Wild spawning

[peewee1]

I will start a thread and see how far it travels. The male is a Red Alenquer bought from Kenny last October. The female is an Ica Red received from Kenny 18 days ago. An Ica Red is an Alenquer with Heckel bars. First spawn with eggs was this evening. Because it is time for bed I left the pair still laying with the blue night light on overhead. The morning will tell if we still have eggs or not. I purposely brought this pair together because I wanted a wild type match and because the Red Alenquer has developed extremely long dorsal and anal fins. A ginger coloring with only several short blue striations on the head area. The Ica Red, there are photos of them on Kenny's June posts. Because I have a tank full of males, female less, I asked Kenny to send to me a beautiful lady for by boys. He obliged. So now I know that I do have a female, evidenced by the eggs I see on the pot. The male had not shown any stress bars until he began pecking and cleaning yesterday. Since he has shown the two Heckle like bars to match the female but only lighter.

At the same time I have another suspected pair who began cleaning a cone so maybe I will get a second spawn tomorrow but I wonder what triggered this in both pairs at the same time? I am hearing fireworks so maybe the fish heard them too and got excited about it. Do any of you who have multiple pairs do this? This other pair I got from Kenny as well. The female is an Albino Millennium Gold and the male is a Blue Scorpion. Both are a year older than the Alenquers. Those two are living in a community tank and spend most of their time chasing other fish away from the cone. As a result they gon't get any time to lay eggs, just clean and chase. I will keep you all posted. I do not expect to see those eggs come morning but this is a start anyway.

[peewee1]

After 24 hours from spawning the pair are taking turns tending to their eggs. There were two white eggs but now gone. A 20% water change. There appears to be around 60 eggs.

[Gillmann]

Pictures please!

[peewee1]

There are photos of the fish themselves without the eggs but I gave up trying to up load, or down load, or post them. But the good news is the eggs are still there after 30 hours. I added MG to the tank at 30 hours. I am happy with this result because I had selected this pair from the community tank as one that I would like to breed. The female I received from Kenny mid June and I placed them in a 20 gallon breeding tank 2 weeks ago. The ph was 7.6 range and KH between 50 and 75 range.

[Willie]

Exciting!

[peewee1]

Exciting!

You would know better then me, Willie, I have be trying to not get near to the tank for fear of making them nervous enough to eat those eggs. So far I have done a water change, cleaned the filter, feed them, kept the lights off but at night turned on the blue overhead so they would not be in the total dark. I place a screen to block the pair from seeing the fish in the community tank that is next to it. It makes me nervous to think that I might make the pair nervous. I put MG into the tank for two reasons. One fungus but the other because the female is scratching on the heater a lot.

[fljones3]

Exciting!!!
Just resize your photos to be under 1 meg (mine are around 500k), then upload them. They should be rotated rightly and show.


There are photos of the fish themselves without the eggs but I gave up trying to up load, or down load, or post them. But the good news is the eggs are still there after 30 hours. I added MG to the tank at 30 hours. I am happy with this result because I had selected this pair from the community tank as one that I would like to breed. The female I received from Kenny mid June and I placed them in a 20 gallon breeding tank 2 weeks ago. The ph was 7.6 range and KH between 50 and 75 range.

[peewee1]

An update. After 48 hours the eggs are still in place although the parents do not spend all of their time tending to them. Only two more turned white so by now I suspect they are fertile. I have kept this pair in an unlighted tank throughout the day with only natural light. A 25% water change today with tap water and Prime added which is usual for all of my fish, changed the filter, and added the correct dose of MG for the second day. These two discus act somewhat like parent birds. They leave the nest, forage for food, scrap with one another and then one or the other will come back to tend to the eggs for a spell. As I said this is their first spawn and I have had them paired for only two weeks so I am expecting anything at this point.

[danotaylor]

Cool Norm...I hope things progress and they catch the good parent bug...watching :thumbsup:

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Norm, wishing your good luck here also. I would not think you would need to tip-toe around these fish since they are domestics.
Pat

[peewee1]

Hi Norm, wishing your good luck here also. I would not think you would need to tip-toe around these fish since they are domestics.
Pat

Thanks, Barb. I got a slight hint of that from Willie and Liz when they mentioned water changes. I was not sure how careful I needed to be. I do have the tank filtering with an outside filter. I had read to place a sponge over the intake tube in order to keep the fry from getting sucked up. I should do that this afternoon as the eggs will be at around 70 hours by this evening. Or I could turn the filter off and continue with the 25% daily water changes.

[Larry208]

After 24 hours from spawning the pair are taking turns tending to their eggs. There were two white eggs but now gone. A 20% water change. There appears to be around 60 eggs.

Cool am following this post, seems they maybe on their way. It's always exciting to follow other people spawning post to see how they do things. Wishing you the best of luck.

