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dspeers
09-21-2021, 05:20 PM
First of all I hate color strips
Second, I am somewhat bizarre, ask my kids.

With that known, has anyone tried to use the Hanna marine high range nitrate checker? It is a very easy 4 step test which I would think would work with fresh water with two additional steps: Take ~ 1 cup of sample and then add sufficient sea salt to target SG as measured by hygrometer. Then usual 4 steps and viola a value between 0-75. Accurate? Who knows, Hanna has not tried this and does not intend to despite my pleas to test the method with the possible outcome of accurate results and potentially massive sales.... did ask for royalties:). Anyone else tried this or have any thoughts?

LizStreithorst
09-21-2021, 06:35 PM
Never had one. My experience with Hanna meters is that you get what you pay for. If it cost enough to make you think a time or two it's a good meter. Why not call or email Hanna and get someone with a lot of experience with these Nitrate meters. BTW Don, color strips are crap and drop tests can be hard for some men to read because a good percentage of men have a degree of colorblindness they are unaware of.

dspeers
09-21-2021, 06:59 PM
Actually had an email discussion with the Hanna rep. He forwarded my question to the lab techs and indicated that they did not want to test this method and I can kinda understand why. May work with certain ions/stuff in the water but not others which would vary water source to water source. I will probably try this anyway though I don't know what I will use as a gold standard. API 40-160 is indistinguishable to me. But, I just realized that I can get stuff down below 40 with serial dilutions if required and then correlate the checker to the api test. Problem solved because if I am over 20 I need to change water anyway. I just want to be able to test periodically and accurately to ensure that my water change schedule is adequate aka nitrates < 15 just prior to water change (for adults) or 10 for juveniles if I decide to run a grow out tank. Also will need to ensure whether my source is NO3 contaminated.

Iminit
09-21-2021, 08:51 PM
The thing with api tests is you have to put the vial over the color chart. If you can see the color through the vial that ain’t it. It’s the last color you can’t see through the vial. Yes this works. Any other way your just guessing.131939131940. With the nitrate the last color not seen is 20 ppm. That’s what it is :).

dspeers
09-21-2021, 11:04 PM
Tom, thanks that's a great method. I am just constitutionally adverse to qualitative measures when a quantitative digital readout is or at least might be available.

dspeers
09-21-2021, 11:11 PM
Also I like the granularity of a digital system rather than 10,20,40. Really don't need it but vastly prefer.

pablos
09-22-2021, 12:09 AM
Hanna has dedicated devices for freshwater- HI96786
If you want something cheaper, why not to get TDS meter (device might cost 10$) and do WC based on that reading. You do WC not only to bring NO3 down but also phosphates and various different chemicals. Measuring TDS might be even better than limit reading to NO3.

Personally I don’t measure water often, just do water change as scheduled.

dspeers
09-22-2021, 08:28 AM
That's the old one, the new one HI97728, costs a little more, 300+ with reagent kit is a tad pricey.
My situation is that I will be running 5 tanks, plan was 3 but was given 2 more so of course have to use:) I am disabled and really need to minimize grunt work so will be using an APEX system to do the majority of my water changes daily but given flow restrictions anticipate the need for supplemental (probably weekly) changes and intend to use both Nitrate and TDS values to determine the volume/frequency of these changes. The cost is not really the issue as much as figuring out whether I can accurately use a simpler faster system, (less steps and time even with adding salt) see second point first post. Once I have validated the volume/frequency plan my testing frequency (assuming no evidence of stress, illness) will go way down.

Do have 1 question, at what TDS % relative to your source do you recommend changing the water?

pablos
09-22-2021, 01:29 PM
I keep Stendker’s and they have strange water requirements.
My tap water is 70ppm. After each water change I’m bumping GH with salts. After water change (weekly 60%0 I have ~220TDS and I do a water change somewhere around ~280ppm.
Discus and plants are happy about that 131942

Another tank is slightly different. I might add fertilizer and don’t change water , TDS would be on 70ppm level, as plants consume all nutrients in no time (see http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?138187-66g-riparium&highlight= ).
I guess you need to check with your specific setup as there is no golden rule

Greg-Florida
03-11-2023, 09:05 PM
The thing with api tests is you have to put the vial over the color chart. If you can see the color through the vial that ain’t it. It’s the last color you can’t see through the vial. Yes this works. Any other way your just guessing.131939131940. With the nitrate the last color not seen is 20 ppm. That’s what it is :).

