Hello from across the Pond - Need all the advise possible

[Caspian]

Hello to everyone on this amazing forum

New to Discus hobby but not the aquatic world. I had a 3000lt full blown reef tank before having it all broken down due health reasons and have been away from the hobby. However as i have been missing the aquatic world and not being able to use RO water ro create salt mixes I decided to go for one for hobby which invccolved one of my favourite fishes. Discus :o

I have been reading and learning about different issues one might face keeping Discus and what's needed for optimum growth and health of these beautiful creatures.

Tank Size : 2000mm x 600mm x 700mm(H) - Opyi white front and sides, black normal float back
Sump Size: 1400mm x 400mm x 500mm(H)
External Filters: 2 x Eheim Pro 3 1200 XLT
Filter Media: 4 x Eheim Media Set pro 3 2080/2190 (https://eheim.com/en_GB/aquatics/filter-media/sets/mediasets/media-set-fuer-professionel-3-2080/2180)
Lighting: TBC


Currently in process of designing the tank with a sump.... which took a while to convince myself as I wanted an easier method with external filters :cool: and beings illy I purchased two Eheims which were on black Friday offer I know silly but now decided to have the sump which means I will be running a sum with two of these bad boys

https://eheim.com/en_GB/aquatics/technology/external-filters/professionel-3/professionel-3-1200xlt

Unfortunately the guys who I commissioned to make my tank as good as they are they do not provide any design or advsie service, so part of my quest has been drawing yeah very hard for me lol and designing how everything will work.

Please see deign below and please comment on what you think own the design. Not sure how the flow will work and how practical the sump will be as its different to a reef sump obvisouly.

the concept of the sump will be water in then through 4" filter socket, then filter wool and pads and then K1 media then filter wool and pads and then again an area similar to K1 compartment but for fluidised reactor to run Seachem Purigen and Twinstar Yotta Plus x 2 instead of UV lights and then return pump back to the tank.
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All sizes are in mm

Still need to decide on the lighting and also now sure how the flow will work , well I will have two inlet from top corners of the tank left and right but how much I can push through not sure yet it .

I would appreciate if you can advise on how you see my design and what faults I might face,

This to be continued on more info as I get more time to write.

Look forward to hearing from you

Kind Regards
Caspian

[Caspian]

Not sure If it is the right place to start this thread that will lead into completing the setup and Keeping the fish ? Please correct me if I am in the wrong place.. maybe I have to start my thread in Our Tank Journals?

[LizStreithorst]

I've been around for a long time and have come to believe that less is better with Discus except for WC. Your fancy design is way over my head, I'm afraid. All that is necessary for keeping Discus successfully is a tank, sponge filters and large daily WC with stable water. You'd be better off spending your time designing a fast and efficient way to do WC.

[Caspian]

Hi Liz

Thank you for your advise, you are right as most likely I will not be using the eheims however keep the sump with external filter, just to keep things clean in the main tank , however currently being in a rented flat I’m limited on what I can do for my own convenience therefore water change will be twice a week using tap water as I will be getting Stendker Discus this is why I thought I have a better filtration in place

[LizStreithorst]

I've had both Asian and German fish. Disease transmission is almost nil with German bred fish I have never found Stendker more resilient to poor water quality than Asian fish regardless of what Stendker says.

[Caspian]

That’s interesting

[jeep]

Welcome to SimplyDiscus! I'm in the same position as Liz in that I just use sponges and water changes. Sumps are above me but there are some members who can probably provide assistance in this area. In the future, I do plan on committing to a larger setup, possibly with a sump, so I'll watch closely...

[Caspian]

Hello Brian

Thank you for your response. Sumps are convenient to have when it comes to filtration however does not imply that you do any less water changes :) as some would hope . If I had my own place and not an apartment then like Liz said I would have concentrated on water changing method, having a separate tank with aged water and a drain valve for the tank one goes out and ones goes in. I think currently my idea of water change will be twice a week for about 50% (I do not have much of a pressure either which makes life even more difficult). I will have to put a water conditioner/primer in the tank and then open the tap water into the tank (with the right temperature ). Plan is to get grown Discus rather than small ones that's if my pocket allows just to avoid having stunted discus

[LizStreithorst]

That should woke fine for you as long as you keep your stocking level on the low side.