[peewee1]

Update. Some where between hour 55 and hour 65 the eggs hatched. I now have wigglers. I do have a confirmed pair, first step. There are 7 or 8 white eggs that the pair has not attended to and they are both still only occasionally tending to the hatch. I turned off the filter in case some of the wigglers break loose from the pot. I may either put a sponge on the filter intake or I may go to the lfs and get one of those in tank sponge filters. This is Monday so four days to free swimming would put it about about noon Friday, I suspect. I best get to the lfs to get the bbs. I am really happy about this. As I said before I got the male from Kenny a year ago and the female three weeks ago. First spawn first time and did so far did the parents not eat anything. Here's to hoping!

[danotaylor]

That's great Norm! Watching your progress :thumbsup:

[fljones3]

Very, very, exciting Norm.
I had the same question with mine concerning sponge on the filter intake or go with a sponge filter. I used multiple sponge filters in my 75g.
Hoping attachment goes well in about 3-4 days.


Update. Some where between hour 55 and hour 65 the eggs hatched. I now have wigglers. I do have a confirmed pair, first step. There are 7 or 8 white eggs that the pair has not attended to and they are both still only occasionally tending to the hatch. I turned off the filter in case some of the wigglers break loose from the pot. I may either put a sponge on the filter intake or I may go to the lfs and get one of those in tank sponge filters. This is Monday so four days to free swimming would put it about about noon Friday, I suspect. I best get to the lfs to get the bbs. I am really happy about this. As I said before I got the male from Kenny a year ago and the female three weeks ago. First spawn first time and did so far did the parents not eat anything. Here's to hoping!

[peewee1]

Very, very, exciting Norm.
I had the same question with mine concerning sponge on the filter intake or go with a sponge filter. I used multiple sponge filters in my 75g.
Hoping attachment goes well in about 3-4 days.

Okay, thanks! Mine are in a 20 gallon so I will get a sponge filter sized for it tomorrow. The outside filter was filtering at 300 gallons per hour. I am fearful the fry would get sucked up the intake tube.

[fljones3]

Good. Mine was black and did not have a problem. You might want to go gray though.


Okay, thanks! Mine are in a 20 gallon so I will get a sponge filter sized for it tomorrow. The outside filter was filtering at 300 gallons per hour. I am fearful the fry would get sucked up the intake tube.

[Second Hand Pat]

Okay, thanks! Mine are in a 20 gallon so I will get a sponge filter sized for it tomorrow. The outside filter was filtering at 300 gallons per hour. I am fearful the fry would get sucked up the intake tube.

You could put a weir on the overflow Norm. I did that on a 10 gallon containing fry in my growout thread for the last growout challenge.
Pat

[seanyuki]

I use a box filter in the breeding tank.

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Okay, thanks! Mine are in a 20 gallon so I will get a sponge filter sized for it tomorrow. The outside filter was filtering at 300 gallons per hour. I am fearful the fry would get sucked up the intake tube.

[peewee1]

I use a box filter in the breeding tank.

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When I had 3 or 4 breeding 20 gallon I used the box filter filed with something made of spun wool and then a load of peat moss. I had thought about the box filter as well. I will see what the lfs has. Thanks for the reminder.

[CliffsDiscus]

When I had 3 or 4 breeding 20 gallon I used the box filter filed with something made of spun wool and then a load of peat moss. I had thought about the box filter as well. I will see what the lfs has. Thanks for the reminder.

I use the box filter too, with an Aqua Clear sponge and some other media. Fairly Lake Discus
has using the box since 1965.

Cliff

[peewee1]

I use the box filter too, with an Aqua Clear sponge and some other media. Fairly Lake Discus
has using the box since 1965.

Cliff

My first 12 discus came from Fairy Lake so perhaps so did my first filters. It would seem so if that was what Henry was using at the time I would have mimicked it.

[Willie]

Posting this one for peewee1.

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[Willie]

Posting another one for peewee1.

128276

[Willie]

Posting a third one for peewee1.

128277

[peewee1]

Thank you, Willie! The first photo is the Ica Red from Kenny's June shipment. The second photo is the actual Ica Red female botom of photo that I got from Kenny 3 weeks ago. The third photos is the Red Alenquer male, the one near left of the filter, that from Kenny 1 year ago. The male has a blue striation forming an "F", you can see it on his forehead.

[peewee1]

Up date. At ninety hours (or 5 hours short of 4 days) i did I WC 40%. There are around 40 wigglers. The male pays attention to them but chases the female away when she gets to near. I added a sponge filter today. I got my first ever TDS meter today. Now I know that the water temp is 81 degrees and the TDS is 285.The ph is 7.6 and the KH is 100. My tap water is 132 TDS and the community tank next the the breeding tank, although I had not yet do a water change today, is 138 TDS. The male has moved the wiggles around on the flower pot so that they are not next to each other any longer.

[Willie]

Good luck! They should be free swimming by now.

[peewee1]

Good luck! They should be free swimming by now.

