Whats your favorite substrate for planted tanks?

[brewmaster15]

Its been a very long time since I messed with the dark side(planted tanks). But I get the urge now and again... my last tanks I used laterite which is probably telling some of you how long. Its been.. I know theres always improved products and new products out there so thought I would check in with the green thumb crowd here and ask what you use now. The laterite I used wss actually a lanscaping product sold here, the name escapes me but it worked pretty well for my plants at the time. .

I may dabble again so just asking .. thanks
Al

[Iminit]

Got to say my substrate is and has always been gravel. Pic of my tank a few years back.134727. And now using pots instead of any substrate.134729 but gravel in the pots :).

[jwcarlson]

In a non-discus tank... aqua soil with about 3" of sand on top.

[brewmaster15]

Tom I like the look of both tanks.. the bare bottom does have its cleaning advantages though. On the gravel dud you use ferts like root tabs?

Al

[brewmaster15]

Jacob,
This aqua soil?

134732

[Iminit]

Yes I use ferts. I’ve used the seachem products. The comprehensive with potassium and iron. So 3 different bottles. Used to buy by the gallon. They were used in the first tank. Also some root tabs. Tabs under swords and crypts. I’ve used the api tabs cause I can break them up to add under different plants. One full root tab is a lot. Have also used osmacoat. In the 180 with pots I’ve been using NilocG. I use the osmacoat in the pots. Instead of the whole tab I open it and add to 2 pots at a time. For me another must have is mylasian trumpet snails. Plant just grow better with these snails.

[jwcarlson]

Jacob,
This aqua soil?


They're probably all about the same. I've used Fluval Stratum. The next tank I do is going to have 1-2 of dirt/potting soil and probably 3-4" of sand cap. Again... not for discus.
So, basically a dirted tank with a deep sand bed.

[Iminit]

Thing with a dirted tank is the nutrients don’t last long and you’re left with mud. Just way to messy for me.

[brewmaster15]

I was looking for pics of my old planted tanks and came across this one.. taken in 2008!

134758


15 years ago.. That kiddo is graduating college this year.

That tank was a low tech tank if I remember correctly, I did not use commercial ferts, but I did put iron pills and tums under the plants every once in a while.

al

[Bud Smith]

I have been using aquatic pond soil with fluval stratum over it with good growth for my swords and crypts.

[jwcarlson]

Thing with a dirted tank is the nutrients don’t last long and you’re left with mud. Just way to messy for me.

Clearly I have not done it... but the theory is you can hop it up enough to get it into the stage where it rejuvenates the dirt from the waste. I have a 3-4" gravel bed that I have never vacuumed in a community tank, I'm still putting root tabs in and the plants aren't doing great in... but I'm starting to think it has a lot more to do with my rock hard water with the mix of plants I have. Some do really well and some just kind of stay the same size forever regardless of what I do for them. I've got a 29 earmarked for the dirted tank project. I suppose I could do the 125, but that seems like a bit too big of an experiment. :D

In any event, the a whole lot of stuff going into the dirt... not just dirt. I'll be interested to see how it goes. If it just ends up mud, I guess that's the breaks. That's what the whole yard is currently and will be for the next two months anyway, might as well bring a little of that inside to enjoy!

[Iminit]

Well I’d definitely start with the 29. Could only imagine the mess in a 125. I tried eco-completely useless with some red stratum under it in a 90g acrylic tank. I really wish I would have thought that over better. Eco is lave rock. Not the best mix for acrylic. This mix proved to not grow anything and was a great place to kill plants. Corys also didn’t care for it. After 3 yrs pulled all 100lbs out and used it to fill a ground hog hole at the in laws house :). I’m now playing around with aquasoil in pots. Instead of root tabs. Things are growing so far.

[jorge7439]

I have had good luck with sand blasting media as substrate. You can get 50 pounds of media for about 15 bucks. Try Black Diamond brand, Tractor Supply Store carries it. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives?store=2366&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA3pugBhAwEiwAWFzwdbxebFyyCp-kLf9XvTUr7mwCcf2KUe9EcokOiZXdKiKKAXMJNhd7rBoCguYQA vD_BwE
Personally, I think most substrates are overrated. They can be very expensive and it's unclear to me if they really help much.