Cool Tom! I use the API test kits and never saw how to read the vials the way you explained it.
I always have such a hard time reading the nitrates!

dagray
03-11-2023, 09:20 PM
The Hanna marine nitrate checker doesn't work for freshwater.

I purchased their Nitrate Photometer for fresh water. Yes it was expensive, but our municipal water has nitrate spikes

Iminit
03-11-2023, 09:28 PM
Lol. Thing is if your keeping any fish and changing 50% water weekly. You’ll never have to check nitrates. Now keeping discus and doing 2-3 weekly 50% changes nitrates never matter. Many many people never even change their water. Nitrates rise to very high numbers and never have problems with their fish. Only if they do major water changes do there fish have problems adjusting to the clean water. Also adding new fish never works. Fish will adapt to high nitrates.
That test is just a guessing game if you do it their way. Which is what they want to sell you product to remove nitrate. Pond guru really pushed this nitrate thing into a whole other range and made a fortune doing it.

Greg-Florida
03-11-2023, 09:36 PM
Lol. Thing is if your keeping any fish and changing 50% water weekly. You’ll never have to check nitrates. Now keeping discus and doing 2-3 weekly 50% changes nitrates never matter. Many many people never even change their water. Nitrates rise to very high numbers and never have problems with their fish. Only if they do major water changes do there fish have problems adjusting to the clean water. Also adding new fish never works. Fish will adapt to high nitrates.
That test is just a guessing game if you do it their way. Which is what they want to sell you product to remove nitrate. Pond guru really pushed this nitrate thing into a whole other range and made a fortune doing it.

"The thing with api tests is you have to put the vial over the color chart. If you can see the color through the vial that ain’t it. It’s the last color you can’t see through the vial."

Not just nitrates, but all vial and color chart tests. Yes, I don't have to watch for nitrates anymore but for me, still in the learning phase, if anything's out of whack at all or the fish don't seem 100%, I'm testing everything.

Question Tom: So are you doing 50% WC's 2 to 3 times per week and your nitrates are as shown in your photo at 20 ?

dspeers
03-11-2023, 10:48 PM
Dave, if you turn your tank water into marine water with saline why wouldn't the marine nitrate checker then be accurate? At ~ 63$ it is cheap enough I will probably try it and see if it is consistent with the API, but since my target will always be below 20 that is a hard correlation as differentiating the difference between those two API colors is as much art as science, maybe salifert better. Also want to see how much TDS and nitrates correlate.

Tom, I intend to change enough water that it should be a moot point, but given my personal proclivities I want to measure TDS, Nitrates, pH, gH, kH as well for fun......after all people who own old air (really oil) cooled german hot rods aren't completely rational anyway. Also good to occasionally test tap to see what you are putting in.

Iminit
03-11-2023, 11:32 PM
Don I do. But it usually happens on another site after I read so many times people testing for nitrate. That I just go through my tanks and test them all. Hoping for something different. Always the same reading. Tested gh and kh and tds a few times than I just wrote down the answers cause they never change. If you’re changing your water and have had fish for awhile you can tell when something is off. I also qt everything. Cause when something is off it’s from something new added.

Greg those pics are from 17 and not one of my best kept tanks. With all the nitrate threads going on on another site I put that pic up to let people give me their guess at how high the nitrate was. Later put up a pic of the tank. It was a planted community tank that was doing great and all the fish looked great. Next I put up the pic over the chart and asked who’s wrong :). I post that pic regularly. All of the api tests are easily read but the nitrate! Go figure?

