55 Gallon - First Discus Setup

[jbacker7]

Hello,

I am currently in the process of setting up my first discus tank and thought I'd document the progress here for myself and others.

I found a used 55 gallon aquarium and stand on Facebook Marketplace for $90 so I decided to pick it up with angelfish and cardinal tetras in mind. Over time that idea slowly shifted from angels into discus.

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I am planning on this aquarium housing 5 or 6 wild caught discus from Wattley's or maybe the same number of Stendker Tefes depending on how I decide to manage the water parameters. They will share it with 25 cardinal tetras.

My tap water parameters (Lake Superior water) are as follows:

pH - 8.9
GH - 4°
KH - 3°

I plan on mixing water in a Brute trash can next to the tank and keeping it aerated and heated for one 50% water change per week. Options for reducing the pH range from muriatic acid, to RO water, to Seachem buffers. That plan is still TBD.

The tank will have a bare bottom, painted light brown. I may upgrade to some slate floor tiles in the future

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It will be scaped with a large piece of dead cedar "driftwood" that I collected from the neighbor's house. It has been long dead and much of the heartwood has rotted out giving it a very unique "hollow" shape. I cleaned it with a scraper and brush, washed it, power washed it, and then boiled as much of it as I could. It is now in the tank waiting to fully sink.

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I now have the wood soaking, a sponge filter in there just to keep things moving, and two 250 watt heaters turned to 86.

I will adding two AquaClear AC70s for filtration, an Inkbird WiFi temperature controller, and maybe a couple air stones in lieu of the sponge filter. Maybe the sponge will stay.

I am planning on lighting the tank with a Fluval Plant 3.0 and hope to put in two potted plants, an Amazon sword for sure and maybe something else a little larger with similar light requirements. I also plan to get some hanging planters for the back to house some pothos to grow on top of the tank.

Thanks for reading, more to come.

If you see anything wrong or have advice on how to do something better, I'm all ears.

[LizStreithorst]

Your water is great as it is. No reason to mess around with the pH.

[jbacker7]

Thank you Liz. My challenge with the pH is the low carbonate hardness. When ammonia is added to the water, the pH drops significantly.

I actually started a thread about it here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139584-High-pH-Low-KH

If you have a moment, would you mind reading the details and let me know your thoughts?

Thanks again,

Jacob

[brewmaster15]

Jacob, thats a nice looking piece of wood. I think you might want to trim the trunk though.. a group of wild discus and cardinals is going to be cramped in a 55 gal to begin with. Generally, Cedar isnt really a good wood for a tank normally because of the aromatic and resin in it.
But you should be okay because of the age of the wood. Understand also that if the wood has sharp edges its likely the discus will injure themselves on it. Discus can be skittish at times and when new to a tank.

Hth,
Al

[jeep]

I was concerned about the cedar as well, but Al said since it's heart wood it may be ok.

I hope you continue this thread. It's always fun to watch a build!!

[Seanliftsnyc]

Hi Jacob

That’s a nice piece of wood….but I share Al’s thoughts about it just being to big in a 55, and as also pointed out sharp edges is a no no with discus as they can get spooked pretty easily and get injured.

However I like the painted bottom, pretty cool.

Check out the discus from discus Hans….I just picked up a few and the good thing for you is he keeps his in a higher PH and I can’t say enough for how nice his fish are from his supplier discus X….give em a look, you may be pleasantly pleased!

[Iminit]

Well welcome!! Ok I’m going the other way! Get rid of the tank keep the wood and get a 125-180g. Wood will be perfect then. Though I’m not all in on the cedar. Next it looks hollow so to get that wood to sink Ty-rap a 5lb rock to the inside to hold it down for a few months/years :). One thing I don’t like about the wood is the hollow is big enough to hide about 5-6 discus and a school of cardinals!! So of course being now a 125 or bigger get 10-12 discus so you can watch them :). Watching!! Oh and the 55 will make a good qt/breeding tank :).

[jwcarlson]

I can't really comment on the most of the plan. I'd be leary of cedar personally, though it does look really nice. I've got to figure something out for my 125 eventually and I think I'm going to go hunting for one.

I wouldn't spend all that money on the Fluval 3.0 light. I have a 2.0 and it's way overkill on my 75, I'm not even sure it's at 30% output. Unless you think you're going to do something radical with plants later on. There's lot of options. I like my Hygger lights and they grow plants just fine and you can custom program them pretty easily. With Fluval you've got to have an app on your phone. Aquarium Co-Op also just put out a new line of lights, simple on/off you can put on a timer. I've got a 4' one on a 55 and I think it's a pretty good light. It's on an apisto tank with plants and they're doing well. Lots of algae at the moment, but that's a new tank thing, just have to forge through the algae stage for some months.