It's been 115 hours, Willie. The male is still keeping the female away. There looks to be about 30 wigglers some seem to be hanging on to the flower pot by a thread so I suspect a few may cut loose pretty soon.

[seanyuki]

Are you using any night light for the breeding tank?

[peewee1]

Are you using any night light for the breeding tank?

During the day it is natural light. At night it is blue overhead light from the hood.

[peewee1]

The fry became free swimming around 125 hours from beginning. The parents were fighting too bac for the fry to attach to them so the fry were somewhat congregated near the top front left of the tank. I decided to remove the female because the male had been the one that had spent most of the time guarding the eggs. With the female gone he as returned to tending to the pot but the pot has no fry attached any longer yet they are swimming about a foot away from him so maybe they will spot him and swim over for food. I wonder if I should let nature take its course or perhaps fire up the bbs and feed them that way.

[Second Hand Pat]

You might try dimming the light over the tank. You mentioned natural light so would suggest throwing a towel over the tank.
Pat

[peewee1]

You might try dimming the light over the tank. You mentioned natural light so would suggest throwing a towel over the tank.
Pat

I will give it a try. I had turned the blue light on thinking that the fry would need light to see the male but I will turn that off and try the towel to make it darker rather than lighter. Thanks for idea.

[fljones3]

Peewee,

My fry were in a room with no natural light (other than what comes through the curtains that are closed). I have a 3-way LED des lamp that I would have at max during the day when I was working. At night, I turned it to the lowest setting and left it on all night. You mentioned natural light but how much natural light?

Frank

[CliffsDiscus]

The fry became free swimming around 125 hours from beginning. The parents were fighting too bac for the fry to attach to them so the fry were somewhat congregated near the top front left of the tank. I decided to remove the female because the male had been the one that had spent most of the time guarding the eggs. With the female gone he as returned to tending to the pot but the pot has no fry attached any longer yet they are swimming about a foot away from him so maybe they will spot him and swim over for food. I wonder if I should let nature take its course or perhaps fire up the bbs and feed them that way.
Seems like 125 hours is too soon for free swimming. Are you estimating the time from the time from laying eggs? Currently
I think the fry are eating off of their egg sac ,
it takes awhile to dissipate before free swimming. You can see the egg sac on the
fry.

Cliff

[peewee1]

Seems like 125 hours is too soon for free swimming. Are you estimating the time from the time from laying eggs? Currently
I think the fry are eating off of their egg sac ,
it takes awhile to dissipate before free swimming. You can see the egg sac on the
fry.

Cliff

The timing is correct. I put the towels over the tank and Pat suggested in order to make it darker. It's now 160 hours. I can see about 10 darting around the tank. Two are trying to feed on the male while the rest are moving around and not interested in the parent. I wonder if they are too small for brine shrimp? What are your thoughts?

[seanyuki]

The fry after five days free swimming,I feed them newly hatched baby brine shrimps.


The timing is correct. I put the towels over the tank and Pat suggested in order to make it darker. It's now 160 hours. I can see about 10 darting around the tank. Two are trying to feed on the male while the rest are moving around and not interested in the parent. I wonder if they are too small for brine shrimp? What are your thoughts?

[peewee1]

The fry after five days free swimming,I feed them newly hatched baby brine shrimps.

That would be Tuesday morning then. Thanks. I've got the tank covered with white towels and have removed the black sponge filter. I don't see more than about 10 but there could be more that I cannot see. The good news is if this first spawn do not make it I do know that I do have a confirmed pair. Those fry are fast swimmers!
!

[seanyuki]

Perhaps lower the water level in the breeding tanks and easier for the fry to locate the parents....

[peewee1]

Perhaps lower the water level in the breeding tanks and easier for the fry to locate the parents....

Thanks, Francis. All ideas help and are welcome. The spawning is at 6 days. In a way I would like to end this small spawn and let the pair start again but too this is good practice for the male with only 10 or so fry to manage will be good practice I think.

[peewee1]

Observing the process from paring to fry is an interesting one. Getting the fry to find the parent and the methods used to make that happen is puzzling. After covering the tank with towels, removing the sponge filter, leaving the blue light on overhead at night, lowering the water level none seems to motivate the fry to find the parent. I wonder how in the wild any of those fry find their parent? Since the fry swam away from the flower pot they have spent their time near the front left surface of the tank while the male hovers near the lower back right side of the tank. Neither have an interest in finding one another. Since none of these methods worked at getting the two parties together what I did this morning was to remove the towels and return the tank back to natural light from the room. It will be okay with me if this batch does not survive because it was the first attempt for this pair and I have had the female for now lest than a month. I do have a confirmed pair which in itself is an accomplishment. As soon as I don't see any more fry I will clean the tank up, turn on the filter, and put the female back into the tank and wait for them to spawn again. I do know that my tap water with Prime will allow for spawning activity and agg hatching.

KH is 100 tap
PH is 7.6 tap
TDS is 260 in the tank but 135 from the tap.
water teimp 81