Amanda's Discus Journey

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone - I've been posting all over the forum for the last couple of days, so I hope you guys aren't sick of me yet! I figured I'd start this thread so I can try to keep useful information and advice from you guys all in one spot.

I'll try to keep this post short and sweet.

A few months ago, I made the mistake of impulsively purchasing 3 (2.5") Discus from my LFS. The fish developed Hex approx 2 1/2 weeks into having them. They refused to eat for 10 days until they eventually passed away one by one. I worked alongside with Cary Strong - he was a tremendous help and I am grateful for his assistance during that time. He really did help me try to save them.

Fast forward- after doing much research on this forum, I had realized plenty of things that I could have done differently with that first tank. I decided to give it another go.. I set up a 125g tank for the Discus that I would be ordering from Hans. After the tank was cycled and ready, I ordered 15, 4" Discus. These fish are absolutely stunning. They've been here since Thursday 2/19. They are eating beef heart for breakfast at 8am, then around 12pm they get frozen bloodworms, 2pm they get Blackworm flakes and then between 6-7pm they're eating beef heart again.

Here are my tank parameters:
Temp: 86F
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 5-10ppm
GH: 5
KH: 1-2
(GH/KH is identical from the water in my tap vs. the water in my tank)

This is my first time trying to understand GH/KH... Some have told me that my GH/KH is fine and others told me that I should add crushed coral to my filter (thoughts?)..

Water Changes: Currently 30%-40% daily... Some have suggested 75% daily (thoughts?)..

I currently have white fuzzies growing on the inside glass - I've been turning my filters off during feeding and wiping the glass daily.

Filtration: 2 Tidal 110's, 3 sponge filters
Heaters: 2 Eheim 300w's with Bulk Reef Supply Heater control
Lights: 2 Fluval Aquasky's - 48"L each
Airpump: Top Fin 4 line output (I know, I know - I'm not a fan of this brand either).... - Originally was going to be a CoralLife SL-65 but the pump is just SO LOUD! So I'm returning it for a CoralLife UV sterilizer instead

Substrate: Thin layer of very fine gravel (the bag said sand but it's definitely a bit larger than sand)... I originally was going to do BB painted. I forgot to paint the bottom glass before I put the tank on its stand and filled it. I figured to cover up the mirroring on the bottom (I didn't know if this would stress the fish), that the best choice for the time being would be a thin layer of sand/gravel.

In 2 weeks, I will be treating the fish with Levamisole..... (as recommended by Cary)


THANK YOU ALL FOR READING!! Any input or helpful suggestions are greatly appreciated! :o:)

Here are some pics of the Fabulous 15! (My nickname for them).. :p
Please note: Heaters have been switched to Horizontal since the full tank photo was taken!

-Amanda
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[RogueDiscus]

Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve

[14Discus]

Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve

+1. Nice tank and fish.

[Acerrato]

Thank you Steve! I originally did think it was 4 - I retested and concluded that it is in fact between 1-2. I was confused because the test said that I'd have my KH when the test went from blue to yellow. The test never showed blue (not even from the 1st drop into the vile).. 1st drop kept the water a clearish color, 2nd drop made it a clearish/yellow.. 3rd drop made it more of a solid yellow.. But the fact that it never went from blue to yellow (only clear to yellow), has me suspecting that it's closer to 1-2.

[Acerrato]

+1. Nice tank and fish.


Thank you Bill!

[Acerrato]

Any risk in adding too much coral at once? I've filled a large mesh media bag with it, rinsed it and am ready to add it to my basket.. Just wanted to make sure it doesn't have to be added gradually. Thanks in advance!


Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve

[RogueDiscus]

I've never had to use it so hopefully someone else with experience will reply.

[Acerrato]

Thank you! I'll hold off on adding it for now... It is ready to go though.


I've never had to use it so hopefully someone else with experience will reply.

[Sturiosoma]

Hello Amanda and welcome, reading your post here about KH and I'm assuming you're using api test kit instructions seem a little confusing while it does say you should go from blue to yellow step 5 states that KH is determined by number of drops to turn test water bright yellow, I would try and clarify that maybe in speaking with api before I added coral, and as far as water changes go the more water you change at any one given time the more chance you have of upsetting your ph so I would check your water to see if you have ph swings and I would also check my tank ph against my water change source at every water change just to avoid any ph problems

Jeanne

[Acerrato]

Thank you Jeanne - YES!! The instructions are so confusing!! In one part it says wait until it turns from blue to yellow... and then in another section it says "bright yellow"... So I've been trying to look at youtube videos to see what others' test tubes look like... I'll keep testing/comparing and report back in a couple of days on that.

[RogueDiscus]

I'm suspecting that given your low pH, there is very little KH buffer in your water, which might mean the test reagent never gets to turn blue. This would make it all the more important to monitor your pH to be sure is doesn't start dropping rapidly, known as "crashing."

