Can someone tell me what is going on in my tank?

[Tinzo]

Hi guys,
I'm new to discus and have them more then 2 months now.
The ting is my checkerboard has started hiding since 3 days ago.
I knew he is the bottom fish of the order so i took out the fish that was bully him and placed it in my quarantine tank. Situation didn't change. See video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRgs0NiZE1A

Then i placed bully back next day (orange fish). Some short fighting went on and all was sorted out quickly. This is him now.
He eats very well and i don't think he is sick. What is going on? Is this normal for packing order? He swims as low as possible most of the time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oYOA4XHaCk

[Iminit]

Now it just looks like low fish in pecking order. Great looking tank and fish. If the checkerboard starts to look bad and not eating it will need to be moved. So if don’t already set up a qt tank.

[Tinzo]

Now it just looks like low fish in pecking order. Great looking tank and fish. If the checkerboard starts to look bad and not eating it will need to be moved. So if don’t already set up a qt tank.

Thank you they grow very fast.
He is right now the slowest fish in the tank. I made some closeup pics in case anyone here sees something odd.

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[Tinzo]

also i caught him twitching. like he has a itch. Might be getting used to bacteria. The food is gone in 10 sec max. And it's a lot of stendker good haert.

[Tinzo]

Guys he is back hiding again. But now he doesn't eat anymore. He did come out to feed but didn't touch the food. The bully pushed him back to his hole again.
What should i do? Sell the bully? i'm taking him out again.

The only time he does comes out is when they sleep as a group.

[Iminit]

Remove the bully and the next in the pecking becomes the bully. Best to move the checkerboard and feed separately till it strong than reintroduced. This could take a month.

[Tinzo]

Remove the bully and the next in the pecking becomes the bully. Best to move the checkerboard and feed separately till it strong than reintroduced. This could take a month.

Thanks for the help.
Am i not risking that the chekerboard stops eating? Not being in a school?
Water temp is 30c by the way. 86f. Not sure if that makes a difference in aggression. Stendker dealer told me to keep it at that temp because of the type of food they digest.
Oh and i have some fish in qt tank waiting to go to display tank for couple of weeks now. No sickness has shown yet. Can i place them together?
He is swimming freely again (out of hiding but staying in one spot) but not suer if he wants to eat later today. Part of me says this is the pecking order happening and just wait it out. But him not eating is worrying me.

[Iminit]

With my Stenker discus I found there was always one or 2 dropping out. When I removed them most came back to saying and growing. Those I left ended up stunted.

[Tinzo]

With my Stenker discus I found there was always one or 2 dropping out. When I removed them most came back to saying and growing. Those I left ended up stunted.

Thanks buddy,
So for my understanding you can keep a discus alone in a tank for a long period of time without it dying?
Until it has grown mature i mean.

[Iminit]

It was usually around a month. When I put them back in it was like a new fish to the tank. It seems like when buying juvenile discus some always fall behind. Yes in a tank by themselves they will be fine and hopefully eat more. I’ve had 14 Stendker discus. Bought first as 6. This group one fell behind and I left it in the smaller tank for around a month. It was fine when put in to the main tank. It did take longer to grow out. About 6months longer. Next group was 8. 4 of these had to be moved at different times. 2 went on to grow fine but 2 just never grew and one of them did die. There is a theory that juveniles produce hormones that will make others stop eating. So once removed into a clean tank they do get better.

[Tinzo]

It was usually around a month. When I put them back in it was like a new fish to the tank. It seems like when buying juvenile discus some always fall behind. Yes in a tank by themselves they will be fine and hopefully eat more. I’ve had 14 Stendker discus. Bought first as 6. This group one fell behind and I left it in the smaller tank for around a month. It was fine when put in to the main tank. It did take longer to grow out. About 6months longer. Next group was 8. 4 of these had to be moved at different times. 2 went on to grow fine but 2 just never grew and one of them did die. There is a theory that juveniles produce hormones that will make others stop eating. So once removed into a clean tank they do get better.
Thanks, My checkerbord is 4 inches so not sure if it still is a juvenile. Small eye tho. How a smaller fish can bully him is beyond me. I give him a week in totaal and i remove him if still not eating. He do comes out when it's feeding time but is scared to eat. He makes the shaking movement of male changing each other. Saw this with my angle fish as well. I'll do the other day water change and see if anything improves.