[jeep]

Sumps are convenient to have when it comes to filtration however does not imply that you do any less water changes :) as some would hope

It's good you understand this even before you jump in. Far too many people don't realize how much discus rely on clean water.


I think currently my idea of water change will be twice a week for about 50%

I'm not aware of the water quality in London, but if you're not planning for a water storage bin, I suggest you monitor your fish's behavior before and after a water change that large. Start smaller and adjust based upon your observations. Depending on the ph fluctuations and compressed gasses, 50% can be very stressful, especially during seasonal changes. Some people can get away with it and others cannot because everyone's water is different. Example - I can do 40% straight from tap during summer with little effect on my discus, but only 25%-30% in winter when the ground water is colder and gasses are more compressed.


Plan is to get grown Discus rather than small ones that's if my pocket allows just to avoid having stunted discus

It's also good you know what a stunted discus is and how it happens. Good decision and as you acquire more tanks to feed your new addiction then you can start with whatever size you want ;)

[Caspian]

That should woke fine for you as long as you keep your stocking level on the low side.

Hi Liz

Please elaborate on this further

[Caspian]

It's good you understand this even before you jump in. Far too many people don't realize how much discus rely on clean water.

Well unfortunately people want to have things without knowing what to do and not to do and I guess part of our human nature wanting to experience things ourselves 🙈… I have been reading a lot about discus still a lot more to learn and thanks to you and everyone on this lovely forum with all the info to go through



I'm not aware of the water quality in London, but if you're not planning for a water storage bin, I suggest you monitor your fish's behavior before and after a water change that large. Start smaller and adjust based upon your observations. Depending on the ph fluctuations and compressed gasses, 50% can be very stressful, especially during seasonal changes. Some people can get away with it and others cannot because everyone's water is different. Example - I can do 40% straight from tap during summer with little effect on my discus, but only 25%-30% in winter when the ground water is colder and gasses are more compressed.

Didn’t know about the seasonal gases , London’s water is fairly good well Thames water prover side is .. been meaning to bring home a oh monitor from work and keep on forgetting … I am
Thinking of hma filter now need to research a bit on its flow and see if I can get a tap installed under the sink( hmmm depending on the landlord ) my dad has previous ro filter was slow when I made salt water so don’t fancy that again and don’t have any reservoir for the water so it has to be a quick fix

It's also good you know what a stunted discus is and how it happens. Good decision and as you acquire more tanks to feed your new addiction then you can start with whatever size you want ;)

Lol I guess it’s better to have less and have it amazing

[Caspian]

Well unfortunately people want to have things without knowing what to do and not to do and I guess part of our human nature wanting to experience things ourselves 🙈… I have been reading a lot about discus still a lot more to learn and thanks to you and everyone on this lovely forum with all the info to go through


Didn’t know about the seasonal gases , London’s water is fairly good well Thames water prover side is .. been meaning to bring home a oh monitor from work and keep on forgetting … I am
Thinking of hma filter now need to research a bit on its flow and see if I can get a tap installed under the sink( hmmm depending on the landlord ) my dad has previous ro filter was slow when I made salt water so don’t fancy that again and don’t have any reservoir for the water so it has to be a quick fix

[Caspian]

Do you think this thread needs to moved to “our tank journal”?

[Caspian]

Question on discus

Which is more blue or becomes darker blue in Stendker discus strains

Blue diamond or Cobalt ? It’s hard to find an actual adult picture of them as there is so many variations in pictures

[LizStreithorst]

I don't know Emperial gallons and I'm to lazy to translate your tank and sump mesurements into feet and inches. I can tell you that if I were a Discus newbie like you and you had a tank that holds 100 US gallons I would start with 6 adults. If all goes well with them you could add another two without QT. Only if you buy both from a Stendker distributor.

[Iminit]

Hey Liz he’s looking at close to 200US gal. And a 75g sump. Big tank! With a large sump. Think he could get a lot more adult discus.
Caspian nice set up. I’d say the cobalts will get darker and diamonds tend to be aggressive. From Stenker I’ve got there flachen snakeskins. They too are a darker blue.

