Another pair of homebreds spawning.

[LizStreithorst]

Today was a great day anyway. It became my lucky day when I went down to do WC and saw the apparent pair I had pulled out of the community tank a couple of weeks in the act. They're in 22 TDS water and they are doing their thing! I'm pumped.

This is a better quality pair overall than my last homebred pair. I have my fingers crossed that they get the process right this first time.

[Yashua]

Wow Congrats Liz Good luck on the first attempt... I know how difficult that can now be so I pray everything goes right for you!

[LizStreithorst]

That is so kind of you Joshua. I didn't want to stare at them and perhaps bother them but I have a feeling that the male never "got it down". The last time I went down and glanced at them he was hiding behind the cone. Time will tell.

[danotaylor]

Cool Liz...hope he got the job done for her!

[pastry]

Pics please Liz!

[LizStreithorst]

A ton of eggs this morning...every single one white. Oh well, it's a start. Young males can be very stupid.

[Second Hand Pat]

LOL Liz, true in every species. Here's to future success with this pair. :)
Pat

[Willie]

LOL Liz, true in every species. Here's to future success with this pair. :)
Pat

A little snark from the Admin! :evilgrin: Nice going, Willie

[Second Hand Pat]

A little snark from the Admin! :evilgrin: Nice going, Willie

Couldn’t resist Willie lol

[LizStreithorst]

I can't do it any more. It's nice for someone to take gentle advantage of the opening I left. Thanks, Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

I can't do it any more. It's nice for someone to take gentle advantage of the opening I left. Thanks, Pat.

:thumbsup:

[coralbandit]

Young males can be very stupid.

:eek: I represent that remark .Fortunately I am older now and prefer the title 'foolish' ..
I got the fool part down ! :confused:

[LizStreithorst]

I've been itching to post a pic of the parents. Forgive my photograph. It's cloudy because the tank is antient and all scratched and cloudy. Every time I do a wipe down it gets better, but still...So I can't take a clear long shot of both together. I'll use words instead.

The female is somewhat smaller than I would like. I'm not crazy about the blending between the nose and the dorsal and she's rather long in the face. Her most important attribute is that she has a full pattern. Of course she's still young. As she matures the pattern will develop and will divide striations into spots. Of course, I hope a lot...

The male is my best homebred Discus. I love his shape. His pattern is way more complete than my other males.

I sure do wish somebody more knowledgeable would post with their own opinions...please. You don't have to be any kind of expert to have an opinion. I'm not any kind of fancy NADA judge and it's what I do.

[two utes]

You're on a roll Liz! Good luck with this pair

[LizStreithorst]

Second spawn yesterday afternoon. By WC time this afternoon the eggs were all white...again!!! What's up with this big fine male? Could he really be so stupid that he didn't get it the second time around. Thank God I'm stubborn as hell and always hope for the best.

I can breed Bristlenose. I can breed Rainbow Fish, I can breed Angels, I can breed Gourami's but these Discus, my passion, have me beating my head against the wall.

[danotaylor]

You are a true breeder Liz...it'll happen...I apologise for the angst immature males cause you :p

[peewee1]

Second spawn yesterday afternoon. By WC time this afternoon the eggs were all white...again!!! What's up with this big fine male? Could he really be so stupid that he didn't get it the second time around. Thank God I'm stubborn as hell and always hope for the best.

I can breed Bristlenose. I can breed Rainbow Fish, I can breed Angels, I can breed Gourami's but these Discus, my passion, have me beating my head against the wall.

Just today I moved what I think is a pair to a 20 gallon of their own. Bare bottom with only a cone. This is a suspected pair, not a proven pair. So I am coming to know your frustrations. I will keep track of you and your effort. Maybe we can both become successful. I think so.

[LizStreithorst]

Danny, you have a way of putting setback into the best light

Peewee, I wish us both success.

