Please help - New Discus hasn’t eaten in a month

[Discus Drew]

I’ve been talking to and getting advice from the supplier and one other very trusted source but I’m at a point where I am open to suggestions. Very frustrating. very beautiful and expensive specimen. Do not want to lose her at all. Any expert advice greatly appreciated. Personally been keeping discus for about 3 years now never dealt with something like this right from the start of getting a new fish. Would love to hear from anyone who has experienced this.

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Quarantined two new arrivals and one hasn’t eaten. It’s been one month.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Not eating, pooped two small yellow poops this whole time I’ve had it. Both fish sometimes scratches, sometimes one clamped fin.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I know many are against shot gunning medications but I’ve tried lots. After initial three days of not eating FDBW, FBW or FBS I treated with kusuri for four days to no avail. Then I tried levamisole for 24 hours to no avail then I tried praziquantel for 48 hours to no avail. Then I tried a week of just clean water, temp at 90, couple days of epsom salt and FBH, that’s what supplier was feeding along with FBS. Hoping meds and new location were taking away appetite. Did not eat but this is when it pooped out a tiny piece of yellow poop.
Yellow poop got me thinking it’s bacterial. I know yellow poop can indicate certain worms but already dewormed them. So on 4/13 started to lower temp, I put kanamycin/furan2 and metronidazole all together as I’ve read it can be ok to do this in tough situations like this. I’m always super reluctant to use live food but have tried live BW now. Fish has now attempted to eat and spat out food immediately. I am hoping this is a sign of things turning around for the best. Will try to treat her with these 3 meds for a week and back to clean water after. Daily water changes since day 1 with this fish

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
20 gallon quarantine. 6” maze turq is the non-eater and bought a 6” pigeon blood at same time who is in quarantine with her

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
75-90% daily

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tank was set up to quarantine new fish. BB. Trying my best to keep it clean as possible

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Do not age my water

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime, use dosage on bottol

9. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____now 83, tried 90 for little over a week

- ph _____ 7.5

- ammonia reading ____0

- nitrite reading ____0

- nitrate reading ____0

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____all municipal

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Feeding 2 times a day. Have tried FD black worms, Frozen blood worms, FBS, flakes, FBH, spinach blanched and live Black worms. In past two days fish has attempted but has spat out live BWs which I am solely putting in the tank from here on out until I can get it to eat.


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Will add pictures in AM as of right now lights are off in their room.

[bluelagoon]

I must say. You folks that don't age and aerate large volumes of water. I can't see anything but issues sometimes. Out of tap any tank should do well with a 25% WC from the tap. But when you start changing large volumes with water coming in under pressure it is full of gases and this not O2. Sometimes when you get older fish, it takes longer "sometimes" for them to eat, especially if they were used to a certain kind of food.

[Iminit]

Being a 6” fish was it from a breeder or a seller(someone who imports). If a seller it’s hard to guess why it’s not eating. Seller may have just got it in and shipped it to you. Lots of stress. When you got it did you feed food from seller? This fish may have only eaten one food it’s whole life. How is the pigeon? Is it eating and healthy? Seems like you’ve tried everything allready. I would bring the temp to 86 and keep the water clean 50% daily and hope for the best. Also I think I’d be asking for another fish or my money back by now.

[jeep]

Please stop medicating this fish. You said it didn't eat for the first 3 days? This discus was stressed from shipping, stressed by daily 90% un-aged water changes then stressed by 6 different medications in one month. The first 3 meds you used will suppress the appetite in the first place. I would leave it alone... Temp 88, age the water, add 2 TBS salt per 10g and add and hope it doesn't die of organ failure at this point...

[Discus Drew]

I must say. You folks that don't age and aerate large volumes of water. I can't see anything but issues sometimes. Out of tap any tank should do well with a 25% WC from the tap. But when you start changing large volumes with water coming in under pressure it is full of gases and this not O2. Sometimes when you get older fish, it takes longer "sometimes" for them to eat, especially if they were used to a certain kind of food.

I’ll try aging the water, never have in three years and it’s never caused a problem. Supplier said them and breeder both used BH that’s what I tried feeding when I did a week of no meds and high temps.

[Discus Drew]

Being a 6” fish was it from a breeder or a seller(someone who imports). If a seller it’s hard to guess why it’s not eating. Seller may have just got it in and shipped it to you. Lots of stress. When you got it did you feed food from seller? This fish may have only eaten one food it’s whole life. How is the pigeon? Is it eating and healthy? Seems like you’ve tried everything allready. I would bring the temp to 86 and keep the water clean 50% daily and hope for the best. Also I think I’d be asking for another fish or my money back by now.