[14Discus]

I can only speak for my situation as my PH is at 7.8 or so. My crushed coral is in a med/sm bag in the sump. My PH of both tank and aging barrel are the same. I want to keep my PH the same w a stable KH, so I put crushed coral in the sump so as the water in the tank slowly acidifies, the crushed coral is there to act on any increased acids. This happens very slowly and it’s my understanding that the coral will only leach out/buffer water w more acid. Your water being 6.8 is on the low side, so adding coral may increase both your PH and KH. Your situation is unique in that your water is on the acidic side to begin with. Honestly, I’m not sure how exactly how you should proceed. My “guess” is that putting a bag in your tank sump/filter would be ok as the crushed coral would be ‘busy’ trying to deal w the acids very slowly and, in so doing, would....more or less.....keep your tank water from becoming more acid. If you do frequent WCs, the coral would never really have time to alter the PH/KH that much. The crushed coral in the sump/filter is available to provide KH factors as needed. The people I’ve called to discuss this with real well with is Seachem support. They’ll have products to sell that increase KH, but you can learn from them and apply their knowledge imparted to your PH/KH situation. I don’t feel bad about doing this bc I do regularly purchase their Matrix, De-Nitrator, Stability, Paraguard, Prime, Trace products...among others. Perhaps others will chime in and give you a better direction. Again....in my particular situation, the crushed coral does exactly what I need bc my PH is high enough that the crushed coral really gets going only if my tank water heads in the acidic direction. At 7.8, the coral is there more as a fallback where yours might be more of a changer.

[seanyuki]

I add about 14 oz of crushed corals in a mesh bag and insert it into the Aquaclear 110 HOB filter to stabilize the Ph.

[Acerrato]

Just tested everything again - so we'll say 18-19 hours after the 1st test.

Tank Results: 5 GH, 2-3KH (The result is definitely a 2/3 - it turned from blue to yellow today!!) - I normally do my water changes in the mornings - I haven't done mine yet today - I'm going to do it shortly. pH 6.8-7.0

Tap Results: 5GH, 2-3KH

The reason I'm writing 2-3 is because it went from blue, to a soft greenish/yellow, to a solid yellow... So It's somewhere between 2-3... Or just a 3.

[RogueDiscus]

Good. Glad the test was clearer today. Given the change began at 2, I would be inclined to use that as the value, since we're thinking it's on the low side anyway, and that you're planning to add coral.

[Acerrato]

Great - I'm thinking I had really bad lighting last night as I was testing so the "blue" color looked clear to me. I'm going to do my WC now... I'll retest everything same time tomorrow!


Good. Glad the test was clearer today. Given the change began at 2, I would be inclined to use that as the value, since we're thinking it's on the low side anyway, and that you're planning to add coral.

[14Discus]

I add about 14 oz of crushed corals in a mesh bag and insert it into the Aquaclear 110 HOB filter to stabilize the Ph.


Yes.....now that you’ve redone testing and have some KH.....do as seanyuki suggests.

[Acerrato]

Thank you - so I guess my next question is - how much of a water change should actually be done daily? If I do too large of a change, the coral won't have time to work. I've been doing 30% WC's daily as suggested by Cary. Is this a good % to stick with? I check my parameters every morning before my WC and my ammonia & nitrite are always at 0. Nitrates have ranged from 5-20ppm but usually average 10ppm.


Yes.....now that you’ve redone testing and have some KH.....do as seanyuki suggests.

[14Discus]

Go ahead w 30% WCs since u have some KH.....all should be fine. Just check your aged water so it’s similar to what’s in the tank. The crushed coral will just be there to add buffering keeping your PH stable. My earlier concerns were centered around your having 0 KH. You said u retested and had some, so you’re ok.

[Acerrato]

Thank you so much!


Go ahead w 30% WCs since u have some KH.....all should be fine. Just check your aged water so it’s similar to what’s in the tank. The crushed coral will just be there to add buffering keeping your PH stable. My earlier concerns were centered around your having 0 KH. You said u retested and had some, so you’re ok.

[Willie]

Amanda;

I suggest you focus on water changes and do not worry about pH or KH. I've seen discus raised successfully under a variety of conditions. The common thread with all of them was large water changes. At one point, the water pipe in front of my house was replaced and the chemical treatment they used to seal the pipes killed off most of my fishroom. I switched to pure R/O for four years and the fish grew fine and spawned regularly. My friend up the road has rusty water coming out of his well system. His discus grew spectacularly with daily 100% water changes.

I'm sure there's a perfect pH and a perfect KH, but fresh, clean water will account for the overwhelming amount of growth in your fish. The energy spent on tweaking water chemistry will produce far less satisfying results than just making water changes.