[Iminit]

Yes 4” is still young. If feeding fdbw cubes try holding the cube in front of him. May just need some help. I’ve just got a 5.5” juvenile that wasn’t eating till I started doing that132656

[Tinzo]

Yes 4” is still young. If feeding fdbw cubes try holding the cube in front of him. May just need some help. I’ve just got a 5.5” juvenile that wasn’t eating till I started doing that132656

I think he would swim backwards if i do that. Funny thing is that i hand fed them in the beginning. They loved it. Sometimes biting my hand lol. I'll try it today again. Beautiful Yellow discus by the way. Oh and i have done 2x 30% water change in the past 2 days. And i'll do it tomorrow again. In the beginning he was eating wild and attacking that food crazy until he got bullied. Now they are all friends again and no one attacking anyone. But then again they all look down after the water changes. Got a bit scared i think and swimming low. Can't crack this mystery. Is it maybe my angle fish? I see him sometimes attacking them once a day. :huh:

[Iminit]

That’s pretty much what it is. A mystery! For me removal worked. But for me there was no bullying. They would just stop eating. Like something was in the water was not agreeing with them. Put in another tank they all started eating again. All but one survived. Thing we s that checkerboard is a really nice looking fish. I’d want to keep it as happy as I can.

[Tinzo]

That’s pretty much what it is. A mystery! For me removal worked. But for me there was no bullying. They would just stop eating. Like something was in the water was not agreeing with them. Put in another tank they all started eating again. All but one survived. Thing we s that checkerboard is a really nice looking fish. I’d want to keep it as happy as I can.
I'll remove him tomorrow. I just got brine shrimps but I'm pretty sure he won't eat. The thing is I have a blue ram and some Harley Quinns in qt tank. They are 2 weeks there now not showing any illness. A bit scared to put him in there with them.

[Tinzo]

Bought a divider from Amazon. Gonna install it today. Checkerboard and the melon gonna stay together. They eat slow or not at all. I hope this improves there eating. If not I'll separate them to another thank.

[Tinzo]

I tried everything. From increasing temperature to soaking the food in garlic guard. I give up. Now just waiting till it's dead and get another checkerboard. Other 7 discus are healthy and eating well.
Short video of how it's now
https://youtu.be/2s1mMGcqbkg

[Iminit]

Tough decision. Do you have other tanks? If it’s hormones it’s still in the same water. Separate tank is new water with nothing from that tank in it. When keeping discus you will need a second tank. For me it’s required. Being I have 2 discus tanks I’ve got 2 backup tanks. Cheaper to buy them used. Any new fish bought should be quarantined for a month and than one of your original discus introduced to the qt tank. They should be together for at least 2 weeks to make sure there is no chance of cross contamination. Next when medicating a sick fish I use a 5g. Less meds. It amazing how much the meds cost.

[Rick S]

I know you said you raised the temperature but you didn't say to what. I think that fish is too beautiful to give up on. This is what I would try. Isolate him to his own tank and raise the temperature to 94 degrees F. Ad salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. Don't worry he can handle the high temps.

Good Luck Tinoush and keep us posted.

[Tinzo]

I know you said you raised the temperature but you didn't say to what. I think that fish is too beautiful to give up on. This is what I would try. Isolate him to his own tank and raise the temperature to 94 degrees F. Ad salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons. Don't worry he can handle the high temps.

Good Luck Tinoush and keep us posted.

Thanks for the replay guys,
Yes i got a 30 gallon qt tank with fish in it waiting there six weeks (3 more weeks till 6 weeks). I removed the divider today because it was not helping and now another one is not eating well as well. Big numbers should help i thought. Tank temp is 86f al the time.
I'll separate him to the 30 gallon then. I have a feeling that there fighting for mating. 2 of them are showing strips time to time. Very difficult fish i have have to admit. If there were sick i would understand. but they are not. Not one sign of sickness. Just bully and bully all the time.

[Tinzo]

Buy the way my heater can go up to 32c max. how do i get the temp till 34,5c? 94f

[Tinzo]

Ok guys i see the problem getting worse. The bully has claimed a corner and is after everyone who is below him in the rank. My blue diamond has pretty much stopped eating as well.
Checkerboard is not siting in one corner anymore because he can't. Bully goes after him.

Meanwhile i found this topic.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?122640-New-Discus-Bullied/page2

I think it has very useful info. Till now i did 2 water changes a week. If the "hormones in water" case is correct changing the water every 2 days should reduce this. 50% wc every time. I have started this from today.
I also totally changed the tank scape and moved everything. they are confused and don't fight at the moment. I can't decide move the bully or the checkerboard that is not eating. Blue diamond is the next target if i remove the checkerboard.

