Blue Moon Heckel Question

[andy77]

Hi Heckel Fans,

Does anyone know if Blue Moon Heckels are a higher grade (possibly all male or female) of Blue Face Heckel or Brilliant Blue Heckel. OR are they males AND females from a specific location where this coloration is dominant for both sexes. AND if such a biological Shangri La exists, what might be the name of this sacred river/lake?

Also, has anyone ordered Blue Moon Heckels from Wattley Discus? If so, your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


Thank You So Much, :-)
Andy

[seanyuki]

The 'Blue Moon' Heckels are only collected from the northern end of the Nhamunda River.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93112-Difference-between-the-blue-face-Heckel-and-the-Royal-moon-Heckel

[andy77]

Thank You, Francis. :)

[peewee1]

I took this from Simply Discus 1.2.12 "The 'Blue Moon' Heckels are only collected from the northern end of the Nhamunda River. They are distinctly different than 'blue face' which only indicates a solid blue cheek plate and are collected from many locations. . Nhamunda Heckels should have at the minimum blue cheek plate, solid blue foreheads and some have solid blue into the bodies. Further solid blue coverage the more 'moon' it's called and priced accordingly. They have a much brighter blue overall tone to them than any other variety of Heckels.

The rarity of the blue moon types is that out of 100s Nhamunda Heckels collected only a few will be solid blue moon, 15% will be half moons and the rest are royal blue heckels."

Also know that if these are not direct import wild that breeders for F generation fish that they could be "cross". Breeders will name a fish based on what it looks like and not what it actually is. Ask Watley if the fish are wild import or not. I myself are not partial to wild import because the age of the fish is an unknown. Hence if it is an older fish the life span will, of course, be shorter than if you are buying a fry.

[andy77]

Hi Peewee,

Thanks for posting. I found the post you site very informative. I guess nobody truly knows the answer about sexing and coloration. I suppose from the above post, it may be that all Blue Moon types (15%) are one sex while the remaining Royal Blues are comprised of both sexes.

I want to take a shot at putting together a group of Blue Heckels this Fall and want to have both sexes present. I am seeing a lot of variation on the web for what is sold as a Blue Face. I will have to ask for pics. I will probably see if John can hunt me up a group with the solid blue gill plate or greater amount of Blue.

Wattley is the only place I can find with Blue Moons. Any news on Gabe? A couple people gave him bad reviews online. Anyone here been to his place or gotten wilds from him lately? Is he willing to provide pics of the actual tank he will pull the fish from? This is a pricey fish to be taking any chances with.


Thank You So Much,
Andy

p.s. Uatuma blues from John (Snookn21) are still doin great at 3-4 wks. They are eating like pigs on beefheart, mysis and bloodworms. John will bring me up to 8 Blues with Tuesdays shipment. I had 5 small domestic discus waiting in the tank for the Blues to act as trainers for the beefheart. It seems to have worked. I am beginning to pull the small domestics as they are growing like crazy and beginning to get bossy, hee hee. :)

[seanyuki]

Contact Christine Neumeyer @ Freshwater Exotics for wild discus, she’s very knowledgeable and perhaps she could answer your questions about sexing wild discus by coloration.


https://freshwaterexotics.com/stock-list/

[andy77]

Hi Francis,

Thank You, that is good to know I will contact her. I saw that they even had Blue Moons last year. They were $300 each. That's a bit prohibitive for me putting a school together. However, their fish on the website look good and it is always good to have that resource/knowledge. MUST BUY MORE LOTTERY TICKETS - NEED SCHOOLS OF WILD DISCUS, hee hee. ;)

I found the thread here on SD that addresses Wattley Discus. Looks like there is an issue there and Santarem is no longer their supplier, bummer.


So, It appears the best options for wilds are Snookn21 on Aquabid and Christine at Freshwater Aquatics. Thank Goodness for them both. :)


Thank You So Much to Anyone Who Ever Posted Here,
Andy

[seanyuki]

Hi Francis,

Thank You, that is good to know I will contact her. I saw that they even had Blue Moons last year. They were $300 each. That's a bit prohibitive for me putting a school together. However, their fish on the website look good and it is always good to have that resource/knowledge. MUST BUY MORE LOTTERY TICKETS - NEED SCHOOLS OF WILD DISCUS, hee hee. ;)

I found the thread here on SD that addresses Wattley Discus. Looks like there is an issue there and Santarem is no longer their supplier, bummer.


