Pitch Black Pair Only Produces Black Fry

[LizStreithorst]

I know that generally you get a mix of black and gold. Not with my most prolific Pitch Black pair. It would seem like this should be a good thing, but I don't know. They say something in Angelfish that I never paid attention to because I was not fond of black Angels. It was something like if the gold gene is present the offspring of the pair will be blacker. Is this the case with Rams too? I sure hope not. I'm quite fond of this pair because they always parent raise a big fine batch of kids and I can read their moods when they get in the mood to spawn. They don't hide their kids for me like my other black pair who produce both black and gold.

[smsimcik]

That sounds like a question for Tom.
You are correct about the gold gene making black angels blacker. Steve Rybicki at Angels Plus has said several times that breeding koi angels to blacks gives darker blacks. I've seen it in my breeding program of dark marbles.

[coralbandit]

The gold is supposed to help darken the black and remove the markings from the ram.
Getting all black fry is a good thing .That would mean both parents have the double dark gene .
It would seem you have locked in the black with that pair !!
Congrats ~
For what it is worth the gold gene is in all the black rams I have had .
Shahar Danziger used the gold to increase the darkness , strengthen the gene pool and remove the markings before I ever got any .
Besides the LF golds from Tom in Hawaii all my other gold rams I have came from Danziger black rams ..

[LizStreithorst]

I can't wait till these guys grow for another month so I can get an idea of exactly how black they are. When these are ready to sell should I list them as Double Dark Pitch Blacks?

[Second Hand Pat]

Sweet pair Liz, sounds like you got lucky. :)
Pat

[coralbandit]

I can't wait till these guys grow for another month so I can get an idea of exactly how black they are. When these are ready to sell should I list them as Double Dark Pitch Blacks?

I wonder if double dark is exactly what they are if they lock in ? Al reports were Marco in Africa locked in the black and coined the name Dark knight . I am not a fan of that name personally so when I got the darkest blacks finally after almost 3 years I called them Pitch Blacks . I had many customer questions on these fish and most were like " how dark are they ? " since most offered as black rams here in the US are not all that dark really ..Seemed like they named themselves Pitch Black to me and then I though about GBR and EBR and thought PBR was right in line for fish name ??
The pair I have from you spawned but the eggs went bad .They were sharing a 80g tank with my zebra plecos . I have since moved them to next door to my PBR long fin in a 10g tank ..
I will be beyond happy if they shoot anything over 50% black ..;)
The Pitch Black Ram is still highly sought after and in very short supply it seems ..
A customer of mine , long time angelfish breeder said that the original breeders of the DD angels grew the fry under 24/7 high light to make them darker ..
I don't run any of my lights 24 hours but try to get my dark rams under the strongest light I have ..I think it makes a difference ??

[LizStreithorst]

Everyone asks how black mine are, too. George Garcia seemingly spread the word that mine aren't real black. All I need to do it send them a picture for them to see the truth about mine. Mine which came from your stock are Pitch black.

I want this juvenile batch to hurry up and grow. As you know, when the blacks are young they are not totally black. The older they get the blacker they get and by the time they reach breeding age they should be pitch black. If that's the case with these, I really have lucked out.

[jeep]

These sound awesome!!! I bet they look even more awesome!!! ;)

[LizStreithorst]

Keep your fingers crossed, Brian. Mine are crossed. I want them to be good, but it will take time to find out. You are first on the list.

[coralbandit]

Curious how these guys are doing for you ?
The pair I got from you have spawned numerous times but each time the eggs have gone bad ..
Not sure why and I have tried modest modifications ..
What TDS are you breeding the rams in ?

[LizStreithorst]

The pair yours came from are on their third parent raised batch, all black. The first ones won't reach breeding age for over a month.
I'm using the same TDS as you are, I believe. TDS 20. I'm imagine I could go higher but I don't want to mess with what is working for me.

[coralbandit]

Wow 20 huh ?
I breed most guys at around 100..
I guess I should go lower then I have so far ..
Thanks Liz !;)

[LizStreithorst]

Actually I think that I should go at to 40 or 50 but I've got it going so good I'm afraid to change. I have strange water. Eggs won't hatch for anything I've tried except BN and they don't give a flip about TDS anyway. Nobody can figure out what mineral salt my water has in it to make it so weird.

[coralbandit]

I live in an area that has 19 natural mineral springs [Saratoga Springs ] .
So like you I don't really know what is actually in my water even after I use my RO .

[LizStreithorst]

Mine comes from a deep aquifer.

[pitdogg2]

One of the fish I miss seeing the most in the hobby are the Solid black non-veil tail angel fish. Around 1987 I lived in a cruddy apartment and had a 30 gal tank with one great big huge solid black angel fish. He was a brute, mean as all get out. He grew big on a diet of small cockroaches and earthworm chunks and a few Tetra bits.
I bought him from a local breeder R.I.P. who's life work after retirement was to raise great angel fish and his specialty was solid black non marble straight tail angel fish.

His son raised Discus and they all came from Bernd Degen and Schmidt-Focke. I ended up with a few later in life. All I remember is the Schmidt-Fockes #9 was what he called them. The Degen Discus I couldn't afford. 😂