[lemont23]

Yeah my fish would have been long dead if there were, all fish shops I have been to told me that they don't use a conditioner.

[lemont23]

I slowly added the salt and now they are freaking out/darting, if I get close to the aquarium. What should i do??

[jeep]

I've never heard of this type of reaction. What kind of salt did you add and how much?

[Second Hand Pat]

I slowly added the salt and now they are freaking out/darting, if I get close to the aquarium. What should i do??

That should NOT be happening!! What kind of salt did you use? Hopefully regular table salt! Approach the tank from the side and turn off the tank lights to see if that calms them down.
Pat

[lemont23]

the lights are turned off, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tropical-SANITAL-AQUARIUM-ALOEvera-500ml/dp/B008AV9FIO this mixed 3 tbs per 10 gallon, there is still 1/3 of the solution left that Im putting in. Should I change the water?

[jeep]

I would do a water change and use regular table salt or any other pure salt with no additives. I've never heard of salt with aloe added.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would not add the rest since the fish are not responding well to it. Can you do a large water change and add regular table salt instead. I would suggest NOT using what you linked.
Pat

[lemont23]

Im doing a water change right now. And I just want to be sure so I don't do more harm to them TBS is a tablespoon-3 teaspoons

[jeep]

Try your teaspoons first then up it to tablespoons if you see nothing bad. 3TBS is a very mild amount and discus should not have any reaction at all.

The last time I used salt, I used 1 TBS per gallon and the fish showed no ill effects...

In your case, if parasites are present, we are trying to promote the slime coat...

[lemont23]

I have sea salt its as fine as regular table salt would be, this will be ok? how long should I be puring it so they adjust to it?

[jeep]

I think sea salt should be fine.

[LizStreithorst]

If you keep this treatment up for the length of time it will take for them to get better buy the cheapest salt you can find as long as it's pure Sodium Chloride.

[lemont23]

I will be doing this first thing in the morning, for now the shops are closed.

[lemont23]

https://imgur.com/a/zBx9Plo I also found pictures of the discus that died, I don't see velvet on him and now im completely lost. Whats wrong with them?

[lemont23]

I have made a video of my discus, and cut out the parts where symptoms are visible. There seems to be some white spots? In addition there's a few tiny hollow dots on some of their faces. I've done a 80% wc before filming and gave them some food a few hours later, but the 2 discus that can be seen at the very end of the video didn't eat as far as I can tell. I also couldn't see any spots one their sides, only some hollow dots on the face. The floating stuff, I can't understand where it is coming from. Every time after I've finished doing a wc and turn on the filter, it releases air together with these particles even though I have cleaned the filter about a week ago. Can someone take a look at the video and tell me how should I treat them, please, Because now I'm very confused. Thank you!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HskO-ne3kEQ

[bluelagoon]

The particles in the water are likely from the build up of sludge in the housing intake and output in the filter hose. That happens in one of my tanks with a canister filter. Seems harmless.

[coralbandit]

I would wipe down your wood before the next water change . Looks like a lot of stuff clinging to the wood ..
It looks like the discus that died was very stunted as it has large eye in proportion to body size so it may have been effected or weakened before and possibly even introduced the issue you are dealing with .
A sponge filter may actually help collect the floating debris better then the power filters ?

[lemont23]

I'm currently treating them with 250mg/10gal of metronidazole, in the video I could see a lot more symptoms than I could with my bare eyes. And I suspect hex,hole in the head disease. Cleaning the filter removed these particles.

[lemont23]

The 2 smallest discus finnaly started eating after 3 days of metro treatment, one ate some discus eggs... But this is a huge improvement. And they all seem so much more healthy!