[LizStreithorst]

he can easily add more fish than I thought. I'd still start with fewer fish because it will still take large WC until the sponges get cycled for that number of fish. Since he is buying Stendkers he can add more little by little as the cycle gets established.

A tank of that size with 20 adult Discus will make a huge statement.

[jeep]

Do you think this thread needs to moved to “our tank journal”?

We can move it if you wish. Tank journals are for long continuous builds and such. If you want to keep this thread going we can certainly move it there...

[Caspian]

I don't know Emperial gallons and I'm to lazy to translate your tank and sump mesurements into feet and inches. I can tell you that if I were a Discus newbie like you and you had a tank that holds 100 US gallons I would start with 6 adults. If all goes well with them you could add another two without QT. Only if you buy both from a Stendker distributor.

I understand to be honest I would not want to loose any fish whatsoever , is not just the costs but also loosing a pet that I am considering so yes my initial Idea was around the same figure , thank you

[Caspian]

Hey Liz he’s looking at close to 200US gal. And a 75g sump. Big tank! With a large sump. Think he could get a lot more adult discus.
Caspian nice set up. I’d say the cobalts will get darker and diamonds tend to be aggressive. From Stenker I’ve got there flachen snakeskins. They too are a darker blue.


Hi Tom

Thank you :) lets see how it will all progress as theory is far away from practical sometimes. I did not think of more as I had 10 12 in my mind so its even more cool knowing this however I must outlay the costs of upkeep I mean more fish more food and more work.

What an amazing comment on the blue thank you, then I know I will have 1 or 2 cobalts , flachen snakeskins is also nice but all i searched on google I found them to be more turquoise with lovely patterns but not blue?!

Any other comments on others strains also welcomed :)

[Caspian]

This is the volume without any decode or substrate and considering the water line both in tank and in sump

Main Tank

UK Gallons 171.58

US Gallons 206.08

Litres 780

Sump

UK Gallons 36.96

US Gallons 44.39

Litres 168

[Caspian]

he can easily add more fish than I thought. I'd still start with fewer fish because it will still take large WC until the sponges get cycled for that number of fish. Since he is buying Stendkers he can add more little by little as the cycle gets established.

A tank of that size with 20 adult Discus will make a huge statement.

WOW 20! How awesome .. yes it would be an awesome view for sure but you are so right the filters must cycle first which would take a while and I still need to learn about Discus and how they behave with training my eye to see issues which would take a while... However can't make my mind up on colours as they all look just so beautiful but I really do not want to have a full rainbow!

[Caspian]

We can move it if you wish. Tank journals are for long continuous builds and such. If you want to keep this thread going we can certainly move it there...


Brian if you all lovely people keep on commenting like you have been on this thread then yes off course I would like it moved and continue the journey on here . I would love to use all the experience and knowledge everyone have on this forum to be able to setup and most importantly to be able to care for this amazing fishes as best as possible.

[Caspian]

I know the easiest and most convenient way is to have a bare bottom tank however I wanted a planted tank (aquascape)with discus so here is the compromise I am thinking to have 1/2 inch of sand on the bottom to avoid build up of bacteria and gases and then have bogwood which would enable me to have plants on it like picture below, currently I have purchased two pieces plus the stones around it and how I planned the design with a bit more plant but now thinking to add more wood.

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The plants I will use which will give list later will not require CO2 , I understand CO2 can suffocate discus or deprive the fish of oxygen so no CO2 in my design process as yet .

Wood I have purchased is Boogwood and I am thinking of purchasing another large piece of Mopani wood.

What do you guys think?

[Caspian]