[pitdogg2]

Personally I've always used the seachem flourite in clay pots. Some plants I'll stick a little peat in a nylon stocking on the bottom of the pot and put some fert tabs on top of the stocking when planting the plant, swords I mostly do this with.

[brewmaster15]

I have had good luck with sand blasting media as substrate. You can get 50 pounds of media for about 15 bucks. Try Black Diamond brand, Tractor Supply Store carries it. https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives?store=2366&cid=Shopping-Google-Local_Feed&utm_medium=Google&utm_source=Shopping&utm_campaign=&utm_content=Local_Feed&gclid=CjwKCAiA3pugBhAwEiwAWFzwdbxebFyyCp-kLf9XvTUr7mwCcf2KUe9EcokOiZXdKiKKAXMJNhd7rBoCguYQA vD_BwE
Personally, I think most substrates are overrated. They can be very expensive and it's unclear to me if they really help much.
Thanks for that tip. It sounds like a really interesting substrate... cheap.. inert.. no silica to feed diatoms... looks like its been used quite a bit for planted tanks and is generally thought of as safe. I did see a few references to possible issues with rust but it seems like its mostly subjective issues and things like" I used this substrate and lost a shrimp" or "lost cories". I don't put much faith into that kind of rationale. I will definitely consider this one as an option... hard to argue with tractor supplies prices on it.

Al

[brewmaster15]

..... I have a 3-4" gravel bed that I have never vacuumed in a community tank, I'm still putting root tabs in and the plants aren't doing great in... but I'm starting to think it has a lot more to do with my rock hard water with the mix of plants I have....

I know a fair amount about plant biology but fairly little about growing aquarium plants ...full disclosure there. I have read though that excess calcium can inhibit absorption of mg and Iron. It might be worth trying an RO water mix in your planted tank.

Al

[pitdogg2]

Thanks for that tip. It sounds like a really interesting substrate... cheap.. inert.. no silica to feed diatoms... looks like its been used quite a bit for planted tanks and is generally thought of as safe. I did see a few references to possible issues with rust but it seems like its mostly subjective issues and things like" I used this substrate and lost a shrimp" or "lost cories". I don't put much faith into that kind of rationale. I will definitely consider this one as an option... hard to argue with tractor supplies prices on it.

Al

While I have not used this product I can uderstand the rust and Cory issue. Many years ago many public works departments used coal cinders or bottom ash instead of salt and sand in the wintertime to apply to the streets for traction for autos and trucks. Many times while helping my dad at the public works garage (he was an employee) there would be huge chunks of the stuff. It would reminded me of the Texas holy rocks with the exception that it was black or brown and could also be multi color due to that fact it after all had been incinerated. :) I would also see chunks that had been there for some time and they were in fact rusted due to the iron or hematite content in the coal itself.
The fact that it is very jagged and sharp would again explain why cory's or other fish who would be face first in it could develope problems. I in fact did have problems with a "Java Sand" substrate early in my aquarium keeping. It was in fact a particular black sand that to my understanding was a type of volcanic slag and under a microscope you could easily see it was pointed cylindrical objects and my corys were getting redness around the mouth and face and they were not happy fish. In fact some did die and to this day I do feel it may have helped that happen. After I pulled the sand out and use small flint rock all the redness went away and they seemed to eat better and be happier fish. Coincidence ? Maybe, maybe not.