P.s. can angle fish provoke aggression? He likes to charge to other discus time to time.
Bully is not the top fish of the rank. I am going to remove him first. To see how thing goes. Last time i did that chaeckerbord start to eat again

[Tinzo]

Guys please someone tell me anything. It's very quiet here.

I ended up separating the sick fish because i have another one not eating as well.
I have put some calming medicine in the qt tank and deworming medicine.

This morning i woke up and saw these stuff all over the internal filter.
I saw him last night spitting some white stuff looking like a pease of fat. Please tell me that this was it and these are worms. :cry: He is much more happy now and swimming around like never before but not eating yet.
If these are parasites, its coming form angle fish i keep and fed with bloodworm before buying discus.

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[Iminit]

Well the fish hasn’t eaten in awhile so with no food in it but minerals still going through it that could be the reason for white poo. If it’s looking better that’s a great sign. How warm is the water? Discus will eat in hotter water. So keep the temp at 86-88. Hopefully that will get him eating.

[Tinzo]

Well the fish hasn’t eaten in awhile so with no food in it but minerals still going through it that could be the reason for white poo. If it’s looking better that’s a great sign. How warm is the water? Discus will eat in hotter water. So keep the temp at 86-88. Hopefully that will get him eating.

These are 3mm/0,12inches thick, poo can be that thick? and it's empty from inside like a tube. water is 84f at the moment. Any higher and the dewormer won't work. I also send these picture to the stendker dealer where i bought the cure form yesterday and he told me that we did the right diagnostic. These are worms. So now is the question to rise the temp tomorrow or keep following the medicine description of 6 days and 80% water change.

Thanks for the help buddy.

[Tinzo]

some video's as well,

this is before medication, staying on one spot whole day long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngukJeQp6uI

And this is after medication.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxVyyyjmfNY

[Iminit]

Stick with what the meds recomend. After treatment raise temp. Since they think they’re worms I would deworm the other tank too. If he’s got worms so do the others! I don’t think the worms were the problem. I (just me) think it was hormones in the water. I too had instant results with putting into qt tank. Most started eating within the day all eating within 2.

[Tinzo]

I have started medication on the big tank today. Today he saw me and was acting like day one. Going up and down the tank like a puppy. Don't think that he ate the brine shrimps i gave him. I'll rise the temp on Tuesday when medication is done. Got a Eheim jager heater that can go up to 34c. I'll keep you updated. Thank you for the help.

[Tinzo]

Stick with what the meds recomend. After treatment raise temp. Since they think they’re worms I would deworm the other tank too. If he’s got worms so do the others! I don’t think the worms were the problem. I (just me) think it was hormones in the water. I too had instant results with putting into qt tank. Most started eating within the day all eating within 2.
Wanted to thank you for the help buddy. He is eating again and feels very good. After medication i kept him in 94f temp and after couple of days feeding him brine shrimps he ate stendker good heart for the very first time again. I couldn't be more happy. I have another difficult eater but everything will be fine. I have learned so much in last week's. Thank you again.

[RogueDiscus]

Any thought of removing the CB instead of the bully? The not eating caught my attention. 2 months is not that long. It may be fighting something. If you have others in the QT tank, then it's not really a hospital or QT tank. If he really looks to be struggling with the group, I would remove him to a separate tank, keep the water really clean, watch closely and see if he'll start eating. Watch for white poop or other issues that might suggest internal parasites. Your second tank may be OK if necessary.
Steve

[Tinzo]

Any thought of removing the CB instead of the bully? The not eating caught my attention. 2 months is not that long. It may be fighting something. If you have others in the QT tank, then it's not really a hospital or QT tank. If he really looks to be struggling with the group, I would remove him to a separate tank, keep the water really clean, watch closely and see if he'll start eating. Watch for white poop or other issues that might suggest internal parasites. Your second tank may be OK if necessary.
Steve

Thanks for the help buddy. He is eating for 4 days now. Also he is alone in qt tank. Im planning to keep him there for a month then place him back. When he is gotten strong. The bully is calm now too.

[RogueDiscus]

Somehow I missed the second page of this thread. Glad things are improving.

[Tinzo]

Checkerboard is back to display tank today. Not only he is the most hungry fish of them all, he has become the bully as well. XD

[Iminit]

:) :) :)!! Glad to hear!