Discus Not Eating - Newbie Tank Manager

[Greg-Florida]

Hello,
I found myself unexpectedly caring for my son's Discus tank 3 months ago. I have some aquarium experience but am a novice and know little about Discus.

My smallest Discus is not eating. He gets excited and comes to the top of the tank with the others when I approach and looks hungry, but when food is surrounding him, he only takes 1-2 bites every couple days that I can tell for about 3-4 weeks now. Everyone else is eating well, as normal.

My LFS said to feed him some live brine shrimp, but he only nibbled on 1 or 2. I have soaked the food in garlic guard a few times with no results. I've only tried the brine shrimp for 2 meals on the same day.

It's hard to tell in the pictures but he looks scrawny. He's not lethargic, he looks fine other than his skinniness. It does look like he's lost weight.
He's the smallest of the 5 Discus and he does not have to compete for food. I do not see him being bullied and all fish are healthy.

Tank is 55 gallon with Fluval 307 and I feed them probably about 8 different kinds of food, pellets, flakes, frozen, vibra bites...
In the group of 5 picture below, that was taken a couple months ago when he was fatter. And the Discus on the far right is now bluer.
We've had all these Discus about 3 years.
I'm very concerned about where he's headed! Looking for help!
134497 134498 134499 134500

[Greg-Florida]

He's now hiding in the bottom of the tank behind the wood. Have never seen him do that.
What about these black specs on his face, are these indicative of anything?

[Greg-Florida]

I meant 60 gallon tank, Not 55.

[Iminit]

The black specs are nothing. It’s called peppering. Could be anything wrong with it. I’d remove and put in qr tank. Raise the temp to about 86-88 and add salt. To start just 1 tbs per 10g and see what happens. It does look thin. Is it the last discus in the group photo? And is that an older pic?

[Greg-Florida]

The black specs are nothing. It’s called peppering. Could be anything wrong with it. I’d remove and put in qr tank. Raise the temp to about 86-88 and add salt. To start just 1 tbs per 10g and see what happens. It does look thin. Is it the last discus in the group photo? And is that an older pic?

Yes, he's the one on the far left in the group photo taken a couple months ago when he was eating. The solo photos don't show how thin he really is.
I don't have a qr tank but I do have a 30 gal with 20 small community fish I keep at 76 degrees.
Should I raise temp and add salt to the big discus tank with all of them in there?

[Iminit]

I’d buy a 20-40g and qt the fish by itself. The other fish look good and a qt is needed for discus.

[Greg-Florida]

I’d buy a 20-40g and qt the fish by itself. The other fish look good and a qt is needed for discus.

Thanks Tom. I thought it would take a month for the new tank to be ready for any fish. I can start a new tank now for the future... what can be done now about this fish not eating?
I might need more detailed help to keep this Discus alive. I'm new to this hobby and have no problem doing research but I'm not finding much on this topic.

[Iminit]

No you can start it right up by using old media from the main tank. And that tanks water.

[bluelagoon]

IMO, you should not use old tank water. Clean fresh water is always better; aged and aerated is always better when doing large WC's. There are very little BB in the water column if any. A maintenance routine of the tank would be something to go by. It could be worms or some other parasite or just wasting away from interior organ issues.

[fljones3]

Agree, don't use the old tank water.

[Iminit]

The reason I suggest old tank water is stress. Removing a sick fish is stressful enough. Now adding it to different water adds to the stress. Day 2 in new tank I change 50%. Than 50% daily. Next if you need to age and aerate your water yes you should. Not all of us need to. I use tap water :).

[brewmaster15]

Greg, I would definitely put the fish in hospital tank. You need to see if he is passing any feces, and if its whitish or yellow..or none at all. When they get this thin its hard to turn them around. Their organs start to shut down. That fish has been in decline for a long time and it may just be its time.. It could also be something like worms.. These can case wasting away slowly like this and tends to show in the least dominant in the group more as these tend to be the most stressed and weakest fish.

al

[Greg-Florida]

I cannot afford a new tank setup but if I can save this fish, then I will afford a new tank.
Substrate or none?
Old water, new water, or 50/50?
I assume he'll want some decorations for privacy.

