Hello from Denver, new discus keeper here

[vintageguy64]

Good morning folks. I am new to the forum. I thought I might say hey and tell a little about myself.
My real name is Mark. I am married, almost 30 years to an incredible lady. I have twin boys age 21. One has autism and is deaf. There is nothing in the world more important ot me than my family.

My fish keeping experience started about 45 years ago. Maybe ten of those years I have not had a fish tank. At one point I had almost 45 tanks. Yeah, I was obsessed and overboard. Most of my fish keeping revolved around south american and african cichlids. I have dabbled in salt and planted tanks too. I currently have a 45 tall with three discus(afourth is on the way). They are a heckle blue face, two snake skin and a turquoise. I also have a 180 reef tank that I have set up for discus. It has just started cycling. It will be at a least a few weeks before I can add anything too.

My water parameters of the 45 are 6.0pH, and 83 deg. The fish are pretty active, but not eating great. I am shooting to get the same water conditions in the 180.

SO hello and good morning. I hope to learn alot, and even possible be of some help.
mark

[jeep]

Welcome to Simply Mark. Please ask or answer anything you wish. And, maybe show us some photo's of your setup??

[coralbandit]

Welcome Mark .
Is your water naturally 6 pH or have you altered it ?
What have you been trying to feed the fish .
Hope you can find some help here .

[vintageguy64]

Welcome Mark .
Is your water naturally 6 pH or have you altered it ?
What have you been trying to feed the fish .
Hope you can find some help here .

My water is about 7.4-7.6 from the tap. In my tank I have used 50/50 RO/Tap, added some buffers, snd some drift wood. I have been reading more here at SD and found that most people advise using simply tap water(7.6 is okay). The key is more to stability. THat is easy for me. I was always under the impression discus needed the very low ph to thrive.

The feeding is mostly frozen blood worms. I did try live brine a few days ago. It did entice them and they did eat some. Today they look like they are eating more. THe discus I have are all about 5". I bought them from a local FS about 2 1/2 weeks ago. They looked healthy and I was able to obseve them eating before I bought them. I am almost ready to try treating them with prazi-pro. ANy thoughts?

Thanks for hello as well!!!
Mark

[vintageguy64]

Welcome to Simply Mark. Please ask or answer anything you wish. And, maybe show us some photo's of your setup??

THANKS!!!!
Pics to follow soon(someday soon I hope!)

[coralbandit]

I would stop using any buffer completely .You can bet the fish store did not .
As for treating look at the Basics for beginners section .I am sure there is info on treating new fish there ..
The live brine will be a hard thing to keep up on I would think .Try some type of pellet food as that is what many find works best at filling their fish up .
I feed frozen blood worms and pellet foods along with freeze dried worms in cube form stuck to glass.
I can't say mixing with RO is bad or hard to be consistent with but unless you are trying to breed the fish I would say there is no need .
My tap is 7.6 with a TDS of 350 and I raise all my discus in it .I only make softer water with RO for breeding and when I do that I am sure my pH moves very little but I cut my TDS by two thirds ..
IMO pH is very deceiving way to measure water 'hardness' and can lead to trouble .

[peewee1]

Hi, Mark, and welcome, lad! It somewhat the same for me as with Tom. Tap water at about 7.5 and the fish are fine. Occasionally I feed the frozen blood worms because the nutritional content is lower than in other food choices. Like Tom I feed the cube FDBW blended with the pellets and once a day the frozen brine shrimp. I break the FDBW into pieces into a bowl then add Bug Bites, Tetra Color, and Vitra Bites. Shake it all up and then put the mixture into the aquarium. Some of the blend floats on the top, some goes to the bottom where it says until the grazers eat it up in an hour or so. As you know Discus forage for food all day long in the wild. Not like people who belly up to the table 3 times a day. I will be thinking about your son. He must be both a blessing and a challenge and a remarkable young man.

[Iminit]

Hi Mark! Yes the days of a ph of 6.0 are long over. I kept that way in the late 80s. These days all you need is a steady ph. Your tap is fine and will make it that much easier with water changes. Looking forward to pictures :). As to food I’m against blood worms daily. Mine get them as a treat. Fdbw and black worm flakes daily. Treats are frozen bloodworms,brime shrimp and beef heart. I will also feed any pellets. They eat all. My temp is 84.5 the warmer the better. Are they alone in the tank? How often are you water changing and how much. A lot of lfs discus have problems So pics would be helpful.

[vintageguy64]

Hey folks, thanks for all the feed back.