[LizStreithorst]

Perhaps the third time is the charm. They spawned as I was doing WC on the rest of the fish room. The male mostly hid behind the cone as mama was laying down eggs. But after a lot of encouragement, shaking and flirting from the female she urged him out and he made passes. The first were half hearted runs but he got a little better as spawning went on. I did see his little pointy talliewacker down. This time there is real hope. The male is a good fish, the female not as good, but she will do.

[fljones3]

Hopefully, they will be viable. Anticipating ...

[brewmaster15]

FINGERS CROSSED LIZ! :)

Al

[Second Hand Pat]

Fingers crossed here too Liz :)
Pat

[danotaylor]

Fins, paws, hoof's & flippers crossed here too mate :thumbsup:

[LizStreithorst]

As of 24 hrs from spawning there are sill some eggs that are not white. I'll know the truth of it in the morning. I hate to whine, but I will this once. It's so frustrating to try and try and try and try again and again and every time be disappointed that I've become used to failure. I know that I've done everything in my power to breed a line of my very own. If I'm overlooking something I don't know what it could possibly be. Perhaps tomorrow will bring good news.

[danotaylor]

Standing with you Mama Bear, lending my hope to you & your wait!

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks Danny. You are a compassionate soul. I'll know when I wake up in the morning if there are any viable eggs. If not, I'll just let them try again. It's easier on my heart to expect the worse and get the best than when I do it the other way around. Success after trying so hard is the most satisfying. Success comes or not on it's own schedule.

[peewee1]

As of 24 hrs from spawning there are sill some eggs that are not white. I'll know the truth of it in the morning. I hate to whine, but I will this once. It's so frustrating to try and try and try and try again and again and every time be disappointed that I've become used to failure. I know that I've done everything in my power to breed a line of my very own. If I'm overlooking something I don't know what it could possibly be. Perhaps tomorrow will bring good news.

I understand that you are doing something and I suspect that you have had successful spawns before but what is it exactly that you are attempting to do?

[LizStreithorst]

I want to breed my own line of very blue spotted snake skins. The grand daddy of ones I'm working with now was a domestic red spotted green. He was show quality back then. He's showing his age now and none of his daughters choose him as a mate. He's my favorite fish. The mother was a blue diamond snake skin cross who showed some spotting.

Despite all my disasters raising these spawns the small discreet spots that I love are there in the snake skins but not the turks which is strange but true. I know that my adults can't match the flashiness of the eruptions, but eruptions turn me off. They look like artificial flowers. It's just my taste but I prefer a beautiful but more understated look in my line. I want to breed good fish that are obviously made by me.

I hope that made sense. I don't expect to reach my goal but the pleasure is more in reaching for a goal than achieving it. Breeding a line is an ongoing process not a poof success kind of thing. Sometimes I just get frustrated with the slow progress.

I need to take pics of the spawn I got from a lesser quality pair than these two. They're young so no pattern yet but the shape is good on most all of them.

[peewee1]

I want to breed my own line of very blue spotted snake skins. The grand daddy of ones I'm working with now was a domestic red spotted green. He was show quality back then. He's showing his age now and none of his daughters choose him as a mate. He's my favorite fish. The mother was a blue diamond snake skin cross who showed some spotting.

Despite all my disasters raising these spawns the small discreet spots that I love are there in the snake skins but not the turks which is strange but true. I know that my adults can't match the flashiness of the eruptions, but eruptions turn me off. They look like artificial flowers. It's just my taste but I prefer a beautiful but more understated look in my line. I want to breed good fish that are obviously made by me.

I hope that made sense. I don't expect to reach my goal but the pleasure is more in reaching for a goal than achieving it. Breeding a line is an ongoing process not a poof success kind of thing. Sometimes I just get frustrated with the slow progress.

I need to take pics of the spawn I got from a lesser quality pair than these two. They're young so no pattern yet but the shape is good on most all of them.
Thank you for taking the time to explain in detail. I would like to say that at least I expect that you will reach your goal. Something that Forrest once told me about breeding and expectations. We will both agree that he knows what the heck he is talking about? Forrest said that that I should expect that it will take many trys, "..., aim on what u want them to be, it could be lots of failures on top of generations, choose the best that look like what u want then inbreed again after a generation.' '...in the end, yet, it still can be failure after generations, its a pain but yet its fun for one who love to breed discus. it is not easy to breeder..."