Good luck, Willie

[seanyuki]

Preferably do a water change (80%)one hour after feeding them the beef heart and siphon the leftover foods.Beef heart easily foul up the water.I use water pump to drain the water.127192

[Acerrato]

I have a pump like this one too! I usually do my water change about an hour after their breakfast (9am or so)... I'm definitely missing some of the BH though during my vacuum.. I'm finding it later on in little nooks in the tank. I'm going to be switching them to BH once per day (instead of twice), because cleaning it is a real challenge and I'd rather be safe than sorry.


Preferably do a water change (80%)one hour after feeding them the beef heart and siphon the leftover foods.Beef heart easily foul up the water.I use water pump to drain the water.127192

[Acerrato]

Day 7 of having the fish.... Husband is starting to love them... I walked downstairs and all I see is him walking by the tank and saying "Hi Guys, you love me, don't you?".. because they're following him around waiting to be fed breakfast... HAHAHA

[Acerrato]

Does anyone know what would cause my Discus to rapidly shake their caudal fin/ventral fin? I've noticed this behavior from a couple of the fish... They'll swim while twitching/flicking/shaking their tail or fin as if they're trying to get something off of them and then they stop and are totally fine... Has only happened a few times... I have found a couple of little white dots on my White Leopard's tail fins but I honestly don't think it's ick.... I'm going to try to snap a picture..

These are my white leopards.. and now I'm noticing one of them looks a little darker than the other? These are the only fish with the small white dots.
Also important to note - that the white Leopard's are not the fish that I see twitching... Could the twitching be a territorial thing?

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[Acerrato]

Okay so something odd happened... They were all fine and then next thing you know, they're all huddled near the driftwood... a few of them start challenging each other (nipping, chasing)... one of my German Wonders turned dark brown and hid... I put food in the tank a few minutes later and everyone is back to normal and eating... Water parameters are fine...

Does the "twitching/vibrating/Shimmying" sound like it could be from challenging/territory disputes?

[14Discus]

The twitching could very well be social/territorial or even mating rituals. Do they ever rub their bodies against your driftwood or make quick darting/flashing against anything?

Do look over very carefully the fish w white spots and others as spots on the body are harder to see. Now.....if these were my fish and I saw .....any......more of those white dots or those same fish even had just one more dot, I would tend to think it is Ich. The reason why I’d be rather concerned and very observant is bc, if it is Ich, treating it early is of paramount importance imho. Just out of curiosity......is your WC water temp exactly the same as your tank water temperature and have you introduced anything else to your tank like plants, snails, dither fish, or even Discus? Btw.....if it is Ich....you’ll have treat the entire tank and just remove the one or two fish w white spots. For every spot you see on the fish means there is likely 10-100x the number of free swimming younger forms of Ich you cannot see in the tank/gravel. Hopefully some others will chime in, but my gut tells me you do have the early signs of Ich....based mostly on the first of your three pics.....and I do wish I was wrong. Stay on top of this though and don’t fret, as Ich is indeed treatable and reading about the Ich lifecycle will greatly help you understand how to attack it.....and with what.

[Acerrato]

Bill - thank you for your response! I do notice the fish rubbing against each other, in fact, at least half of them are doing it. I thought it was mating rituals but I feel like they're too young for that? I'm no expert though! They don't ever just randomly dart around - the only time they dart is when I turn their lights on too quickly or turn them off too quickly. They don't rub against the walls of the tank or the driftwood either - just each other. I'll keep an eye on the white spots and see if any changes. I haven't introduced anything new into the tank and my WC temp is usually pretty identical to what's it the tank (maybe a half degree in either direction)..


The twitching could very well be social/territorial or even mating rituals. Do they ever rub their bodies against your driftwood or make quick darting/flashing against anything?

Do look over very carefully the fish w white spots and others as spots on the body are harder to see. Now.....if these were my fish and I saw .....any......more of those white dots or those same fish even had just one more dot, I would tend to think it is Ich. The reason why I’d be rather concerned and very observant is bc, if it is Ich, treating it early is of paramount importance imho. Just out of curiosity......is your WC water temp exactly the same as your tank water temperature and have you introduced anything else to your tank like plants, snails, dither fish, or even Discus? Btw.....if it is Ich....you’ll have treat the entire tank and just remove the one or two fish w white spots. For every spot you see on the fish means there is likely 10-100x the number of free swimming younger forms of Ich you cannot see in the tank/gravel. Hopefully some others will chime in, but my gut tells me you do have the early signs of Ich....based mostly on the first of your three pics.....and I do wish I was wrong. Stay on top of this though and don’t fret, as Ich is indeed treatable and reading about the Ich lifecycle will greatly help you understand how to attack it.....and with what.

[Acerrato]

Also wondering if I should bring the temp up to 87F as precautionary? It's currently at 86... Someone mentioned to me that ick cannot survive in 87F temps.....

Also want to add that I just went back through all of the photos I've taken of my fish and the 2 White leopards have had those teeny spots in the same locations on the tail since they arrived 7 days ago. If it were ick, at 86F, wouldn't it have rapidly spread by now?