Greg-Florida
03-12-2023, 11:10 AM
Greg those pics are from 17 and not one of my best kept tanks. With all the nitrate threads going on on another site I put that pic up to let people give me their guess at how high the nitrate was. Later put up a pic of the tank. It was a planted community tank that was doing great and all the fish looked great. Next I put up the pic over the chart and asked who’s wrong :). I post that pic regularly. All of the api tests are easily read but the nitrate! Go figure?

Great, then I'm not alone in my nitrate-reading frustrations.

I with Don here with testing, due to "personal proclivities" I need to know. I recently took my tank, tap, and softener water samples to a pool store to check TDS, but my fresh tank was partially under a salt treatment so TDS was sky high and not useful.

dagray
03-12-2023, 03:07 PM
Great, then I'm not alone in my nitrate-reading frustrations.

I with Don here with testing, due to "personal proclivities" I need to know. I recently took my tank, tap, and softener water samples to a pool store to check TDS, but my fresh tank was partially under a salt treatment so TDS was sky high and not useful.

TDS, and PH meters are super inexpensive. Ammonia meters aren't expensive either, but a good freshwater Nitrate Photometer will run a few hundred dollars.

Iminit
03-12-2023, 04:49 PM
Yes tds,ph and ammonia digital testers are pretty cheap on ebay. As to nitrate it really doesn’t matter.

dagray
03-12-2023, 09:06 PM
Yes tds,ph and ammonia digital testers are pretty cheap on ebay. As to nitrate it really doesn’t matter.
Nitrate is a huge issue here as for those on well water here the nitrate levels are unsafe, and my municipal water is at 7.43ppm from my kitchen sink

So I test for ammonia and nitrate before using my filtered tap water which tests at 4.3ppm

The unfiltered tap water was tested by a certified lab as there is a double standard as to what is acceptable levels of nitrate in Oregon with wells having an action level of 7ppm and municipal water having an action level of 10ppm.

dspeers
03-13-2023, 03:05 PM
Also those values are NO3 nitrogen, not the test strip nitrate, correct? If so, to get the values we usually refer to, miltiply NO3 nitrogen values by 4.4

Greg-Florida
03-15-2023, 01:12 PM
Yes tds,ph and ammonia digital testers are pretty cheap on ebay. As to nitrate it really doesn’t matter.

For $10 to $12 on ebay with free shipping, do you really trust the accuracy of those meters?
Digital PH Meter + TDS Meter $12.89.
I'd be concerned they would lose their accuracy over time, maybe sooner than later.

Iminit
03-15-2023, 05:08 PM
:o I’ve bought them used them left them sitting around till the batteries melted than threw them away :). I’m not big on testing.

pitdogg2
03-15-2023, 09:19 PM
The thing with api tests is you have to put the vial over the color chart. If you can see the color through the vial that ain’t it. It’s the last color you can’t see through the vial. Yes this works. Any other way your just guessing.131939131940. With the nitrate the last color not seen is 20 ppm. That’s what it is :).

I always gravitated towards those type of tests.

captainandy
03-17-2023, 07:27 AM
Low nitrates are critical for reef keeping. Especially when growing hard corals.
The only test kits reefers use is from Salifert.
Many posts on the unreliable and inaccuracy of API test kits

dspeers
03-18-2023, 10:19 AM
I was told Hanna products were also popular, not so?

Iminit
03-18-2023, 10:55 AM
Expensive not so sure popular. People do have them but not many. Even here.

dagray
03-18-2023, 11:27 AM
I figured a conversion to multiply the marine nitrate checker by 0.443 which gets close to the actual reading of nitrate from a certified lab, but is still a wild guess. The freshwater photometer for nitrate is dead on for what the certified lab tested. Yes it is more expensive, but I was needing to prove to the city that their water at the end user was all jacked up no matter what their tests at their source water was. Also often the Marine meter would read over 75ppm which is where it quits reading which meant I was unable to convert the marine reading to a freshwater reading.

Fact: I grow black bear algae in my toilet. This means the spores are in the fresh water lines. The city needs to shock their lines to kill it as they only have 0.17ppm chlorine in the tap water from my kitchen sink which is not enough to kill the algae spores.

Your method may work, but I needed precision.