How long for pecking order to settle?

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

I went from 15 fish to 7 when I took my least favorite fish to the LFS last week. I kept the 6 largest/best fish and the runt, because my wife thinks "he's so cute and little" :D

I expected the pecking order to take a day or two to re-establish, but a week later there is still bullying going on. I know 6 is the minimum number of discus to keep in a tank, so at 7 I figured I would be fine, but 2 of my favorites fish are definitely getting bullied a week later. My for sure going-to-breed male had some nip marks this morning and is showing stress bars, so I definitely need to do something.

7 4-4.5" altum floras in a 75 gallon tank.

Any suggestions? Not in a position to buy more fish right now. Might add some driftwood to break up the line of sight as there are just sponge filters and heaters in there now.

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

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Here he is. Excuse the blurry pic, my phone camera is broken. You can see the stress bars as well as the places where he was nipped. This is my favorite guy!

[seanyuki]

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[GalaxyKoiBoi]

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Thank you! Haven't figured out how to rotate pics properly.

[seanyuki]

This may help you in posting photos in forums.

This is Portrait:

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This is Landscape:

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https://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?159923-Why-are-my-pictures-posting-upside-down-or-sideways-on-the-forum&

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

I think it's my phone, it's an old POS. Photos taken as portraits upload as landscapes and vice versa. Appreciate it however!

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

Any suggestions? I put the largest fish (the bully) behind a divider this morning to see how that would affect the rest of the group. So far it seems to have helped the aggression somewhat, but really it's too early to tell.

[LizStreithorst]

I wish I knew, Josh. Why not try putting him in with my little ones just to see what happens. He'll be entering the a territory owned by strange (to him) fish. Who knows? It might work.

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

I wish I knew, Josh. Why not try putting him in with my little ones just to see what happens. He'll be entering the a territory owned by strange (to him) fish. Who knows? It might work.

Might try that if the situation doesn't improve. The two fish that were getting bullied the most have lightened up since this morning. The bully is sulking behind the divider but at least he's not terrorizing the rest of my potential breeders. He may be a freebie here soon if he can't get along after his time out. He doesn't have any of the qualities I'm looking for in my breeders except for size, so if he can't behave I will give him away to a member here if they will have him.

Hope your fish who bonked her head gets better, Liz. She is a beauty. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Willie]

These bars are light enough that I don't think that fish is under stress. Those bars will disappear once they reach maturity.

Discus are cichlids and bullying is part of their nature. Every time you add or remove a fish, the process of reestablishing a pecking order will recur. Then there's that runt. Many of them will actually peck at larger fish...

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

Yes, I understand aggressive cichlid nature well. I used to keep African cichlids and those guys would beat the crap out of each other. I am just concerned that a week after removing the other fish that there's moderately more aggression and my favorite fish is losing scales and showing stress bars when they were almost completely gone before this.

But, appreciate the insight. Will continue to monitor the tank.

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

Well, after a few days in timeout I let the bully out with the rest of the fish. Things were fine for a bit, but hours later he started harassing my favorite fish again. That fish started hiding and went dark, and wouldn't swallow pellets when I fed them this afternoon. Worried that the bullying is causing him too much stress and will make him stop eating/get sick, so I put him behind the divider for now. Need to come up with a better solution than separating problem fish every few days.

[snxtif]

Hiya,

I (and prolly most others in the hobby) have had the same problem.
Things are worse when the one you are rooting for aren’t the strongest (physically/mentally, mild temperament rather than bully).

Same as human, all discus are different, some are born psychopathic. I’ve had 4” that rammed into other 6”+ all over the tank and try to keep his territory 3’ out of a 5’ tank. I tried every thing back then and finally got to give up on him and relocated.

Lately when i raise a new batch, i just heck it and make a semi-permanent divider (build a cage in the glass prison, how inhumane i know xD /jk). then i just leave it like that. If there is the obvious bully i’ll put it in the smaller side, then if there’s another bully arise to alpha then he just goes to the bully side, rinse and repeat and adjust the size of areas between sides.
Imo, this only matters til they reach adulthood and i just want to make sure that “the favorite one” is not stunt due to bullying.

[GalaxyKoiBoi]

Great advice! That is essentially what I've been doing too. The bully is back behind the divider and all the other fish seem to be doing better. There is a "mild" bully who has risen to the top of the pecking order, but I'm keeping an eye on her and so far it's not nearly as bad.

Another benefit of separating the bully is that the rest of the fish can eat in peace. He is such an aggressive eater that he will eat until he is almost bloated before some of the other fish can get more than a bite or two. Having him sectioned off allows me to control exactly how much he is eating and allows the rest of the fish, especially the more timid ones, more time to eat.

[snxtif]

Pecking will always happen especially during juvenile stage.
It's all good if it's "sparring".
Just make sure it does not get out of hand and some just get too stressed and stopped eating.

The worst kind of bully is the one that try to keep 2/3 of the tank as territory and doesn't let other eat the food even s/he is too full to eat and let the food rot.