Best of luck with the water. I've got pretty high pH, about 8.3. But it's hard as a rock so it's very stable. Not sure how to tackle your issue, but I'm sure the people above have good ideas. I'm mainly chiming in so you don't spend like $250+ on a light you don't really need. It would be better spent on quarantine meds to make sure they're nice and clean early on.

[Iminit]

Yep im with Jacob on the light. I grow plants and would never spend that type of money on a led light. Hygger 957 is as good and so much cheaper. Plus fully programable. I’ve got 3 now and swear by them. Also have 3 finnex that I run on the 24/7 mode. 2 HLCs and a planted plus. These are also good lights.

[jbacker7]

Wow. Thanks so much to all of you for the feedback!

Today I took the wood out and trimmed a large portion of the trunk off as you recommended, Al. I also went over the surface thoroughly and knocked off any of the sharp little branch remnants.

Iminit, I had considered finding some stones to secure to the back to weigh it down. I think I will see how the buoyancy fares over the next week or so now with a large section of what was unsaturated gone. The left half of the piece, the branches, already sink without issue. I also love your sentiment about going bigger. Don't tell my wife, but in time hopefully I can raise these fish to be large enough that she will see the necessity for a 6' tank.

Jwcarlson and Iminit, in regards to your comments about the light, I had planned for a Plant 3.0 as the one kind of "luxury" item for this tank. I also thought that in the future I it might be more useful to have around than another Aquasky 2.0. I have an Aquasky 2.0 on my 40 breeder and I love everything about the light. I'm just unsure of how it may fare on a taller tank if I desired to grow plants. With everyone's experienced comments about space being at a premium, so much as to recommend cutting down the existing wood, it may make the most sense to ditch the potted plant idea and keep this tank as a simple "biotope type" tank featuring this one wood piece and some stones. I could still grow the pothos out the top for that splash of green color with the tank. That strategy would free up approximately $100 in the budget that would probably be better used toward an RO system (still need to figure out my water strategy) or medications.

There's another item I need to figure out.... whether to add the cardinals or the discus first and how any preventative medications work into that order of operations.....

Thanks again for the feedback, it is great help in dialing in the details of this plan.

[Seanliftsnyc]

Glad you trimmed that wood Jacob.

As for the Fluval Plant 3.0 LED.

I have 3 of them and love them. I’ve used the Aquasky in years past and while it was a decent light, I feel the Fluval Plant light has my tanks and fish looking ridiculously nice. All based of preference and what you like.

Here they are under the light in my 90

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[Iminit]

Thing is the hygger is rated just under the 3.0. Here my 180 with a 36” and a 30”.134688134689

[jbacker7]

Wow, you guys have some beautiful fish. The lighting certainly shows them off.

I have been doing some more thinking on the Cardinal tetras….. I think it is in the best interest of this 55 gallon, my FIRST shot at discus, to save them for the next, larger setup. I think you guys would probably be supportive of this.

It will also free up some budget to focus on more important matters.

So my stocking list has moved to 6 discus, maybe they’ll be wilds maybe they’ll be domestically bred strains. It may come down to the water I decide to use and which fish (supplier based) will be best suited.

A little background for the journal aspect: My draw to discus is actually rooted in koi. I love lawn care and landscaping. I love sauna. I will be updating the small side yard outside my sauna this summer. I really got interested in incorporating a koi pond in the plans and got way into learning about koi. I’ve been around them for a long time with friends’ ponds, but didn’t know about the real prestige associated with the fish. There’s really too many great things to keep typing about them.

However, living in Northeast Minnesota where bears walk through the yard on a nightly basis when it’s warmer, and the yard is buried under snow for half the year, I have kind of put down that idea as a recurring daydream.

Discus on the other hand, offer many of the same things koi have to offer me as a hobbyist and again, cutting all the poignant details out, here I am.

So I will focus on the discus and make this small tank the best I can for them. I’ll likely go with some domestic strains too as I think they could be more colorful family fun than just fun for Dad.