[14Discus]

Most forms of Ich do not live that high, but I’ve seen Ich at that temp. If it were I, I’d put temp to 90, treat w Paraguard with extra aeration as oxygen levels drop off w higher temps. This combination has worked for me great years ago. I also have Rid Ich Plus by Kordon should I need a one-two punch. Others will disagree w me and swear by heat alone and that’s fine. I’m just sharing how I’ve dealt with it years ago. Paraguard by Seachem is great stuff, is mild to fish and highly effective. One must, though, follow the directions and not deviate. Luckily, my supply of Paraguard has sat idle for the last few years......knock on wood.

Incidentally.....raising the temp may kill off .....most.....Ich, but its main goal is to speed up the life cycle of Ich so the treatment will have more time to act in the two stages of the Ich lifecycle vulnerable to meds. Interestingly, treatments do not act on the spots on fish or the egg mass stage in your tank bottom, just when the Ich is in its free swimming stage. IMHO, elevated temp w ....say Paraguard, is a great sure fire approach to dealing with Ich.

Yes....it would rapidly spread, but still takes time and, as I’m hoping in your case, it may just be getting started. Remember, too, that this organism multiplies in exponential factors. What may seem like a few now may quickly become a lot more.

[seanyuki]

I doubt it is Ich and hardly any symptoms on the body and most likely is gas bubble disease .

[Acerrato]

Gas bubble disease? Just looked it up- would you recommend that I keep the python hose above the water line while filling the tank rather than sticking the tube right into the water? Would that help?


I doubt it is Ich and hardly any symptoms on the body and most likely is gas bubble disease .

[14Discus]

Francis, I hope you are right. That’s why I suggested, early on, a very close examination of the body which is hard to do bc of the fish body coloring along with watching for increased numbers of spots.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing
An article from Rick Grange of Canadian Aqua farm..... 2. Gas Bubble Disease & How To Prevent It

http://stores.canadianaquafarm.com/articles/

[Acerrato]

Thank you both so much! Keeping an eye on these guys.. I'll post an update if/when I have one :)


Francis, I hope you are right. That’s why I suggested, early on, a very close examination of the body which is hard to do bc of the fish body coloring along with watching for increased numbers of spots.

[seanyuki]

Gas bubble disease? Just looked it up- would you recommend that I keep the python hose above the water line while filling the tank rather than sticking the tube right into the water? Would that help?




I use water pump and a hose with garden attachments and a clamp to refill the tank.127234127235.....you could keep the python hose immerse in the tank.

HTH

[coralbandit]

The spots look viral to me .
Tons of angelfish have been seen with similar spots on the tail in particular and meds and temp made no difference .
The spots cleared up after several weeks of good water and food for the angel folks ..
I say breeding behavior for the twitching personally but can not be positive without seeing it ..

[Acerrato]

Thank you Tom!


The spots look viral to me .
Tons of angelfish have been seen with similar spots on the tail in particular and meds and temp made no difference .
The spots cleared up after several weeks of good water and food for the angel folks ..
I say breeding behavior for the twitching personally but can not be positive without seeing it ..

[Acerrato]

One of my blue snakeskin's brought food over to my Red pigeon blood.... I haven't see this behavior yet - is this something that they actually do? The pigeon was swimming around in the middle of the tank while everyone else was eating BH from my hand.... Blue snakeskin swam over to the PB and spit out a big chunk of BH right in the PB's face....It looked like he was trying to feed her (or she was trying to feed him)?...

[Willie]

One of my blue snakeskin's brought food over to my Red pigeon blood.... I haven't see this behavior yet - is this something that they actually do? The pigeon was swimming around in the middle of the tank while everyone else was eating BH from my hand.... Blue snakeskin swam over to the PB and spit out a big chunk of BH right in the PB's face....It looked like he was trying to feed her (or she was trying to feed him)?...

No.

[Acerrato]

Well, he was just being a jerk then... hahaha


No.

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone... Just an update... I've been slowly removing the sand from the tank over the last 4 days or so - still another day or two before it's all been removed. It gets EVERYWHERE.... It makes it frustrating when I put my pump in the tank for my WC.. It blows the sand all over the place... it sticks to the driftwood and sometimes the fish. I'm going to add a very very thin layer of white gravel instead. I'm still doing between 30%-70% WC's daily as well as vacuuming. A couple of the fish are stressed - mainly my 2 Blue Snakeskins.... both are eating every time I feed everyone but they seem to just be hanging out in the back of the tank, facing the back wall lately.... Keeping an eye on them though... no noticeable injuries and no bullying that I can see... They're still being social with me for the most part (coming out to see me when I walk by or if they notice I'm getting ready to feed them).... I cleaned one of my filters today and there are now slime strings floating around in the tank - I'm assuming the filter will take care of them. The white spots on my White Leopard's tails hasn't changed - both are happy and eating!

[seanyuki]

I use a wet/dry vacuum to suck out all the sand ....120 gallons tank less than 10 mins.