With regard to the turks...the Russians once had a 200 year issue with the Ottoman Empire. So they too apparently did not like the Turks. I don't like to date myself but I will say that my discus breeding began when only wilds or first generation wilds were available. I got away from it with son Little Ricky and his sometimes wonderful sister Ellie Mae come along. Thirty years later I got back to it. But what happened? A multitude of colors by the hundreds. I could not even decide which 5 fish to order from Kenny. I tell you this because I did get a Blue Scorpion because blue is what I wanted. Today that blue boy is cleaning a spot for his yellow partner. But the blue does have red spots. Not what you wanted but I suspect if I get a 50 50 fry mix that some of those BS should have red spots.

[LizStreithorst]

Well, I'm hoping that the 4th time will be the charm. The breeding was done after lights out so I never actually witnessed it, but I did see that the male was more engaged in the flirting part. When I saw the eggs when I went down this morning he was guarding them instead of hiding behind the cone. At least progress is being made.

[Pardal]

Good luck, Liz, hope you're getting it this time, I 'm right now kind of in the same situation, have a new form pair of reds that keep eating their wrigglers, just before being free swimming, as they move their wrigglers to different locations, with success and them just before becoming free swimming they disappear.

[LizStreithorst]

Have you tried putting a cage over the eggs. More often than not a cage works.

My guys are making progress but it's still no go. I had what looked like fertile eggs last night but this morning the fertile ones are gone and all I have left are the white ones.

[Pardal]

Yes, I going to give them a couple more tries before the mesh , They were actually doing good moving the wrigglers , something most upset them off.

[coralbandit]

I see this all too often !
Confusion or the thinking of an animal that will eat their own fry so others don't ?
That is why I am bandit !

[LizStreithorst]

I'd never make it as a bandit. I get too much enjoyment out of seeing it done the way the fish were born to do it.

[Pardal]

Same with me, I did the artificial a few years ago with albinos, not worthy, or enjoyable .

[LizStreithorst]

Round 5 (ding). I missed the action but when I saw them afterward the male had his tallywacker down.

[CliffsDiscus]

Liz,
What happen to the last batch, was the male not fertilizing the eggs?

Cliff

[peewee1]

Round 5 (ding). I missed the action but when I saw them afterward the male had his tallywacker down.

Gear down.

[LizStreithorst]

Liz,
What happen to the last batch, was the male not fertilizing the eggs?

Cliff

Cliff, last time they spawned during the night so I saw neither the deed nor the tallywacker. I had hope because the male showed an interesting in caring for the eggs, but they all turned white after a couple of days. This time I have much more hope because I actually saw the lowered gear. This morning he was nice and dark fanning away.

[peewee1]

Cliff, last time they spawned during the night so I saw neither the deed nor the tallywacker. I had hope because the male showed an interesting in caring for the eggs, but they all turned white after a couple of days. This time I have much more hope because I actually saw the lowered gear. This morning he was nice and dark fanning away.

Based on your experience with this particular pair I wonder how much time I want to devote to the suspected pair that I am keeping. They make all of the signals including cleaning. They have done this for months. No eggs yet so I am thinking about swapping the male with another. Although this pairing I like. How much time have you devoted to the pair that your have been posting about in this thread?

[LizStreithorst]

Just since the beginning of May. I won't quit on them any time soon, either. Especially since they're making progress each time.

Rather than giving the female another mate, try putting another male in with them. See if the competition helps get the ball rolling.

[peewee1]

Yes, I watched a You Tube video last week, some scruffy Australian guy, I think? He puts the 3rd male into the breeder. I could put that handsome bad boy in the tank. The one who was trying all the time to include himself in the process while all were in the community tank. Thanks, Liz. I will wait a bit then if nothing that is what I will do.