[brewmaster15]

While I have not used this product I can uderstand the rust and Cory issue. Many years ago many public works departments used coal cinders or bottom ash instead of salt and sand in the wintertime to apply to the streets for traction for autos and trucks. Many times while helping my dad at the public works garage (he was an employee) there would be huge chunks of the stuff. It would reminded me of the Texas holy rocks with the exception that it was black or brown and could also be multi color due to that fact it after all had been incinerated. :) I would also see chunks that had been there for some time and they were in fact rusted due to the iron or hematite content in the coal itself.
The fact that it is very jagged and sharp would again explain why cory's or other fish who would be face first in it could develope problems. I in fact did have problems with a "Java Sand" substrate early in my aquarium keeping. It was in fact a particular black sand that to my understanding was a type of volcanic slag and under a microscope you could easily see it was pointed cylindrical objects and my corys were getting redness around the mouth and face and they were not happy fish. In fact some did die and to this day I do feel it may have helped that happen. After I pulled the sand out and use small flint rock all the redness went away and they seemed to eat better and be happier fish. Coincidence ? Maybe, maybe not.

Thanks for that info!!

al

[GregMD]

Al-

This tank is about 6 weeks old: https://youtu.be/nv0656_e4NM

I started this tank with 1” of organic potting soil mix with a 2” pool filter sand cap. I used seachem liquid fertilizer for the first month and changed water every day of the first week. This was mostly because of tannins in the water. The tank is heavily planted and was started up incredibly well. I have yet to clean the glass.

I added the fish about 3 weeks into the tank and stopped fertilizing and things seem to be thriving. I checked nitrates today after it has been a week since water change and the nitrates were about 5. I haven’t had a tank start this well. I attribute that to the soil and the density of plants.

Greg

[pastry]

How did I miss this thread for 4 months????? "The DARK Side.... <evil laugh>..."

For me, sand from the beach... because apparently it's illegal here to steal sand from the beach (... oh the thrill of living on the dark side:evilgrin:)

Jokes aside (although it IS against the law where I am and I looked like a jackass out there with a 96 quart cooler dragging it over a football field across the beach and through the path with no damn wheels... and snapped both handles), it seemed like every plant & fish thrived like bonkers for about 3-4 years... at which time I got bored with the best aquascape I've ever had and f'ed with it. But anytime I get sand where the waves hit the beach, it's done wonders. The only part that sucks is dragging all the way back to the truck! Of course, you really don't need 96 quarts worth for 150 gallon tank to have 2.5" of depth (but it was a damn good workout)

[pitdogg2]

Clay pots and flourite

[Willie]

...I looked like a jackass out there with a 96 quart cooler dragging it over a football field across the beach and through the path with no damn wheels... and snapped both handles...

Oh, if only you had videos.

[brady]

By far my favorite substrate is!!!!! bare bottom.
Jay

[pastry]

Oh, if only you had videos.

Don't worry, Willie... I'm still an idiot an liable to try it 9 more times :inquisitive::idea:

[sidef]

For the first layer I like to use the large ADA Power Sand and I cap it with white quartz sand.

[brewmaster15]

For the first layer I like to use the large ADA Power Sand and I cap it with white quartz sand.
Im not familar with these as I have mostly used pool filter sand... I never really understood layering it as it seems. It would mix up when cleaning the substrate. When you layer it is the intent not to clean the sand bed? I will layer substrate in clay pots but I dont mess with it once I do and its planted.

How deep.are the layers?

Al

[Discus Fever]

My favorite is gravel, actually eco complete the black color. Black always makes all the fish or shrimp look better.

[jwcarlson]

Im not familar with these as I have mostly used pool filter sand... I never really understood layering it as it seems. It would mix up when cleaning the substrate. When you layer it is the intent not to clean the sand bed? I will layer substrate in clay pots but I dont mess with it once I do and its planted.

How deep.are the layers?

Al

I do not clean the sand deeply. I've done some tanks with Fluval Stratum on the bottom and a 1.5-2" pool filter sand cap. In my experience they all just end up messy. Not from mixing, but because I'm typically trying to do two things. Plant and spawn the fish and many times these different goals are not conducive to one another. So if I have plants in a tank that I'm trying to breed in I just expect them to die. I never have enough available nitrogen for them to thrive. Perhaps that's partially due to my water being so hard. But this is also true in the tanks that I run mainly RO water in.