[Acerrato]

That's what I'm using - it's hard for me to maneuver around the tank with the utility pump though... I have to just get all of the sand onto one side and then suck the rest of it up.. It's mostly BB right now but there are some spots that still have sand.. Hoping to have it all gone by tomorrow. I ordered a few different backgrounds I'd like to test out on the back of the tank. Very helpful suggestions on backgrounds from Tom (Coralbandit). Can't wait till they arrive - I'm getting anxious about how this tank will look after I can start really doing what I want to it.. 4 more weeks of QT!


I use a wet/dry vacuum to suck out all the sand ....120 gallons tank less than 10 mins.

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone - I think I've found the culprit of the stress... Tested my pH today and it is 7.4 (it was 6.6 last week)... It's still coming out of the tap at 6.6-6.8.... I noticed the stress from the Snakeskin's a day or two after I added the crushed coral to my filter to help with my GH/KH... I've just removed the coral. I plan on doing a 30% water change today to try to bring the pH down a bit... Is 30% going to cause too much of a swing?

Tank parameters are:
pH 7.4. (this has been the only change in the tank parameters)
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrates 10ppm (or less depending on if I've done my WC or not for the day)

As always, thank you all for your help!

[seanyuki]

should not be a problem doing a 30% water change......how much crushed corals were added into the tank?

[Acerrato]

I added a lot - If I had to guesstimate, I'd say 8oz or so (I was told by several people that the amount didn't matter)... Hopefully I've figured out the Snakeskin mystery....

[seanyuki]

my limited knowledge.....crushed corals in a mesh bag will leech faster inside your HOB or Canister......I put mine in the HOB filter otherwise I may suck the crushed corals at the bottom of the tank while doing water changes.....just my 2 cents.

[Acerrato]

Yes, it was in a mesh bag in the HOB!

[Acerrato]

Alright guys... we have long white stringy poo from one of the Snakeskins... Today is day 3 of them both not eating.. I've only seen one with the white stringy poo though. Do you guys think I should wait a little longer on this? Or do we think I need to take the 2 of them out & put in their own tank w/ high heat & epsom salt? Or should I do this to the entire tank?... The only meds I have on hand is metronidazole powder purchased from Dena Edwards at Everything Aquatics..... I'm also waiting on a message back from Hans on what his suggestion would be

[seanyuki]

1. Transfer sick fish to hospital tank.
2. Using a cycled sponge filter (disease free) for hospital tank.
3. Adjust water temperature to 33 Celsius. Using a heater.
4. Add .5 mg Metronidazole to every 10 gallons using digital gram scale.
5. Metronidazole treatment twice a day with a water change in between for 14 days(compulsory).
6. Add one tablespoon of Epsom salt per 10 gallons on the first day.
7. Monitor sick discus and observe the poo.

HTH

[Acerrato]

Thanks Francis - I have the hospital tank setup and ready to go - just waiting on a response from Hans... I'm not sure if I should try heat/epsom salt first prior to the metro.. Also not sure if I should add the 2nd snakeskin to the hospital tank.. I haven't seen white poo from him but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is none - I'm down here with them half of the day.. I don't know what goes on the other half of the day!

[seanyuki]

Thanks Francis - I have the hospital tank setup and ready to go - just waiting on a response from Hans... I'm not sure if I should try heat/epsom salt first prior to the metro.. Also not sure if I should add the 2nd snakeskin to the hospital tank.. I haven't seen white poo from him but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is none - I'm down here with them half of the day.. I don't know what goes on the other half of the day!


Hans is the man to solve your problems and keep us updated.

[Iminit]

Being Hans fish I can’t believe it’s sick. I think the white poo is because it’s not eating. No substance of food just whatever minerals are going through it. I think it’s stress related because of all the new fish together. I believe put it in the qt tank with the higher temp and maybe add a garlic flake food or (from @coralbandit) a drop of orange extract. These are known to get fish to eat. I would not medicate just yet.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing

The trick was to place an orange peel in the aquarium for 24 hours. Each day, remove the old orange peel, and add another. As he explained it, you can do this for up to seven days before you should “give the fish a break.” A few days “off” with some carbon and a water change and you could repeat the “treatment” if needed. But wait, I haven’t even told you what this supposedly does!
For whatever reason, the result of this process, is*an increase in vigor and appetite among the Discus, particularly those that are newly imported. In short, add the fresh orange peel every day and there will be “more awareness and appetite.*No ‘black death’ look to them.”

Dick Au author of Back to Nature Guide to discus & Trophy Discus .

[coralbandit]

Just sharing

The trick was to place an orange peel in the aquarium for 24 hours. Each day, remove the old orange peel, and add another. As he explained it, you can do this for up to seven days before you should “give the fish a break.” A few days “off” with some carbon and a water change and you could repeat the “treatment” if needed. But wait, I haven’t even told you what this supposedly does!
For whatever reason, the result of this process, is*an increase in vigor and appetite among the Discus, particularly those that are newly imported. In short, add the fresh orange peel every day and there will be “more awareness and appetite.*No ‘black death’ look to them.”