[LizStreithorst]

Time to wait for the bell for round 6 to ring. I think I'll cage the eggs for round 6.

[LizStreithorst]

Ding! Round 6 has begun. I just went down and saw the male making passes over his good lady's eggs. I got to thinking that it was a false alarm during the PP treatment. But when the treatment was done, I moved the sponge too close to the spawn and I upped the air since I PP eats O2. I moved the sponge away and turned down the air to it this morning and they started loving up the cone again. I was going to cage the eggs this time, but since I saw dad doing the right thing this time I think I'll give them one more try without it.

I have this weird thing about all species. If your not smart enough to love and tend to your kids and raise them to the best of your ability you're not breeding quality. I make an exception for a cage over the eggs, but that's about all. I'm just weird this way. I can't help it.

[danotaylor]

Good news Liz! Watching with anticipation :thumbsup:

[LizStreithorst]

Don't get your hopes up. I'm always disappointed when my hopes are up.

[danotaylor]

I will keep my hope in quiet check in the background ;)

[coralbandit]

I think they get it right when they want ..
I am still waiting for my pair that raised 2 great sets of fry to do more then lay and eat eggs !
I figure we might not be the only animal that needs a break from kids ..
How do birds teach their young to fly ?? Push them out of the nest ..:p Not quite eating your young but that sure puts them right out there ?
Sometimes enough is enough ..
I will also keep waiting ..When it is right it is almost magical to watch .

[LizStreithorst]

Almost all of my eggs turned white today. I think the male must not be fertile yet.

Have you considered giving your pair a good cleaning up, Tom? It might help, but may be not.

[CliffsDiscus]

Liz, maybe you can add a dither fish.

Cliff

[danotaylor]

Cliff is that intended to promote paternal and maternal instincts to defend the eggs and young? If not, what are your thoughts for suggesting that?

[LizStreithorst]

Yeah, I want to know, too. If the male isn't fertile I don't see how a dither fish would make him to suddenly become fertile. I think he just needs for his hormones to catch up with his size.

[danotaylor]

How old is the male Liz...we blokes can ramped up early but still shoot blanks, lol :confused:

[LizStreithorst]

Please don't ask me how old he is. I'm not got at how long ago. I have fish from a few spawns but judging by this guys size I guess he is about a year and a half now. He's a big fish in his prime for when people who show Discus will take a fish to a show. They say the perfect time for a fish to be shown is 2 years of age.

[coralbandit]

I am on the PP train all the time .
It is better for healthy fish then sick fish so not just something when troubles hit .
What it does to water also is almost magic .. It does so much more then most people realize , like possibly removing growth inhibiting hormones ..We know of nothing else besides water changes that remove the hormones we still can't even measure ?
I am firm believer in its regular use .I read your pp thread and have to say I have used it instead of methylene blue or H202 for hatching eggs !
It is not dangerous to fry in the proper dose ..
It is like chlorine though .Over dosing and exposure to excess is sure death .
My discus are feasting on Sterbai cory eggs regulary now and we all know they lay eggs when water is changed ..

[CliffsDiscus]

Cliff is that intended to promote paternal and maternal instincts to defend the eggs and young? If not, what are your thoughts for suggesting that?

Yes,this will force better bonding where as now the male may be just looking unless the male is just sterile. One suggestion would be to replace a
fertile male(father)back cross. Last option would be use of prolactin, I have never try this seems very risky.

Cliff

[LizStreithorst]

I'll give him a little more time. A sterile male is very unusual. This time I saw him making runs and right now he's fanning white eggs.

[LizStreithorst]

I was feeling so down and worthless that I didn't even announce round 7. But guess what? I have wigglers!!!!!!!

[danotaylor]

Yea buddy!! That's awesome :thumbsup:

[fljones3]

Great Liz!

[Shan_Evolved]

Nice Liz!!!! Pics!!