It was from a seller, they had received it two weeks prior. When I did a week of no meds, high temps and daily water changes I contacted seller and they said breeder and them both feed BH and FBS so I was trying BH, (previously tried FBS) but it wasn’t interested at all. The yellow poop indicates a problem and clean water for a week didn’t do the trick so I don’t think it will do the trick again either.

[Discus Drew]

Please stop medicating this fish. You said it didn't eat for the first 3 days? This discus was stressed from shipping, stressed by daily 90% un-aged water changes then stressed by 6 different medications in one month. The first 3 meds you used will suppress the appetite in the first place. I would leave it alone... Temp 88, age the water, add 2 TBS salt per 10g and add and hope it doesn't die of organ failure at this point...

Thanks maybe you missed the part where I did nothing but clean water for a week and high temps after deworming medicine and then it pooped yellow indicating a problem? Pretty routine practice to deworm new fish, got this into my quarantine practice after watching Brewmaster15’s video, you may have seen it. If it does have a bacterial problem and I stop medication now then the strain will become resistant.... not my usual method to shot gun meds but it had already been just under a month that it hasn’t eaten, a week of clean water and yellow poop indicating bacterial. The seller recommended the three meds at once and they are a reputable seller amongst this forum and another trusted source recommended kanamycin. I went the three meds at once choice because at this point it’s a race against time. The other fish is eating well, neither seem very stressed from water changes but I can try aging the water.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Drew, Al does not deworm fish until they are eating well and have recovered from shipping. Also it is not unusually for adult discus to not eat for awhile after being shipped. IMO you medicated way too fast and kept pounding the fish with meds, many which put a fish off eating. Al would recommend a week between meds to allow the fish to detox itself. I would suggest you not use meds for a couple weeks, just clean water to detox and see if it comes around.
Pat

[jeep]

Yes, I saw that part, and I know Al's procedures very well. I'm not trying to beat you down, just trying to point out that this fish needs a rest.

[Discus Drew]

Hi Drew, Al does not deworm fish until they are eating well and have recovered from shipping. Also it is not unusually for adult discus to not eat for awhile after being shipped. IMO you medicated way too fast and kept pounding the fish with meds, many which put a fish off eating. Al would recommend a week between meds to allow the fish to detox itself. I would suggest you not use meds for a couple weeks, just clean water to detox and see if it comes around.
Pat

Thanks. So moving forward you suggest stopping meds even though it pooped out yellow? (Which can make bacteria resistant) And even though I tried a week of no meds and clean water to no avail? Am I crazy for thinking yellow poop and a week of just clean water indicates that the fish will most likely not start eating with just clean water? Other new fish eats great.
Again I seeked pro advice right after the deworming meds and it was clean water for a week and if still not eating, metronidazole, from two reputable sources. Once i saw the yellow poop I was recommended to do a antibacterial medicine after week of clean water and it was recommended by seller who is reputable amongst this forum and the discus community to try all three at same time as we don’t know if it could be gram negative or positive and that metronidazole can be used congruently. Other pro suggested wait a week with clean water then if nothing try metro but I updated them about the yellow poop and he suggested kanamycin. This guy is very respected in the discus community and on this forum. I know I messed up by deworming too soon but we can’t go back wards, and at least we know it’s not worms. Al’s video said week one observe fish behavior and treat for anything noted, guess that was a bad call on me for thinking not eating indicated worms and to start treating.

[Discus Drew]

Yes, I saw that part, and I know Al's procedures very well. I'm not trying to beat you down, just trying to point out that this fish needs a rest.

Thanks. How long of a rest would suggest and what would be your next course of action?

[jeep]

Discus can go a very long time without eating. I would recommend this medium high heat for at least a week, along with this very mild amount of regular salt, then assess the situation. At the end of the week, you may want to increase or decrease the temp according to how its doing. I know people in the LA area, and their water seems pretty good and stable, so I would reduce the water changes down to 40-50% daily or every other day. Unless something turns critical, I would plan this course of action for at least 2-3 weeks. The salt at this level is only a stress reliever and can actually help purge the body of toxins and/or infection... If you see any swelling in the body then reduce the heat to 82.

[jeep]

BTW if you are in the middle of a course of antibiotics, I would finish because you are correct about bacteria strains and resistance...

[Discus Drew]

Discus can go a very long time without eating. I would recommend this medium high heat for at least a week, along with this very mild amount of regular salt, then assess the situation. At the end of the week, you may want to increase or decrease the temp according to how its doing. I know people in the LA area, and their water seems pretty good and stable, so I would reduce the water changes down to 40-50% daily or every other day. Unless something turns critical, I would plan this course of action for at least 2-3 weeks. The salt at this level is only a stress reliever and can actually help purge the body of toxins and/or infection... If you see any swelling in the body then reduce the heat to 82.