Dick Au author of Back to Nature Guide to discus & Trophy Discus .

That is the info from the article I read also .
I am a junk food junky so no oranges in the house and honestly too lazy to peel an orange everyday !
Further research shows that orange peel is not really all that water soluble so I started to conduct my own experiment using orange extract found in grocery stores .Most articles I found said orange peel needs alcohol to dissolve it so orange extract seemed like a logical choice to me .I have been doing it for almost a year now .I don't add every day but I was also not changing water everyday ..I think the garlic has only antecdotal evidence of working and is another one of the things many do and believe in that I do not ..Besides the orange extract smells and makes the fish room smell much better IMO !
I have dosed between 1-3 ml. per 20g of tank water and had no issues at all .I do it with water changes for no real good reason .I figured in nature there really was a far greater chance of an orange finding it's way into the water then garlic , but what do I know ?
The article ;
https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2016/04/19/introducing-orange-peel-discus/

http://r.search.aol.com/_ylt=AwrExdqF64Ze2AMAggpjCWVH;_ylu=X3oDMTIyYTE4cjI 2BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZANmZWY5Njk0YTUzZDQzZjc2M GUyZDUwYzZiOWQxZTk3NgRncG9zAzYEaXQDYmluZw--/RV=2/RE=1585929222/RO=11/RU=https%3a%2f%2fcdn3.bigcommerce.com%2fs-60yzq6%2fproducts%2f2484%2fimages%2f7155%2fNielsen _Massey_Orange_Extract__06831.1450777327.1280.1280 .jpg%3fc%3d2/RK=0/RS=dwjPv4FC1_5rTFynIdwTWc7hXfs-
^ this is the particular brand I use but I think they are all the same . Just orange peel and alcohol ..

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone.. It was suggested to me to wait a few days to see if there are any improvements. I did turn the heat up to 88F though. Both snakeskin's have not eaten - one of them is still having CLEAR poo (I said yesterday that it was white - it is not)... So I'm not sure if the clear is just what Tom (Iminit) said - maybe it's just from not eating and that's what came out? Really hoping to see improvements tomorrow.. I'm getting worried about them.

[icuRN]

How are they looking?

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone! They're doing okay - they've been in a QT tank for about 5-6 days now!! I've been treating with metro once every 24hrs... Today was the first day that they attempted to eat... they ate a couple of bloodworms each and a small bite of beef heart - I'm really very happy about this! On a side note, I'm lucky I ordered extra metro last week.. One of my dogs got my other 100 gram bottle of metro and decided to spread it all over my living room floor this morning.. I can imagine he got one taste of it and ran away... haha

[Acerrato]

They're going back in the main tank tomorrow - wish me luck!! They stopped eating again, but hopefully that changes when they're back with the others

[Acerrato]

Alright, so, I'm impatient.... They're back in the main tank and they're doing great!! They're swimming with the group - being a little shy.. but they both ate when I fed everyone! I hope they continue to recover.. Seeing them shoal with the others really makes me SO HAPPY!

[seanyuki]

That's great news.

[Shan_Evolved]

Woo hoo!!

[Iminit]

Congrats!!!

[Acerrato]

Hi Everyone - these two are pretty happy today. They're both pecking at the wood together and they're also swimming with everyone else!
127475

[coralbandit]

Nice !
Glad to hear they are doing better .

[Acerrato]

Wow... I didn't realize it's been nearly a year since I've updated my thread... Hi Everyone - all of my fish have been terrific! All of my fish from Hans are happy and healthy - all approx. 6"+..

I did start up another tank a few months ago. It's a 90 gallon and I have 9 discus from Winnie's Discus.. These fish are giant... GIANT. I'm having trouble uploading photos so I may have to add them to a website and then post the link here. I'll figure it out and update!

[fljones3]

Amanda, eager to see your beauties. Sounds like a wonderful tank.


Wow... I didn't realize it's been nearly a year since I've updated my thread... Hi Everyone - all of my fish have been terrific! All of my fish from Hans are happy and healthy - all approx. 6"+..

I did start up another tank a few months ago. It's a 90 gallon and I have 9 discus from Winnie's Discus.. These fish are giant... GIANT. I'm having trouble uploading photos so I may have to add them to a website and then post the link here. I'll figure it out and update!

[Acerrato]

Here are my new fish from Winnie's Discus!


http://youtu.be/8G1Kf3rOTMI

[seanyuki]

Those discus any mating behaviour? Thanks for posting the video.

[Willie]

You're so lucky to live within driving distance. Drool...

[Acerrato]

129820
129821
129822

[Shan_Evolved]

Gorgeous

[Acerrato]

You're so lucky to live within driving distance. Drool...