[brewmaster15]

I think holding off on the tetras is a smart choice. Most people love the look of tetras with their discus, I also do. BUT .. liking the look is as far as I go most of the time. My discus are the primary goal of my tank and no matter how nice tetras are they pose a huge risk to discus. They carry pathogens that can really make a tank of discus go from " man I love this tank to ..Omg .. my discus are black and dying". Why do I feel that way? Simply because they are so sensitive to medications that quarantine is a real pain. I really would advise hobbyists new to discus to only have discus in that tank until they are well up the learning curve. It just makes it so much easier to get your discus heathy and established.
Hth,
Al

[jwcarlson]

Discus Hans has some nice domestic, but wild looking ones (others might as well). Sean is showing them above and has posted pictures in other threads.
Truthfully, don't get too hung up on the light. Get whatever you want. The point is, for what you're doing, a light at less than half the cost is going to do the same thing. I've never played with any of the settings on my light other than to turn up/down the intensity. And just about any light lets you do that anymore.

I've got 8 discus in a 75 with about 10 tetras (depending how many have commit suicide down the water change pipe recently) and an adult bristlenose. But I added all that months down the line. It's always pretty easy to add fish, but difficult to put an illness back in the bag once it's out. I didn't worm my tetras before adding them and I'm quite positive that one of my fish got worms from the tetras and I ended up having to worm the whole tank (again). Now I just worm every fish I buy regardless of where it's going.
My tank is certainly overstocked, but I'm doing 90% water changes daily. It's not a real issue at this point. I don't plan on changing that yet.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it or not. But deciding what size fish you're going to get is important. I was almost solely interested in growing them out. I'm still not sure what future discus hold for me. If you're going to go the grow-out route, you should really dedicate it (in my opinion). It's great fun and watching them go from 2.5-3" up to 6"-ish fish over the course of the last year has been very enjoyable. But some people just want pretty fish to look at and in that case, it's probably best to buy something where that initial care and growout is done. Your fish will be happier if you go that route vs getting smaller ones and not wanting to put the work in to grow them up nice.
I don't know if you have facebook, but if you want to see all sorts of horror stories from the "I only change water once every month or so" crowd you can get a good luck at what poorly cared for discus look like. And then compare it to what you see here. :) It convinced me to "do it right".

I'm very interested in your water situation as I do not understand how you can have such low hardness and high pH. I'll have to do some reading.

[Iminit]

4” is a great start! Gets you into discus and the whole routine of keeping them. Then if you’re enjoying it and get another tank you can try 2” discus. I’ve done the 2” discus and yes it’s fun to grow them out. But the thing with 2” discus is you really don’t know what you’re getting. Close to you are Dennis discus and Chicago Discus. I’ve bought from Dennis and I’m very happy with his fish. Haven’t bought from Chicago but have never heard anything bad about their Discus. Both come highly recommended and are close to you. I don’t recommend buying from local.

[jbacker7]

I made it to the big city for some appointments on Friday.

Picked up some Fluval Aquaclear 70s, a Brute trash can for a water reservoir, and a pothos plant to grow out the top.

My Eheim 400 air pump came in the mail as well so got that running.

I also cut the wood piece to length, and then it still wasn't quite small enough so I ripped it down in height as well. I did end up zip tying a couple rocks to the back as well to sink it. It was a very big help in determining how it will really fit.

Still unsure if the driftwood will stay, but I am more on the positive side now. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the changes.


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I added ammonia yesterday and got it cycling as well.

Now just need to get a heater and a water pump for the reservoir and a light for the tank.

[brewmaster15]

Making good progress there Jacob! Lots of tanins in that that tank.Nice blackwater look.

Al

[Iminit]

Yes lots of tannins! Think that piece of wood will be leaching them for awhile. Just hope cedar leaching in alright for fish. Does it have the distinct cedar smell?

[jbacker7]

It does have a light cedar smell. It's not overbearing or anything. I'm sure with regular water changes and less build up it would be far less.

This is Eastern White Cedar. It's a lot less potent than Western Red Cedar, which is more commonly used in construction, and exponentially less potent than "Aromatic Cedar".

"Aromatic Cedar", commonly used for cedar chests, closets, etc. as a natural protection / repellent for insects is actually a species of juniper. I think this is what most people think of when they hear the word "cedar" and instantly think "toxic".

(I have a background in woodworking and cedar holds a special place in my heart.)

I've read tons online about whether cedar is safe or not for use in the aquarium, and the only thing I have learned is that the general public probably misidentifies what is and isn't cedar the majority of the time haha.

[brewmaster15]

It does have a light cedar smell. It's not overbearing or anything. I'm sure with regular water changes and less build up it would be far less.