[LizStreithorst]

As soon as I cool off enough to go down to the fish room again. We're under a heat advisory but I was determined to push the mower. I got enough mowed to satisfy me but I'm dripping wet and I can't do more. The front is done, but I have a whole lot left. And when I'm done I need to put that 3 gallon back pack on and spray round up.

[peewee1]

I was feeling so down and worthless that I didn't even announce round 7. But guess what? I have wigglers!!!!!!!
wiggles are the best. They confirm that all is right with their world. You should have better luck than I have had at getting the fry from the cone to the fish.

[LizStreithorst]

That's the next hurdle to overcome. fter that it's all up to me.

[LizStreithorst]

This is the best I could do Shan. The camera had a hard time figuring out what it was supposed to focus on and it guessed wrong.

[fljones3]

Exciting Liz. May they grow up without hassles.

[LizStreithorst]

fingers crossed once again. Thanks, Frank.

[bluelagoon]

They say patience is a virtue. Nice going.

[LizStreithorst]

I think that it's more stubbornness. But to be honest I had started to think about just keeping the Discus to look at and breeding the things that don't make me feel like I'm beating my head against the a brick wall.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sweet Liz :D
Pat

[danotaylor]

Sweet Liz!! The pattern all over the face of the adults is beautiful! Great news!

[LizStreithorst]

Fewer wigglers just not. That's OK. They produced them, they will produce them again, and they will keep getting better at it.

I like the parents too, Danny. The male doesn't have the spotting I would prefer, but I can choose the best of their offspring and work with them. Who knows, the kids might surprise me. But if all they are are BSS, they are IMHO, very BLUE SS's.

[danotaylor]

SVBSS at that mate!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[two utes]

Congratulations Liz. Lovely pair....im sure their offspring will be stunning. Good luck

[LizStreithorst]

Scroll up a bit to the pic I took the other day. See those white eggs still on the cone? I thought until this morning that they were white eggs but this morning I see those white things have wiggling tails? Albinos? What else could it be? And these guys are domestics, after all, so who know's what in their genetics. They'll be free swimming soon. I turned the light to "moonlight". and turned off the over head fluorescent in the fish room. I'll lower the water level when I do WC this evening.

Now, I am not at all a fan of Albino Discus. I had Kenny import the first ones into the country for me after I saw a pic from a show in Asia. It was an Albino Blue Diamond. The most beautiful Discus I had ever seen. They were only about 2 1/2" and cost an arm and a leg. I grew them to adult size. I could see that I had both males and females but they never once showed any interest in breeding. When I was forced to move from Alabama back home to Mississippi suddenly, I sent them to George Garcia, who some of you might remember. He worked with them as well and was never able to get them to breed for him either. Ever since then I've been totally off Albinos. Still, it would be fun to see if I could raise these guys, and what they turn out looking like. I for sure won't keep them for breeding because they simply are not my cup of tea.

[CliffsDiscus]

Liz, there is probably some hidden gene that
is surfacing could be from the grandparents
some call this the Mendel generation.

I do remember George in Arizona, send him
couples orders of Discus, one was my homebred
Albinos probably over 15 years ago before
the US had them.

Cliff

[LizStreithorst]

It was a year before or a year after I got my ABD's from Kenny via who knows what wholesaler. The the weird thing is that I'm all excited about these little guys even though I'm over albino Discus.

I just looked again and I see fewer of them. One of the parents just sucked one up from somewhere and tried to spit it back on the cone. These Albino babies are much weaker than non albino fry. I imagine you raised yours artificially. Artificial is against my "religion" for some reason. It's one of my idiosyncrasies.

[peewee1]

The fellow who reintroduced me to discus by giving me a complete tank and gear one who has raised discus and angels for more that 40 years told me that when his discus spawn he does not react to it or adjust anything. What he gets in the way of next generation is what he gets. In that regard I can understand the idiosyncrasy.

[CliffsDiscus]

It was a year before or a year after I got my ABD's from Kenny via who knows what wholesaler. The the weird thing is that I'm all excited about these little guys even though I'm over albino Discus.