Thank you keep

[Iminit]

Is the poo yellow or cleanish in color. Remember this fish hasn’t eaten. Im with Jeep. It’s stress. Warm water and the salt should help. Hope you see results soon. I’m feelin bad for the pigeon. Also what’s FBS?

[seanyuki]

Is the poo yellow or cleanish in color. Remember this fish hasn’t eaten. Im with Jeep. It’s stress. Warm water and the salt should help. Hope you see results soon. I’m feelin bad for the pigeon. Also what’s FBS?

FBS=Frozen Brine Shrimps

[Discus Drew]

Is the poo yellow or cleanish in color. Remember this fish hasn’t eaten. Im with Jeep. It’s stress. Warm water and the salt should help. Hope you see results soon. I’m feelin bad for the pigeon. Also what’s FBS?

Yellow, very yellow. As I stated too I did a week of clean water and high temps. What would you do if your fish pooped yellow after a week of clean water? Genuinely curious as we are all here to learn.

At this point I’ll have to finish out meds in the tank as to make sure no bacteria strains become resistant and start aging my water.

And yes FBS is frozen brine shrimp

[Saguaro]

As a guy who did the mix and match meds a few times before I can tell you dont beat yourself up , sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. I had discus starve and somehow live for months and I had seemingly healthy discus not eat for a few days suddenly die. This way you atleast wont blame yourself for not trying. As for advice, like others have said keep everything stable for a week. After that I personally keep higher temps, for me it just works better and easyer. A good trick is also to put some decoration in the tank, or move it around. Personaly I had a group of young fish who would not eat if I was nearby, then I put a bunch of filter sponges in the tank because I was cleanig or moving another tank-I dont remember anymore. And suddenly they became little piranhas. That and get a siringe with some small toubing, its a great way to force feed them- as a last resort

[Iminit]

Yes I guess finish the meds. Me I don’t use meds. Nothing youve listed have I ever used. Patience and clean water. Patience before panic. If your seller comes recommended and has a good history his fish are going to be healthy. The better discus bred by professionals are breeding dewormed and clean fish in sterile tanks for generations. The only way there going to get something is from you. So if new and not eating they’re stressed. I qt new fish for 4 weeks. I’ve bought 3 different sets in the last year. Lost one fish. I believe it was do to beef heart. I had just started feeding some frozen Bh and I believe it just couldn’t digest it. No problems at all before and dead within a week. 6 of my discus were bought from a local fish store at quarter size. Even they came disease free. Nobody wants to sell sick discus.
Once your done with your meds try adding orange extract to your water. Just a few drops. This has been known to get fish to eat. Something else I feed my fish weekly is NutriDiet discus flakes. There’s some garlic in them and some fish react to garlic and eat.

[Discus Drew]

As a guy who did the mix and match meds a few times before I can tell you dont beat yourself up , sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt. I had discus starve and somehow live for months and I had seemingly healthy discus not eat for a few days suddenly die. This way you atleast wont blame yourself for not trying. As for advice, like others have said keep everything stable for a week. After that I personally keep higher temps, for me it just works better and easyer. A good trick is also to put some decoration in the tank, or move it around. Personaly I had a group of young fish who would not eat if I was nearby, then I put a bunch of filter sponges in the tank because I was cleanig or moving another tank-I dont remember anymore. And suddenly they became little piranhas. That and get a siringe with some small toubing, its a great way to force feed them- as a last resort

Thanks bro I appreciate it. After meds run their course I will they aged water high temps and salt. If no avail may have to force feed.

[Discus Drew]

Yes I guess finish the meds. Me I don’t use meds. Nothing youve listed have I ever used. Patience and clean water. Patience before panic. If your seller comes recommended and has a good history his fish are going to be healthy. The better discus bred by professionals are breeding dewormed and clean fish in sterile tanks for generations. The only way there going to get something is from you. So if new and not eating they’re stressed. I qt new fish for 4 weeks. I’ve bought 3 different sets in the last year. Lost one fish. I believe it was do to beef heart. I had just started feeding some frozen Bh and I believe it just couldn’t digest it. No problems at all before and dead within a week. 6 of my discus were bought from a local fish store at quarter size. Even they came disease free. Nobody wants to sell sick discus.
Once your done with your meds try adding orange extract to your water. Just a few drops. This has been known to get fish to eat. Something else I feed my fish weekly is NutriDiet discus flakes. There’s some garlic in them and some fish react to garlic and eat.