A little more info. The tds for my tap is about 225. I currently do water changes twice monthly, with a weekly top off of RO. the water change is about 15%. I did check with the fishstore, their water was 50/50 tap/RO and they used discuss buffer to get the ph lower. They are not allone in the tank. I have a pleco, and a pair of gymno geophagus rhabdotus. Also a few very small green severums. Normally I would never stock a tank this full, but the deal on the discus I got was incredible. I do have that 180 that the discus will be going into in about another 10 days.

Also,just as an FYI, I have been keeping fish for almost 45 years.
Questions:
FDBW - freeze dried blood worms?
I am going to stop the buffers and RO fo now. To change the tank back to tap water, what do you folks reccomend? Maybe a 10% wate change every 3-4 days until I get the same ph/tds as the tap? Is that too fast and harsh for the discus?

peewee1 - yes mys sons care can be a challenge, but he is more than just a blessing. The perspective I have learned from him are priceless, he is my heart and soul.

[coralbandit]

You need to change more water more often .Much more , much more often IMO .
15% leaves 85% of the bad stuff in the water and then it is compounded by another 15% change .
After 1 month you tank is basically 90% dirty water ? I can't think of many fish that would do well like that but discus definitely don't dig it .
Most successful discus keepers change 75% a week as a bare minimum. Many of us do that or more several times a week ..
FDBW ~ Freeze Dried Black Worms for most of us although some also feed blood worms .

[LizStreithorst]

Have you checked your water for stability. It's important especially if you do the large WC that keeps Discus healthy. I change a minimum of 30% daily on fish that size. To check to see if your water is stable put some water from the tap in a bucket. Put a bubbler in it for 12 hrs and check the pH both before and after the aging. If the pH is within a couple of points before and after aging you are fine to go straight from the tap. Otherwise you'll need to get a 55 gallon drum and age the water before you use it for WC. Unstable water is the reason many people fail with Discus. The constant up and down of the pH is stressful to the fish and over time they start being unwell.

Good luck! I'm glad you have Discus now and very happy that you found us here. Nothing gives us more pleasure that seeing a new Discus keeper succeed.

[peewee1]

You need to change more water more often .Much more , much more often IMO .
15% leaves 85% of the bad stuff in the water and then it is compounded by another 15% change .
After 1 month you tank is basically 90% dirty water ? I can't think of many fish that would do well like that but discus definitely don't dig it .
Most successful discus keepers change 75% a week as a bare minimum. Many of us do that or more several times a week ..
FDBW ~ Freeze Dried Black Worms for most of us although some also feed blood worms .

Mark, Tom has a sensible approach and is correct about the water changing. Myself, I spread 100% out over 7 days. I also filter about 300 gallons per hour with moderate to heavy aeration. The freeze dry black worms are convenient for several reason. They seem to be loaded with nutrition, even better if you get the baby spinach or beef heart blends, somewhat inexpensive to buy, has good shelf life, and it floats so it does not accumulate on the bottom too rapidly. The dried black worms are a good mix with some frozen brine shrimp and some of the different pellets. Depends on what your Discus prefer. Most all seem to like the FDBW, however.

[vintageguy64]

Hey Folks, that is a lot of great info for me. WOW!!

Okay, my tank is a 180 reef ready tank. I have a sump with about 25 gallons in it. The sump(filter) uses a 900gph return pump. My actual flow rate is more likely 600gph. So that would be 100% turn over three time an hour. There is a huge amount of areation in the sump, plus a protein skimmer. I am also utilizing a 60watt UV sterilizer. This info is just as an fyi, in case it makes any difference on what I am doing.

THe amount of water change that you folks reccomend is massive. It would mean about 30-50 gallons per day. That is daunting to me. Enough so that I have to question my ability to keep discus successfully. It sound like I need to create some sort of system that stores and the pumps water into the tank. The 55 gallon drum would work. Fill it one day, use it the next, repeat. If I can find a good place to keep the 55 drum or maybe a fish tank I can do this.

I'll check my tap stability today. If it is stable, and I can use the water straight from the tap, how do I deal with the chlorine before it goes into the tank?

[LizStreithorst]

Add Prime for the full volume of the tank just before or as you are filling it. I'm lucky, I'm dealing with chlorine only so I can use sodium thiosulfate which is dirt cheap. If you have chlormines you will have to use prime.

[peewee1]

Hey Folks, that is a lot of great info for me. WOW!!

Okay, my tank is a 180 reef ready tank. I have a sump with about 25 gallons in it. The sump(filter) uses a 900gph return pump. My actual flow rate is more likely 600gph. So that would be 100% turn over three time an hour. There is a huge amount of areation in the sump, plus a protein skimmer. I am also utilizing a 60watt UV sterilizer. This info is just as an fyi, in case it makes any difference on what I am doing.