What to feed him?
Salt, temperature? I run his tank at 84 and just bumped to 86 and added 6 TBSP salt for 60 gallons yesterday to be proactive.
If I'm going to invest in this, I want to do it right, I don't think time is on my side.
I can leave early from work today to get a tank started.

Yesterday and today he is hiding out below and did not come up at feeding time. Yes, maybe it's his time. I would like to save him if possible and suppose I need a qt or hospital tank anyway.
I'm assuming one tank can serve as both.
Once I get him in there, there's so many questions.
Sorry, feeling a bit frustrated and concerned. But I sincerely appreciate the guidance.

[brewmaster15]

Greg,
Check your email. I will walk you through it.

al

[jwcarlson]

I haven't had discus long (about a year), but two separate times I had fish stop eating. One of them was a hex issue and metro snapped him out of it, but the other not eating at the same time didn't make it. Then another one more recently and it was an internal parasite (worm) issue. So levamisole took care of that guy, thread here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139240-One-of-my-fish-stopped-eating . I treated the whole tank both times with the thought that if one of them has a parasite issue, the others do too, but perhaps aren't showing the symptoms (yet). The good news is the two that have made it back from the brink fatten up pretty quick and start growing. Even if they've been outside of best period of growth.

I'm sure Al will help fix you right up, but thought I'd give you a little hope at least. :)

[bluelagoon]

The reason I suggest old tank water is stress. Removing a sick fish is stressful enough. Now adding it to different water adds to the stress. Day 2 in new tank I change 50%. Than 50% daily. Next if you need to age and aerate your water yes you should. Not all of us need to. I use tap water :).

It's the same water in your tank as in your tap, except tank water is dirtier. If the chemistry of the tank water is that different from the tap water then your not changing enough water or aging it to begin with. I could see it being an issue if one lets their tank water go a long time and only do small 25-30% WC's; but we're talking discus/ pristine water. Then there will be a big chemical change and should not be done all at once. I lived in a few places and none of those places could I use straight tap water for more than a 25-30% WC, it all had micro-bubbles and had to be aged so I could do 80% or more WC's without a hitch.

[Greg-Florida]

I haven't had discus long (about a year), but two separate times I had fish stop eating. One of them was a hex issue and metro snapped him out of it, but the other not eating at the same time didn't...
I'm sure Al will help fix you right up, but thought I'd give you a little hope at least. :)
That's great Jacob, thank you. And thanks for the thread reference.
Greg

[Greg-Florida]

Tuesday morning update:
I set up a hospital tank last night and moved him in this morning. Today and yesterday he's slow and lethargic.
I finally found some levamisole last night and noticed today it expired March 2022.
I've called Fritz Aquatics to see if it's worth using, waiting to hear back.
Bought some live brine shrimp to coax him to eat, but may be too late.
Added 3 TBSP salt to his new 30G tank. Put at 86 degrees, same as main tank.

One concern is the pink seen on the gills... don't think that's normal for him.

Thanks for the support.
Greg
134542

[jwcarlson]

How was the levamisole stored? And it was pure levamisole or Fritz Expel-P?

[brewmaster15]

Greg when you set up the tank did you use your dechlorinator? .. its not uncommon if the fish is stressed that there would be more blood flow to the gills.. as long as you used dechlor and some of your biofilter from the other tank he should be fine. You may want to tone down that light though.. its bright!

Al

[Greg-Florida]

How was the levamisole stored? And it was pure levamisole or Fritz Expel-P?

I bought at a fish store so I don't know how it was stored. It is Expel-P, yes.

[Greg-Florida]

I used Stress Coat + as my Prime does not come until tomorrow.
Yes, I pulled some foam and ceramic rings from the canister and put them in the new HOB.
I can turn off the light. :)

[jwcarlson]

I think those are one gram pouches, so it must be mostly filler? I'm not sure what the dose would be using that stuff. The pure levamisole is like dosed at like 2.5 ppm. Which is like 675 milligrams in a 75. Thread here for some dosing discussion: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139408-13-ppm-Levamisole-Dosing (to be clear, you don't want to do the 13 ppm dosing we're talking about in there, but Al, Francis and others talk about the proper dosing).

I would expect that the Expel P is still fine to use as long as it didn't get wet or exposed to light. Most meds have weird expiration dates.