This is Eastern White Cedar. It's a lot less potent than Western Red Cedar, which is more commonly used in construction, and exponentially less potent than "Aromatic Cedar".

"Aromatic Cedar", commonly used for cedar chests, closets, etc. as a natural protection / repellent for insects is actually a species of juniper. I think this is what most people think of when they hear the word "cedar" and instantly think "toxic".

(I have a background in woodworking and cedar holds a special place in my heart.)

I've read tons online about whether cedar is safe or not for use in the aquarium, and the only thing I have learned is that the general public probably misidentifies what is and isn't cedar the majority of the time haha.


It does get confusing with common names.. for instance "Northern or Eastern Red Cedar" is actually Juniperus virginia scientifically.. This one is common around here in CT. We also have " Northern or Eastern White cedar". Which is Thuja occidentalis, a member of the cypress family..

And that is probably way too much info.:)

Al

[Seanliftsnyc]

I like it….color and all

But I’m going to be honest and give you my take.

That wood is just too big for a 55 gallon with discus….if it was say a 75 or 90 I’d say it’s Maybe manageable for a few months and if the discus are very small.

But off the bat in a 55 with a piece of wood that size you are going to run into problems. Discus get spooked very easily. Even after they become comfortable. With a large piece like that I’d actually say it’s more suited for a larger wider tank. Just my honest opinion. I’m thinking of taking my wood out of the middle of my tank and it’s only because I see them buzzing past it and mine is in the middle. I may get a piece like half the size and just place it more towards the left or the right and leave the middle completely open….just my 2 cents : )

[bluelagoon]

The aromatic terpene in cedar is Delta 3 Carene. Also can be a component in turpentine. From what I've read it can be very toxic to aquatic life with long lasting effects. Soft wood is not a good driftwood for a fish tank. It rots quicker than hard wood and the terpenes that are in softwood are released in the water. Also, traces of Delta 3 Carene is good for human health. That's just my take.

[jbacker7]

Sean / Mervin, thank you guys very much for you comments. I decided to join Simply Discus for experienced keepers' advice, and I value your input just as much as other people who don't mind the driftwood.

The more I look at it, the more restrictive I can see it being to swimming space.

I'll keep chewing on it, but more and more I am being pulled toward a potted plant idea.

I might try to come up with a long, skinny clear rectangular glass vase, fill it with gravel, and use an Amazon sword with some crypts or something in it, kind of like a table centerpiece.

More to come in that area.

Thanks again for your experienced input. I appreciate it.

[jbacker7]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to give an update on this tank.

Back in early March there was a 75 gallon setup that came up locally on Craigslist. I went to check it out to figure out it was a full saltwater setup and I picked it up for $250. While I was getting everything cleaned up and taking stock I realized that if I were to purchase the setup new it would retail for about $3,000. With as well set up as the 75 gallon is to be used for saltwater I decided that it must be destiny for me to finally give it a shot. There are still some things that I need to save up for / modify / add to that setup to get it how I want so it is going to become my project of focus. It also will utilize the water change reservoir (Brute trash can) that I had planned on using for the discus setup.

With all that in mind, I came back to the idea of using the 55 for a simple, fun community setup. I've really wanted to do cardinal tetras in a 55, and ordered 40 of them from Discus.com (shipped from Wattley Discus). They arrived last Friday, and are nice. Wattley's sent 49 in total. Two died in shipping. Five died overnight on Saturday which was a bit unexpected, but 3 of those did look pretty rough before I went to bed. Tank is fully cycled, all parameters are in check, fish did take some NLS Grow pellet food on Saturday. The remaining 42 are doing good. I wish I would've had my brine shrimp ready for them on Saturday morning instead of Sunday morning, but they are loving those brine shrimp now, and look great.

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I think that I will pick up a handful of German Blue Rams for the bottom the next time I make it down to the big city.

I think I'd also like some angels for the top in time. It might be smart from a bio-load perspective to stick with one, but I love pairs of cichlids. Maybe I'll get 4 juveniles and let them pair off, but the tank will already be quite stocked up.

I'm so thankful I found you guys even though my discus journey may not fully begin until sometime down the road. I've definitely learned a lot here in general, and am a better fishkeeper because of the knowledge I've gained alone. I think the bare bottom, potted plant tank is still going to be a fun, clean experiment.

[jbacker7]

Correction. The fish from Discus.com were not shipped from Wattley Discus.