So, It appears the best options for wilds are Snookn21 on Aquabid and Christine at Freshwater Aquatics. Thank Goodness for them both. :)


Thank You So Much to Anyone Who Ever Posted Here,
Andy

Some of the threads here are quite old and best to contact Vitor Hugo Quaresma at Santarem Discus if Gabe is one of his importers...best of luck to your new adventure.

[andy77]

Francis, Thank You.

One of the big things I have learned here is to not rush in. I will do my research and will monitor the situation with wild discus. Plus, I must build my fish room.

In comparison to 2018, when I started with Wilds, things are actually rather hopeful. John is back, :) I did a bit of research on Freshwater Aquatics last night and they certainly look the real deal, :). Next I'll see if I can answer the mystery of Santarem Discus in the U.S.

I will share my findings. What goes around comes around. :D


The Sun is shining this beautiful Saturday morning in Western Pa and the creeks are up a little. Soon it will be time to hit the River. Thanks to All,
Andy

[andy77]

Hi Simply Discus, ;)

So I did a little searching on Santarem Discus. I found their webpage on distributorships. A distributor contract is for 1 year, negotiated/signed each Summer. Wattley had a shipment in 2016. I have been unable to find any mention of a current distributor in the U.S.

They have a new facility in Portugal called Santarem Discus Plus. Also, Freshwater Aquatics toured/filmed their Brazilian facility in 2019 and most fish are sent to Asia for big money. The very rich in the U.S. apparently are not fishkeepers. I lived in Europe (Slovakia) for seven years and the hobby is more popular there than here. From what I saw/read especially Germany and the Czech Republic. SE Asia has even a stronger culture I believe.

So, in closing, it looks unlikely for Santarem Discus to be available in the U.S. However, we are VERY fortunate to have Snookn21 on Aquabid and Freshwater Aquatics doing a good job as well. Their fish with proper care will turn into stunners just like Santarem's already are and for a lot less money! ;)


Much Chi to You, and Dobry Den ;)
Andy

[yogi]

You might also want to do some searching about the blue moon and blue face heckels losing some of their blue over time. There should be some old threads about this. No one ever figured out the cause. Guesses range from food, water, background, lighting, etc.

[andy77]

Hi Jerry,

Yes, I have seen mention of Heckels losing their blue over time. I understand that this is a very real possibility. I am counting on my technique to maintain color

I have had success and failure with planted CO2 injected systems. I am currently keeping discus in planted (no CO2) and bare bottom tanks and gaining experience. I am planning a hybrid system with 2 - 125's plumbed together with one being a biotope(discus only) and the other being a refugium. I am hoping that higher water quality provided by the refugium and any necessary, careful water changes along with quality/live food will maintain color and possibly induce breeding in wilds. I am breeding Cherry shrimp and am going to look into breeding scuds and Daphnia. Though for the Heckel I may need a scud/Daphnia which tolerate a low pH.

I have a school of 10 Uatuma Blues which my hero Snookn21 supplied. And I have begun researching Heckels. There is still very much research and planning to do. :confused: I prefer simple and natural, though I think CO2 has potential and I have a brand new top of the line Vecton UV sterilizer sitting in a box if needed. Chemicals and meds are not for me. My goal is a mostly Natural technique/system. Trying to think outside the box and produce quality F1's. We shall see.

Thank You So Much for your response. I read a little more each day. Hee hee, this is my second trip through "From the Source: The Amazon." I am on Page 42. :)

Much Chi to Everyone and Dobry Den,
Andy

[danotaylor]

Show us pics or vid your heckels!

[andy77]

Hi Daniel

No Heckels yet, just planning. John, Snookn21, has some nice Blue Face Heckels on Aquabid, but they are large and knowing John I am sure they are LARGE. I would prefer med or med large and I am not ready anyway.

I did buy a camera but have not tried yet.

My Blues are surrounded in cardboard and shy. I am in no hurry to push them.

Thanks for the interest. :) A nice video or two is certainly a goal, just to share in exchange for all the cool ones I have seen. :)

Hee hee, being Aussie and probably younger than me you may not know the original Hawaii 50 with McGarret's sidekick Dano. Take Care in Cincy Dano. :) "Book'em Dano."


It is Spring and the geese are in love, and noisy, :)
Andy