I know!! He's only about 25 minutes away from me now.. I'll be visiting him again soon to see what other goodies he has for me! Haha!

[AquaticNerd]

Those look incredible!

[jeep]

Nice job Amanda!!

[Acerrato]

Thank you everyone... After having Hans' fish for 10-12 months and trial/error with that tank & equipment, I knew exactly what I wanted to do with the 90 gallon. I took my time setting it up, making sure it was perfect and ready (and of course fully cycled from scratch). It's bare bottom, running an FX6 with a spraybar, sponge filter, air stone, 4 large faux bamboo plants, black background, 2 AI Prime Reef lights, dual 200watt titanium heaters with an inkbird temp controller. I'm very happy with this setup and the fish really are so healthy and lovely to watch.

[fljones3]

Sweet. Beautiful.

[Iminit]

Found it :). And I’ve been here before :rolleyes2:. Great looking discus from winnies!! You went to the store? I forgot about them :(. They recently moved. Where are they now? How’s all the Hans Discus doing? Pics maybe? Like I said it gets addicting!! You must have restraint :rolleyes2:. Looks like your husband likes them too!

[danotaylor]

Wowzers, very nice mate!


http://youtu.be/8G1Kf3rOTMI

[coralbandit]

They look great !
It is nice to hear from you again Amanda .

[Second Hand Pat]

Your guys from Ceyhun are gorgeous Amanda :) Everytime Ceyhun posts fish I drool. The man is a master.
Pat

[Jenene]

Beautiful fish! My daughter lives in Manhattan and I’d been meaning to visit Ceyhun since I met them at Al’s years ago. The timing just never seemed to work out.

You’ve learned a lot since that first group of three and certainly have two big success stories to share!

I just started another group as well so I hadn’t been back to the forum much in a long time. I have really been enjoying the return to the community although I don’t have as much time with the reef tank care as well. The second group is a bit more enjoyable having more experience isn’t it?

My favorite time of day is settling in with my coffee and watching the first feeding. It’s reassurance that they are thriving.

Thank you for sharing. They are stunning.

[Willie]

129822

I've met lots of discus keepers who tell me they can't have a bare bottom tank in the living area. If only they could see how beautiful such a setup could be...

[seanyuki]

What are you feeding those discus and your water changes routines.

[Acerrato]

Thank you all so much! Jenene - Yes... I've certainly come a long long way from those 3 little guys that I first had!! .. The fish from Winnie's are extremely easy to care for now that I have some experience and now that I can identifying what is/is not an emergency - I am no longer panicking over every little thing that I notice... Those were a wild few months (I learned a lot though). I wish I could respond to you all individually but i'll try to reply to everyone here! Iminit - Ceyhun just moved! He's in Coram now (only about 25 minutes or so from me)... Thank you Willie - I agree - I love the look of bare bottom tanks - I painted the outside bottom a sand color and I put a black window tint on the back glass.. I loved the sharp look that this combo gave! Added a few faux bamboo plants and voila! I'm very satisfied with the entire setup.

Fljones, Pat, Brian, Dano, Tom... Thank you guys so much!!

[Acerrato]

Francis - Winnie's fish are getting freeze dried blackworms, Prime reef flakes, sera granules, freeze dried brine shrimp, beefheart (only once a week at most for the BH)... I mix it up everyday so it's never the same. I'm water changing 50% twice a week for them! They're all adults (18 months - 3 years old).

[Acerrato]

Another video of the 90 gallon (Winnie's Discus)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHhTvKzWaxk&feature=youtu.be

[Acerrato]

And here's the 125 gallon tank - All Discus Hans fish!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88A6U_xahS0&feature=youtu.be

[Shan_Evolved]

Holy gorgeousness! How old are those beauties?

[Acerrato]

Holy gorgeousness! How old are those beauties?

Thank you Shan!!! The fish from Winnie's Discus vary between 18 months-3 years old and Hans' fish are probably a couple of months over a year now!

[Iminit]

Wow and congrats!! Those tanks look great!! The 125 is a 6’ tank? I thought I had a lot of discus :).

[Acerrato]

Thank you! Yes that's a 6 foot tank and there are 19 Discus in there - running an FX6, an FX4 & 4 sponge filters on that tank. I have 9 discus in my 90 gallon!

[AquaticNerd]

I'm just drooling over here, they all look great! :)

I can't wait to begin looking for a new house with my wife - I know a few things I'll be looking for in terms of a prime spot for multiple tanks. Maybe one day I'll get close to your numbers!

[famtsberg]

beautiful fish and tank. :)

[Acerrato]

Thanks everyone - I've got a funny story and thought you guys may appreciate it.. I'm copying directly from my facebook post..

I love trying new things... it’s always an adventure...