with cycling I am planning to do fishless cycle with Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401947295614?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item5d95ecff7e:g:mqYAAOSwivxetqQw&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkP rKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS%252BMKizvpuEDUfX4dvRWfUzcSgEhA L2jfm5i4lumVKfwao9YvIvnIWktaoek1HpTxCu7ZbqZW4Un8iH kcqOFjdrO4Y8wsl5FQc8yb6eihAG%252FGMXEJ4RNo3e9gh0FQ 79e3Uz7eJyOct%252F4UOBnJlDBHP7fEtNfV56Blg1WchBXQjo Ody9ujCRGuhTiypmzrDV82akglBFPzEmrbVd34G1aNlysRcgc% 252ByTqZFcT0qwZ0ADMHEVjYIYUqy206lebWWleDClSPL1w7PL KBc0aMo4ZnXz2qqSeI1Fg2g7ubl8oeR08X%252BKvcAsrFKejB Kd0YQ9m0rN1nO8dpid0pbAsXBXBCGVfrKUofLbcfo5siNtPPiN UnmCVoEHCTiJ%252FryYdpGlc0KP48E6uJVngZDQ8kGZCmWARZ Gnd5hyK629hcAihEUBPmQz99Jl9zoqj97M6O6Zuk7VPhYKopML hR8ptFuFXVc3DR%252FK99hhxGZ5RZDWEJxjiSqeQAWk6DjKZX 7rkvD9td9v3bfnK8sixYtEYWcji09Xb1hZaOrd6tjXtAV9p0rq X0YVlcadpXk1n8LVTU60RtDEU%252FTYwZug30NLAjPyuynRbn OKsMU8BwKVz%252B9wUja37JsnQfKDeSmZYRO9JZGJr0X2K1ab %252FZCMgTVIZLwBsC1kRV4aefepwGBe5%252BJkNDxsvj123w CSRQD89hjzT%252BQidxuSxbBvUSk5hAoU2GAqjfEDLqCbFF0u 021De29K9KSOuNj2F1K6HeoEurF%252FaTSbPIE2w54gzQzeR2 sQUgpt4XUU5F2vovOiPu7xhdr%252FaSTTK5dKl%252FzfAw28 OOxc7IJwzA1%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM7ruJmLVf

[Caspian]

Lighting have not decided yet , have been looking at Twistar but after researching it seems the Chines do the the same so i am leaning more towards Chihiros WRGB 2

[Caspian]

Where I got my inspiration from was from one of my favourite setups

Here is the link hope you guys enjoy as much I have done and can't stop watching it every so often

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmkQdqeXmQs

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Caspian, a few considerations for sumps. Plan on how you will get it into and out of the stand. Also ensure there is enough space between the bottom of the stand and the top of the sump so you can get into and out of the sump for working purposes. Since you are working with about 200 gallons of water I would suggest about 12 discus. I had 12 wilds in my 230 gallon but I do like to give wilds plenty of space.
Pat

[Iminit]

Ok your idea are good. Yes you can have a semi planted tank with shallow substrate. I’m am doing that now. I put my plants in planters. Makes them easy to remove if meds are needed. As to lighting something I’m using is the hyggar 957 led lights. Not to expensive and fully programable. Thing with your tank is the size. It’s an odd size. Will be very hard to find one light to cover so you will need 2. For 2 you’ll need a brace in the middle. I think your leant is around 78” so probably need 2 36” lights.
Your sump is only 40g? Is that 40g of water in a 75g tank? Or a 40g tank as the sump?
For your gravel/sand substrate black will show your discus darker and may pepper pigeon bloods. White will be brighter. Next sand is hard to clean where a fine gravel will be easier. When vacuuming less gravel than sand will be lost.

Here’s some pics of my flachen snakeskins and one of my tanks.132295132296132297

[Caspian]

Hi Caspian, a few considerations for sumps. Plan on how you will get it into and out of the stand. Also ensure there is enough space between the bottom of the stand and the top of the sump so you can get into and out of the sump for working purposes. Since you are working with about 200 gallons of water I would suggest about 12 discus. I had 12 wilds in my 230 gallon but I do like to give wilds plenty of space.
Pat

Hi Pat

Thank you for advise, you are totally right. My stand will be 90cm high (35inches) and sump is 2/3 of the stand width wise which leaves me a room in front to use.