Thanks for the input. You know stress can cause disease right? It is actually when an organism is stressed that their immune system becomes inhibited and opportunistic bacteria gain strength in what would otherwise be controlled by a strong immune system. Basically bacteria that can get any organism sick is always present. No living organism is sterile. I’m not a biologist obviously but please explain the yellow poop if it’s just stressed? Very real possibility that fish has been stressed to the point of disease thus yellow poop, also very real possibility it got sick before I got it, wether from the tank the seller had it in, the breeder or the travel also very real possibility I stressed it from the meds and non-aged water, or combo of all things against it. I got the fish just two weeks after seller got them from breeder and breeder is in Malaysia. That’s a lot of travel for anyone. And I doubt beef heart killed your fish but crazier things have happened. Al prophylactically deworms his fish no matter the source. My mistake was deworming too soon and not let fish be acclimated for at least a week before deworming and giving it at least a week or more to eat. I also did wait a couple days in between deworming medicines, Al’s video suggests several days and suggest deworming starting week 2. But week 1 he states observe fish behavior and treat for anything specifically noted. Never had a fish not eat after two days so I panicked and jumped to deworming thinking that would be the best place to start. Kudos to you for never having to use medicine but I do think there is a reason Al prophylactically deworms his fish and I try to follow those with the most experience in the field.

Never heard about orange extract being added will do some research and try it out. Bought a 55 gallon drum today to age water. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing..... The trick was to place an orange peel in the aquarium for 24 hours. Each day, remove the old orange peel, and add another. As he explained it, you can do this for up to seven days before you should “give the fish a break.” A few days “off” with some carbon and a water change and you could repeat the “treatment” if needed. But wait, I haven’t even told you what this supposedly does!

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2016/04/19/introducing-orange-peel-discus/

[Discus Drew]

Just sharing..... The trick was to place an orange peel in the aquarium for 24 hours. Each day, remove the old orange peel, and add another. As he explained it, you can do this for up to seven days before you should “give the fish a break.” A few days “off” with some carbon and a water change and you could repeat the “treatment” if needed. But wait, I haven’t even told you what this supposedly does!

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2016/04/19/introducing-orange-peel-discus/

Very interesting thank you for sharing this article!

[Saguaro]

Thanks for the link. Untill now I just tought it was used to cure scratches

[jeep]

Thanks for the input. You know stress can cause disease right? It is actually when an organism is stressed that their immune system becomes inhibited and opportunistic bacteria gain strength in what would otherwise be controlled by a strong immune system. Basically bacteria that can get any organism sick is always present. No living organism is sterile. I’m not a biologist obviously but please explain the yellow poop if it’s just stressed? Very real possibility that fish has been stressed to the point of disease thus yellow poop, also very real possibility it got sick before I got it, wether from the tank the seller had it in, the breeder or the travel also very real possibility I stressed it from the meds and non-aged water, or combo of all things against it. I got the fish just two weeks after seller got them from breeder and breeder is in Malaysia. That’s a lot of travel for anyone. Al prophylactically deworms his fish no matter the source. My mistake was deworming too soon and not let fish be acclimated for at least a week before deworming and giving it at least a week or more to eat.

The yellow feces could be infection, flagellates or nematodes or it could be the body's reaction to too much medication. Finishing up the current course of meds may help figure this out. The first 2 wormers should have dealt with nematodes and the metro should help with flagellates. Is the feces solid, stringy or puffy/cloudy? Can you snap a close up photo?

High heat will also deal with flagellates (hex), but the possibility of infection exists which is why high heat is not recommended quite yet. Have you used any epsom salt yet? This will help clean out the gut during treatment as well and is harmless in conjunction with current treatment.

Like someone said above, discus can go a long time without eating, but a month is becoming good cause for concern. The medium high heat should help determine if there is infection present by increased swelling in the belly. If this doesn't happen in the next week then I would raise the temp even higher. If it does swell at any time, I would lower the heat to 82 or even 80. With all this poor guy has been through, you may no see positive results for another 2 weeks... Live food was a great choice to get it eating again, and since that didn't work then there's definitely something wrong. Try again from time to time and this will be another way to measure if things are working out...

[dspeers]

I agree that not completing a course of antibiotics is a contributor to resistance but so too is overuse of antibiotics without sufficient indication. Given the lack of response and the possibility that the antibiotic is contributing to the anorexia, I would probably stop the abx. Any consideration for using Epsom salts?

[peewee1]

Just sharing..... The trick was to place an orange peel in the aquarium for 24 hours. Each day, remove the old orange peel, and add another. As he explained it, you can do this for up to seven days before you should “give the fish a break.” A few days “off” with some carbon and a water change and you could repeat the “treatment” if needed. But wait, I haven’t even told you what this supposedly does!

https://www.reef2rainforest.com/2016/04/19/introducing-orange-peel-discus/

I sue the orange peel and salt from time to time.