I just looked again and I see fewer of them. One of the parents just sucked one up from somewhere and tried to spit it back on the cone. These Albino babies are much weaker than non albino fry. I imagine you raised yours artificially. Artificial is against my "religion" for some reason. It's one of my idiosyncrasies.

Yes, most of the albino are raise artificially but when I was on vacation there were two albino pairs raising the fry in pitch dark lighting.

Cliff

[LizStreithorst]

That's pretty cool, Cliff. And good info, too. My kids are leaving the cone but won't likely leave it in earnest in the morning. Water level is low, sponge is out, bubbler on low and the only light is one from the laundry room which is very dim. I'm not going to check on them again before morning. I have done what I can. Nothing to do now but hope for the best.

[LizStreithorst]

The kids attached overnight, at least the majority of them did. There weren't that many to start with...When I turned on the room lights I saw white ones swimming around the tank, lost. I don't know if they were lost or not when the light was out. After I got through feeding I turned the lights back off. I can't see anything going on with the ambient light in the fish room.

I'm worried about WC later. I imagine I'll use buckets to disturb them less. I'm also worried about leaving the tank without a sponge and only bubbles that are turned down low. I'm going to town today and will get large white stockings to put over the sponge so I can put it back in.

I shouldn't worry so much. If this spawn fails, they'll spawned again. Since they know what to do now, I'm sure the next spawn will be bigger and the parents will do better with them.

[kev1310]

I'm worried about WC later. I imagine I'll use buckets to disturb them less. I'm also worried about leaving the tank without a sponge and only bubbles that are turned down low. I'm going to town today and will get large white stockings to put over the sponge so I can put it back in.



Great news Liz! What I usually do is remove the sponge filter through the day and put it back in overnight, I do that for 3-4 days usually until the young have fully attached and haven't had any issues. I'm not really feeding the parents for these few days anyway so there's less pollution than normal. I left it in with my current brood as the fry were already free swimming and attaching by the time I went out to them in the morning. They were all over the sponge but the parents just sat close to it and the fry kept swapping back and forth between the two.

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Kev.

[Shan_Evolved]

Cute little things. Hoping for the best

[danotaylor]

Albino fry!! That's really cool Liz. The genetic diversity is like lucky dip. Looking forward to seeing what your pair throws out, and I hope you get a good selection of stock to continue to progress your project! Blessings sis

[LizStreithorst]

Thanks, Danny. You're an :angel:

[Willie]

The kids attached overnight, at least the majority of them did. There weren't that many to start with...When I turned on the room lights I saw white ones swimming around the tank, lost. I don't know if they were lost or not when the light was out. After I got through feeding I turned the lights back off...

I've never spawned albino discus before, but experience with albino angelfish was that the fry was extremely light sensitive. Bright light would actually blind them. You had to use subdue overhead light, and put a towel over the tank otherwise, for about a week free swimming. Certainly this is not true of albino guppies or other fish, but discus and angels are more closely related. If those free swimming fry are white, then they are albinos.

Willie

[Willie]

These Albino babies are much weaker than non albino fry. I imagine you raised yours artificially. Artificial is against my "religion" for some reason. It's one of my idiosyncrasies.

I've never raised discus fry artificially. But having seen this done in Bing Seto's nursery a long time ago, it's not particularly difficult to do. Three feedings a day was sufficient.

Based on the enormous efficiency improvement, every single discus we buy from Asia is likely artificially raised.

Willie

[LizStreithorst]

Willie, I will not cater to these albinos any more than I already am. They're just an unexpected cool byproduct of what I want to breed. I just turned on the overhead so I could feed the fish lunch. The Discus breeding tank is still quite dark. I can see that (mostly) dad has fry attached, but from what little I could see they were all non-albino. I did see two white ones swimming around the front of the tank. The parents stay more to the rear of a tank.

I imagine this would be a valuable pair to some because they do produce a percentage of albinos that could be artificially raised. But they are a more valuable to me for other reasons.

[bluelagoon]

So, would these parents be both intermediate and carry the albino gene. Is "intermediate" what they would be called? The adults look beautiful.