Discuss numbers, well I have been thinking 10 to 12 since day one just cant make my mind up with colours lol .. Question is what size would be considered adults and why there is so many variation in prices well this is what I am seeing in UK even though they are Stendker :confused:

[Caspian]

Ok your idea are good. Yes you can have a semi planted tank with shallow substrate. I’m am doing that now. I put my plants in planters. Makes them easy to remove if meds are needed. As to lighting something I’m using is the hyggar 957 led lights. Not to expensive and fully programable. Thing with your tank is the size. It’s an odd size. Will be very hard to find one light to cover so you will need 2. For 2 you’ll need a brace in the middle. I think your leant is around 78” so probably need 2 36” lights.
Your sump is only 40g? Is that 40g of water in a 75g tank? Or a 40g tank as the sump?
For your gravel/sand substrate black will show your discus darker and may pepper pigeon bloods. White will be brighter. Next sand is hard to clean where a fine gravel will be easier. When vacuuming less gravel than sand will be lost.

Here’s some pics of my flachen snakeskins and one of my tanks.132295132296Hi 132297

Hi Tom

Thank you for the heads up, I do like your Flachen Snakeskin blue with awesome patterns. Mate you have a very nice setup I love it, I love you aquascape too. Do you run CO2? do you feed your plant fertilisers?

I never knew about Hyggar thank you its very cool actually I can have 2 or 4 smaller ones and yes tank is an awkward size lol, looking at your lights I also came across these JOYHILL LED Full Spectrum Aquarium Lights, what do you think of them?

Sump is bigger but 40gal is the actual water volume, because water will be sitting 11.8 inches high

How often do you clean your gravel, does look clean I must say. I know what you mean by loosing sand but I really really want to have white sand and I know it will be hard for upkeep

[Caspian]

Question for everyone?

How do most keep their PH steady? What PH they run their tank at? PH rises as night so realistically you do need Co2 to regulate and maintain a balance of PH right?

I have been reading on water quality issues and have started to think of HMA filtering well see If I can get the landlord to agree to install a connection under the sink and I can connect one of these (https://www.finerfilters.co.uk/3-stage-10-hma-heavy-metal-reduction-water-filter-system-hozelock.html)

There are people who add a 4th canister with Nitrate remover but not sure how good this is?

Let me know what you think and what you do on your tanks please

[Iminit]

I clean the gravel at every water change. It does collect waste. So that’s twice a week.
As for ph mine is at 7.0. I don’t use co2 or worry about a ph rise at night. When changing water you won’t have to worry about nitrate.

[Caspian]

I clean the gravel at every water change. It does collect waste. So that’s twice a week.
As for ph mine is at 7.0. I don’t use co2 or worry about a ph rise at night. When changing water you won’t have to worry about nitrate.

Thank you, I guess I have to the gravel/sand cleaning on every water change too. Nitrate will be low with keeping the filters clean and water changes of course however I meant the nitrate that comes through the tap water which is around 10ppm

[Iminit]

Nitrate in the tap water can’t be fixed without ro. But 10ppm isn’t bad and with the water changes you should be fine.

[Caspian]

Nitrate in the tap water can’t be fixed without ro. But 10ppm isn’t bad and with the water changes you should be fine.

This is true however people in UK use a product called C3 Nitrate remover (https://countrysideaquaticsfiltration.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/C3-Nitrate-Remover-technical-information.pdf) which some use in their tanks and some use in canister after a HMA Filter. I have seem some people use it in fluidised reactors and have been getting awesome results

[Iminit]

For me I don’t want to add anything into the tank but water. With 10ppm you’ll be fine. Why waste the money on something you don’t need. Nitrate chasing is overrated :).

[Caspian]

For me I don’t want to add anything into the tank but water. With 10ppm you’ll be fine. Why waste the money on something you don’t need. Nitrate chasing is overrated :).

:angry: sorry this is a habit from having a reef tank, I had to have near zero Nitrate to get the colours

[Caspian]

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[LizStreithorst]

We don't have that nitrate removal product in this country as far as I know. The nitrate in my tap water is 0 a problem that I've not had to face. If Discus people swear by it I'd try it. To me a nitrate level of 10 is too much. People say it's OK but I keep mine at 5. If it's not at least 5 it means that the tank is not cycled.

Caspian, I think that you will be a fun member because you are figuring out how to keep the fish happy before you dive in head long. I get depressed people just going for Discus thinking that they are just like other fish. Their first post is always in the disease section. I like watching people figured out what is necessary before they get the fish.