THe amount of water change that you folks reccomend is massive. It would mean about 30-50 gallons per day. That is daunting to me. Enough so that I have to question my ability to keep discus successfully. It sound like I need to create some sort of system that stores and the pumps water into the tank. The 55 gallon drum would work. Fill it one day, use it the next, repeat. If I can find a good place to keep the 55 drum or maybe a fish tank I can do this.

I'll check my tap stability today. If it is stable, and I can use the water straight from the tap, how do I deal with the chlorine before it goes into the tank?

Why not start with something smaller than 180 gallons? Seventy-five gallons perhaps? The water change would reduce to 10 to 15 gallons per day and the cost of the fish would be much less.

[LizStreithorst]

That's a good idea, peewee. When they grew larger he could move them to the 180.

[vintageguy64]

Starting smaller probably is smarter. I have the 180 that was our saltwater. I have converted it to fresh because I had it.

I have discovered a problem. I need some ideas. Denve water, becasue of the covid 19, has bumped up the ph of the tap water to 8.8. This became effective 03/01. So the use of straight tap is out. I think there are two options. First would be to figure out the correct amount of buffers to add to the current tap to get it to the desired ph. This would be a bit of a pain, but would keep the fish alive. The second, find a way to drastically reduce the need for water changes, which is likely impossible. Maybe an added canister filter, protein skimmer, or gfo reactor. Input would be greatly appreciated.

mark

[LizStreithorst]

I don't understand how that could affect Covid 19 but that's what they told you. What was your pH from the tap before? Does your water come from a surface source or a well? Did the pH drop after you tested it for stability?

I know a couple of people who raise fish in 8's. One is still a friend. I asked her if she might be able to help.

[Disgirl]

Hi Mark, it is me, Barb, Liz's friend. I keep my discus in our tap water which is in the 9's. And so hard with minerals I don't even bother testing. I raised my 8 discus, 2"ers from Hans in this tap water. I don't test water at all! I just change 50-75% every day. My discus are full grown now, 5-7", totally healthy. I have fed only high quality dry foods. The tank is 75 gal, bare bottom, with some nice wood, and a large Amazon Sword in a pot. Keep it simple, change lots of water, keep it warm and well filtered and the fish will be fine in your tap water only. Just add dechlor at each wc, I use Safe. Good luck. I use only 3 large sponge filters and 2 heaters. Remember, keep it simple.
Barb

[peewee1]

Starting smaller probably is smarter. I have the 180 that was our saltwater. I have converted it to fresh because I had it.

I have discovered a problem. I need some ideas. Denve water, becasue of the covid 19, has bumped up the ph of the tap water to 8.8. This became effective 03/01. So the use of straight tap is out. I think there are two options. First would be to figure out the correct amount of buffers to add to the current tap to get it to the desired ph. This would be a bit of a pain, but would keep the fish alive. The second, find a way to drastically reduce the need for water changes, which is likely impossible. Maybe an added canister filter, protein skimmer, or gfo reactor. Input would be greatly appreciated.

mark

Mark, if you are somewhat concerned about the pH you can lower it. I use peat moss. From the tap I am at around 7.8. Good enough but I want lower. I put a bag of peat moss in the filter system. At this time I have enough moss to drop the pH to 7.2 or 7.0. Other than peat moss you can also use activated carbon to help it along. Decrease aeration of the aquarium. Stability is important keeping in mind that fish can adapt to a pH that is slightly off their preferred preference, it is the fluctuations that causes stress and fatalities. The pH will vary during the day, Also, some driftwood will soften the water and lower the pH. You can increase CO2 levels (planted aquariums) and use a blend of RO water. as well.

[MarcusP]

I don't understand how that could affect Covid 19 but that's what they told you. What was your pH from the tap before? Does your water come from a surface source or a well? Did the pH drop after you tested it for stability?

I know a couple of people who raise fish in 8's. One is still a friend. I asked her if she might be able to help.

It was not bumped up because of COVID, it was bumped up because many have old pipes in their homes.

"Denver Water will adjust the pH level of the water it delivers to its customers as part of its long-term program to reduce the amount of lead that can leach into water from old household plumbing"

"Denver Water plans to increase its pH range to between 8.5 and 9.2, with a target of 8.8."

I use to get a stable 7.8 now I am getting around 8.0 after I age the water.

Also, greetings everyone.

[peewee1]

It was not bumped up because of COVID, it was bumped up because many have old pipes in their homes.

"Denver Water will adjust the pH level of the water it delivers to its customers as part of its long-term program to reduce the amount of lead that can leach into water from old household plumbing"

"Denver Water plans to increase its pH range to between 8.5 and 9.2, with a target of 8.8."

I use to get a stable 7.8 now I am getting around 8.0 after I age the water.

Also, greetings everyone.
I see what you did there. To be honest the Denver water was bumped up becase Elway is a doofus. Plan and simple.