I purchased a 44g Brute garbage can to start aerating my water in prior to water changes on my 90gallon tank. So excited, I get home, rush down to the basement and start filling the can. I add prime. I drop my pond pump in which is standing straight up and I turn it on. Suddenly, I’m blasted straight in the eyeball by what feels like what I’d imagine the Old Faithful geyser would feel like. Frantically, I unplug the pump realizing that I was probably supposed to lay it on it’s side in the pail. My children run down the stairs after hearing me screaming and then they start screaming “DADDY!!!! MOMMY’S FISH TANK EXPLODED- HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPP”..... husband comes down the stairs to find me drenched, head to toe, about an 4 gallons of water on the floor and just starts laughing at me.... Anyway.... this is how we learn, right?

[Shan_Evolved]

Hahah! Sounds like you had a blast.

[Acerrato]

Hahah! Sounds like you had a blast.

LITERALLY!!! Hahahaha

[Iminit]

Lol!! Ok what you need is a camera in your fish room :). You know if you did that would have made a great utube video :).

[Acerrato]

Lol!! Ok what you need is a camera in your fish room :). You know if you did that would have made a great utube video :).

I know... it would have been priceless!

[danotaylor]

Lol, funny stuff. This great hobby does provide for some humorous situations.
Amanda if I may add, it is best not to add Prime prior to aging as it only detoxifies chloramine (which is ammonia) for up to 48 hours. It is not necessary to dechlorinate during the gas off process. Aerate, heat and circulate the aging water, add Prime directly to the barrel or tank immediately before you refill your tank.
Sorry to get all serious on ya :p

[Acerrato]

Lol, funny stuff. This great hobby does provide for some humorous situations.
Amanda if I may add, it is best not to add Prime prior to aging as it only detoxifies chloramine (which is ammonia) for up to 48 hours. It is not necessary to dechlorinate during the gas off process. Aerate, heat and circulate the aging water, add Prime directly to the barrel or tank immediately before you refill your tank.
Sorry to get all serious on ya :p

Thank you! I am only aerating for a few hours prior to the water change to get rid of nitrogen bubbles - I'm not aging the water!

[danotaylor]

Thank you! I am only aerating for a few hours prior to the water change to get rid of nitrogen bubbles - I'm not aging the water!

Ok gotcha, no problem then! :thumbsup:

[jeep]

Thank you! I am only aerating for a few hours prior to the water change to get rid of nitrogen bubbles - I'm not aging the water!

Actually, that IS aging :gorgeous:

[Acerrato]

Actually, that IS aging :gorgeous:

Well yes, technically I suppose it is... When I think of "aging", I usually think of those who are doing it for 24+ hours.. It makes me think back to my grandfather when I was young.. he had a 55 gallon tank that he was just obsessed with. His favorite fish was this beautiful black and silver angel fish.. my brother and I were never allowed to touch the tank - we weren't allowed anywhere near the tank.. it was the only rule in the house! And the funny thing is - I used to get to upset with him. Now, it's one of my rules with my own kids - don't go anywhere near the tanks, don't even look at the tanks! Hahaha.. For water changes, my grandfather would fill buckets and just let them sit for days on end until they were "ready"..

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Amanda, that is pretty funny. I might suggest simply using a air pump/air stone to "gas off" your water. Best way of avoiding showers in the basement lol.
Pat

[Acerrato]

Thank you Pat! I used the pump instead because I thought it would get rid of the bubbles quicker.. after an hour of using the pump, I have 0 gas bubbles when I refill the tank! This is easiest for me honestly because it's an all in one.. If I did an airstone, I'd have to pickup an extra air pump & tubing.. This is working for me (for now) - until the next shower... :p

[Acerrato]

Hi Guys... just wondering if anyone has any experience with their discus eating sand? I have a fish for about a month now pooping out sand.. yes, I'm 100% sure it's sand and not eggs... they're rock solid & scratch the glass on the bottom of the tank.. The tank is barebottom but i used to have sand in the tank 9+ months ago and there's still some lingering sand around in certain areas. The fish get fed freeze dried blackworms, ocean nutrition prime reef flakes, freeze dried brine shrimp & sera granules - the mixture is different everyday though. They had a case of cross contamination a few months ago but everyone is fine and recovered.. I'm stumped on this though.. I've physically seen the fish pass poop with the sand in it as well as finding poop/sand chunks in different areas of the tank. When the fish passes the poop with sand, it drops right to the bottom of the tank quickly as if there's small rocks in it's poop (which there are...)... it's 100% sand, definitely no eggs (parasites)...

Also keep in mind, there's barely any sand in the tank.. he's definitely going out of his way to eat the sand specifically. It's more of a very very fine gravel than sand.

[jeep]

I've seen little chunks of gravel before. I'm not sure where they come from because my tanks are bare bottom. I certainly hope they aren't making them and pooping them out, lol...

[Acerrato]

Haha!! I'm going to try adding an additional feeding back into the day's routine... when I had the case of CC, I cut back on amount of times I was feeding per day to try to keep the water cleaner. Hopefully this helps!

[JeffK44]

Incredible macro shots! Great looking tank.