[Iminit]

It's the same water in your tank as in your tap, except tank water is dirtier. If the chemistry of the tank water is that different from the tap water then your not changing enough water or aging it to begin with. I could see it being an issue if one lets their tank water go a long time and only do small 25-30% WC's; but we're talking discus/ pristine water. Then there will be a big chemical change and should not be done all at once. I lived in a few places and none of those places could I use straight tap water for more than a 25-30% WC, it all had micro-bubbles and had to be aged so I could do 80% or more WC's without a hitch.
See being we don’t know anything about his water that’s why I suggest using tank water. Once fish is in qt for a day than start changing water. Now knowing he doesn’t have prime or a dechlorinator just old tank water would be best till he’s got prime. Now again me on my tap water I don’t use prime :). Never have. But again nobodies water is the same.

[Greg-Florida]

Update:
After he was comfortably transferred and the tank treated with Levamisole, I was not able to get him to eat, even live brine shrimp.
He (or she) breathed his last breath sometime during the night, sorry to say. He looks so peaceful right now, suspended upright, balanced on a plant. It's a sad day.
Funny, last night I was compelled to stay with him in the room to stay near him. Any of you ever felt that way?

Anyway, it was a big learning experience, not only in the respect that I could have taken corrective action weeks sooner, but in setting up the qt tank and all the advance general care and feeding tips.
Thank you all for your support.

So does this qt tank now need to be broken down and sanitized?

Greg

[Second Hand Pat]

I would like to add a note using meds when the dosage amount needs to be measured. I personally use a jeweler scale. The one I have can measure in mg to a max of 10 grams. The nice thing is a jewerler's scale can be calibrated. So always calibrate before use.
Pat

[Greg-Florida]

I would like to add a note using meds when the dosage amount needs to be measured. I personally use a jeweler scale. The one I have can measure in mg to a max of 10 grams. The nice thing is a jewerler's scale can be calibrated. So always calibrate before use.
Pat

When I saw the pure Levamisole dose for the new qt tank was one gram, I concentrated on finding the pre-measured packets.

[jwcarlson]

When I saw the pure Levamisole dose for the new qt tank was one gram, I concentrated on finding the pre-measured packets.

Sorry to hear about your fish, Greg. :(

The QT tank is a 30, how much of the Expel P did you add? What I was getting at is that the Expel P isn't pure levamisole, meaning that 1 gram packet isn't just levamisole. It's less than 12% levamisole (MSDS here: https://fritzaquatics.com/assets/files/uploads/Expel-P_SDS_082819.pdf)
I think the Expel P packets are one per 10 gallons, right? So that would be 360mg (12% of 3000mg if using 3x1g packets) of levamisole. 360mg/113 liters (30 gallons) = about 3.2 ppm levamisole unless I'm screwing up my math. So the dose is about right if the 12% is accurate.

[bluelagoon]

This is a calculator for levamisole. https://www.geocities.ws/chefkeithallen/Levamisole.html?fbclid=IwAR0aHbTpJsQWrw2LXIYySeh4y VUG3lDHJdXwLT02CVqmHDH7AlTCAdTdDMY

[brewmaster15]

Im sorry to hear it Greg.:(

Al

[Greg-Florida]

Sorry to hear about your fish, Greg. :(

The QT tank is a 30, how much of the Expel P did you add? What I was getting at is that the Expel P isn't pure levamisole, meaning that 1 gram packet isn't just levamisole. It's less than 12% levamisole (MSDS here: https://fritzaquatics.com/assets/files/uploads/Expel-P_SDS_082819.pdf)
I think the Expel P packets are one per 10 gallons, right? So that would be 360mg (12% of 3000mg if using 3x1g packets) of levamisole. 360mg/113 liters (30 gallons) = about 3.2 ppm levamisole unless I'm screwing up my math. So the dose is about right if the 12% is accurate.

Didn't see your reply until now...
I went the easier route and bought the packets, one packet per 10 gallons and I added 3.
Each packet is 1 gram and contains 113mg Levamisole HCl.

I must be mistaken on the 1 gram / 10G, don't remember where I saw that, but didn't have a way to measure accurately so paid a bit more for the concise method.
I'm treating the main discus tank now with Levamisole to deworm the remaining fish.

NOW, to learn when Metro, Prazi and Levamisole is appropriate and for what symptoms...