[coralbandit]

My albino Dantums hard time me like I am a beginner !
I would cater to them a little Liz.
They are special fish in every ones eyes and knowing how discus fry are raised naturally they may need a little help .
I took a cue from Willie that he mentioned once and have red LED lights over my dantum tank and for fry if I ever get to try again .

[LizStreithorst]

They call them intermediates or recessive for the trait.

[LizStreithorst]

My moon light is pink. Would that work? It sure would be nice to get an idea what was going on in the tank.

I'm catering to them as well as I can, Tom. It's not my usual thing to lower water level and take the sponge out. I change water with buckets and that is really my usual thing because my back hates me for it. I still saw 4 little white dudes swimming close to the front of the tank after WC tonight. I think I had 8 on the cone. Either the other 4 are attached or they were eaten or they were so weak that they just died.

[LizStreithorst]

Just an update. I did the most I was willing to do helping the albino fry to survive. If I were to raise the Albinos I would have to put the pair in a closet, from what Cliff said. I could do it. I just don't think that doing that would be worth the effort to me at least now when I'm excited to get fry from a cleaned up pair that I like enough to be proud of. The fry will be my first fry home bred fry who will not be infected with parasites. I can't wait to see what I get from them. If they trow albinos what other weird gene could be hiding in them.

I saw no white babies swimming around this morning. It was killing me not to be able to see my most important fish. I turned on all the normal lights. I can't tell how many fry I have for sure but it could be as few as a dozen. Dad takes care of them mom seems to totally ignore them and they her. Surely they will spawn again and eat these. Next time they will know what they're doing and there will be more fry so I'm fine with it.

It's strange to me that these fish have been so hard to get breeding. I used to have Discus that bred easily. First time, BOOM a gazillion fry. I have no clue why these are so hard. Their father was hard but he had an excuse.

[peewee1]

I have a theory. I to used to be able to find pairs that would spawn often and always. Two years ago I put six hybrid tougher and have yet to get a spawn from them. I purchased 3 wild cross last year. Excluding the runt the remaining two males have both tried to spawn. One is trying with a Blue Scorpion but I think they are the gay, two males. But the other wild cross I put with a wild cross I got just last month and they have spawned once with fry and today I see them pecking on the flower pot which could lead to a second spawn. I suspect that the inbreeding, back breeding, and the cross breeding has some how so domesticated these fish that the spawning instinct is going away from them. Also, growth chemicals and color additives to foods play a part. Recent success was Frank. He got a nice batch of browns. Easiest to spawn in my opinion is brown and not too many generations removed from true wild parents. I am beginning to think that when breeders or sellers offer proven pairs of hybrid for $500.00 that it might be a good deal in these modern times.

[seanyuki]

Liz......how do you clean up the potential pairs and with what treatments ?


Just an update. I did the most I was willing to do helping the albino fry to survive. If I were to raise the Albinos I would have to put the pair in a closet, from what Cliff said. I could do it. I just don't think that doing that would be worth the effort to me at least now when I'm excited to get fry from a cleaned up pair that I like enough to be proud of. The fry will be my first fry home bred fry who will not be infected with parasites. I can't wait to see what I get from them. If they trow albinos what other weird gene could be hiding in them.

I saw no white babies swimming around this morning. It was killing me not to be able to see my most important fish. I turned on all the normal lights. I can't tell how many fry I have for sure but it could be as few as a dozen. Dad takes care of them mom seems to totally ignore them and they her. Surely they will spawn again and eat these. Next time they will know what they're doing and there will be more fry so I'm fine with it.

It's strange to me that these fish have been so hard to get breeding. I used to have Discus that bred easily. First time, BOOM a gazillion fry. I have no clue why these are so hard. Their father was hard but he had an excuse.

[LizStreithorst]

Metro, PP, levamisole.

[seanyuki]

Great advice Liz ....for treating round worms,Hexamita and parasites for future breeding pairs.


Metro, PP, levamisole.