I can't imagine why the price of Stendkers of the same size varies so much. We have only one Stendker dealer in this country. I do know that most every dealer of Asian imports that sell Discus cheap send the worst quality fish you can imagine. I was a mod on BIDKA back years ago before BIDKA changed has. There was a guy there named Mark who was highly though of. I don't remember the name of his business.

[Caspian]

We don't have that nitrate removal product in this country as far as I know. The nitrate in my tap water is 0 a problem that I've not had to face. If Discus people swear by it I'd try it. To me a nitrate level of 10 is too much. People say it's OK but I keep mine at 5. If it's not at least 5 it means that the tank is not cycled.

Caspian, I think that you will be a fun member because you are figuring out how to keep the fish happy before you dive in head long. I get depressed people just going for Discus thinking that they are just like other fish. Their first post is always in the disease section. I like watching people figured out what is necessary before they get the fish.

I can't imagine why the price of Stendkers of the same size varies so much. We have only one Stendker dealer in this country. I do know that most every dealer of Asian imports that sell Discus cheap send the worst quality fish you can imagine. I was a mod on BIDKA back years ago before BIDKA changed has. There was a guy there named Mark who was highly though of. I don't remember the name of his business.

Hi

Thank you I can only try, Its only a real hobby when you learn everything there is about it. However with nature you might think you know it all but still it is not enough!

I do believe Nitrate is important to the health of the fish and plants specially if plan is to keep them up to their maximum life span. You are incredibly lucky not having Nitrate in your tap water, we do here which is annoying because without filtration you be adding hence the shock to the system and as resilient the fish might be it is a stock on every water change. I am planning to use a HMA filter if I get the tap connections done (Landlord is just being funny even though I offered to pay and purchased all the fittings )

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[Caspian]

We don't have that nitrate removal product in this country as far as I know. The nitrate in my tap water is 0 a problem that I've not had to face. If Discus people swear by it I'd try it. To me a nitrate level of 10 is too much. People say it's OK but I keep mine at 5. If it's not at least 5 it means that the tank is not cycled.

Caspian, I think that you will be a fun member because you are figuring out how to keep the fish happy before you dive in head long. I get depressed people just going for Discus thinking that they are just like other fish. Their first post is always in the disease section. I like watching people figured out what is necessary before they get the fish.

I can't imagine why the price of Stendkers of the same size varies so much. We have only one Stendker dealer in this country. I do know that most every dealer of Asian imports that sell Discus cheap send the worst quality fish you can imagine. I was a mod on BIDKA back years ago before BIDKA changed has. There was a guy there named Mark who was highly though of. I don't remember the name of his business.


I will post results or my findings as we go along. I believe it will work and plan to have it in a fluidised reactor , also planning to send email to the manufacturer in regards to fluidised reactor , if it works then I can easily feed the fish heavily. We do have Polyfilters that do more or less the same but C3 can be regenerated. I tried many methods on my reef tank to keep the nitrates near zero to keep all that fish with hard corals was a challenge with all being successful as its based on feeding beneficial bacteria. The best was having a nitrate reactor and feeding it vodka ;) but not sure how it will work on freshwater!

132313

Apparently HMA filters all heavy metals, chlorine and chloramines as well as balances the PH ( need to find out what balancing PH means here lol)

Furthermore I will be using Sachem Purigen to clear the water column of any organic material and keep water clear and I see a lot of positive reviews on this product and helps specially when we can not use Carbon on our discus tanks. Purigen will also be fluidised but not sure if I can mix with the nitrate remover!

[Caspian]

I am still searching on PH balance on Discus tank and its proving hard to find the right info. in the nature they do not have PH fluctuation unless the have rain water which also promotes breeding that goes along with slight temp change however surely in our tanks we are faced with PH fluctuation, not so much with bare bottom tanks whom don't have any plants but planted tanks with substrate there will be, bacteria feed on oxygen that effects ph, plants photosynthesis effect the PH and also aeration rises the PH and then you have Drift wood in a big tank there would be a big chunk that would lower the PH. Hence why I think there must be a CO2 addition with controller to keep the PH in a balance level which I would keep it at 7 or 7.2

Need to find out what it means with HMA balancing PH as tap water does not have a balanced PH and fluctuate time to time and as recently learned due to winter also.

most of you would not have much issue as you do age your waters or even using a well water helps out immensely.