Gill flukes

[springer]

I have 6 discus that I have in a 30 gal bare bottem tank. I have been treating them for fill flukes with prazi pro. Salt and pp there is a very slight improvement but a month has gone by. Any advise is welcome

[brewmaster15]

Its likely you arent dealing with flukes here. Can you elaborate on exactly what you used, how much and how ling? Also what are the symptoms you are seeing. Lastly can you post some pics of the fish and the tank itself? This info is important to be able to help you here. Thanks,
Al

[springer]

I have been using prazi pro 2 teaspoons 4 days in a row and then 3 days off and repeated this 4 times. I also have been using pp every third day for 4 hrs. Pics will follow what else could this be they eat fine

[brewmaster15]

6 discus in 30 gal tank, assuming they are juvenile? With what you are doing I can't see flukes surviving. But I am concerned by the use of PP every 3rd day for 4 hours. How many of these PP treatments have you done over the month you have been treating? I also need more information on the actual symptoms you are seeing? Are their gills flared out, and labored breathing? or are the breathing normal but flashing off of things? More info on the salt as well.. how much have you used per gallon and for how long.

Its really not possible to give you good advice if you don't give all the information. Details matter.

al

[springer]

Thank u I will try to give more info. I use 4 teaspoons of salt for the 30 gals. The tds is 100. I have giving them 8 pp treatments. Yes they are juvies out of the eight there are 2 that I think have recovered but I will leave them in that tank till I am sure. Yes the gills are flared and they do have trouble breathing not bouncing off objects. When I experienced this before I would use a med called live bearer a pink liquid and it was always successful but no longer can find it. It does seem that I am gaining a bit but very slow and the ones that have it real bad seem to be no difference.

[springer]

Oh I have also given them 8 prazi pro treatments. What I just finished doing is a complete tank cleaning drained and cleaned then put the fish back into completely new water

[Greg-Florida]

Following...

[captainandy]

Are you sure you are dealing with flukes?

[brewmaster15]

Thank u I will try to give more info. I use 4 teaspoons of salt for the 30 gals. The tds is 100. I have giving them 8 pp treatments. Yes they are juvies out of the eight there are 2 that I think have recovered but I will leave them in that tank till I am sure. Yes the gills are flared and they do have trouble breathing not bouncing off objects. When I experienced this before I would use a med called live bearer a pink liquid and it was always successful but no longer can find it. It does seem that I am gaining a bit but very slow and the ones that have it real bad seem to be no difference.....
I have been using prazi pro 2 teaspoons 4 days in a row and then 3 days off and repeated this 4 times. I also have been using pp every third day for 4 hrs. Pics will follow what else could this be they eat fine



Ok here is my honest assessment. I don't know if you started with flukes or not but at this point I think your fish have been burned badly and have chronic inflammation and possible bacterial gill infections. 8 pp treatments is way too much. The gills are very sensitive and highly vascular tissue. They are a major transporters of mineral and oxygen/ They also are the fishes primary way to excrete ammonia from the fishes body. PP is a caustic oxidizer. It doesn't care if its gills or parasites. When you use it it causes burns. If you are not careful even a single dose can do serious damage.It should be used as a last resort if at all, Unfortunately its become common place now to recommend it, even exporters do. Social media promotes it. Its just really used excessively .

If I had a guess your fish are struggling to excrete ammonia and take in oxygen. I would really advise you to stop all medications and treatments, and absolutely stop with the PP baths. You are damaging your fishes gills when you use it. Let them rest. If they still have Gill flukes, they aren't going to kill your fish in low numbers and its doubtful they have them at all. I really think what they need is good clean water and time to heal. You can use table salt at 1 tablespoon per 3 gals water for a week to ease the fishes stress and help them heal.

If after a few weeks they are flashing off things, you can use something safer like a salt dip. If the Gills continue to flare you may have to resort to an antibiotic to deal with secondary bacterial infections...but I would try the water and healing time first.

hth,
al

[springer]

Thank u brew master that is exactly what I shall do is give them a rest and just use salt. Thanks again.

[brewmaster15]

Glad to help.Please keep us posted how things go with these fish. Good luck,
Al

[dspeers]

Did I read this correctly, you dosed 10 cc of prazi every day for 4 days, then waited 3 days and then another 4 days of dosing then another break, with a total of 4 cycles or 16 doses of Prazi over a period of 25 days? What was your water change schedule during this period. Reason I ask is some of the symptoms may be due an OD of Prazi. When was the last dose and is your water completely free of prazi now?

[springer]

Yes that is correct changed 50 percent of water every second day

[dspeers]

If you haven't treated them with anything since the turnover on the 15th then they have had 3 days to recover. How are they doing? My point with the Prazi is that you were exceeding the Hikari dosage recommendations of 5cc per 10 gallons x 1 dose for 5-7 days with no water change till end of treatment, not to be repeated in less than 3 days (which is admittedly contradictory). You had good reason to do more frequent water changes for your juveniles but in that situation your best bet would have been to only replace the prazi removed with the water, not another full dose. If some of the symptoms were Prazipro toxicity that would actually be better than PP burns as they will resolve faster without the risk of scarring.

[springer]

Ok an update out of the 8 that where affected 3 have completely recovered 1 is very close but the other 4 are getting worse. I have them in a little salt 6 teaspoons for 20 gallons. Not sure what to do with the 4. Any suggestions are welcome and thank u. The 4 are in a tank of their own

[brewmaster15]

Can you post pics?

[springer]

Sorry have tried but no success. I can send some pics to your E mail if u would like

[brewmaster15]

Thats fine.. brewmaster15@comcast.net

I will post them for you.

Al

[springer]

Pics are sent to u

[brewmaster15]

HI,
here are the pics ...

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135113

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135116


I'm sorry to tell you this but nothing is going to fix those gills at the point. Unfortunately. The fish most likely have too much scar tissue. I wish I could suggest something to help, but they are just really deformed now, They will probably live , but I would not expect great growth and longevity here.:(


al

[springer]

That is the way they were when I first started to treat them with no change. Does that mean that they where actually cured but the gills got burned and that is why they are like that. Thank u that is a shame glad I know not to make the same mistake again

[brewmaster15]

That is the way they were when I first started to treat them with no change. Does that mean that they where actually cured but the gills got burned and that is why they are like that. Thank u that is a shame glad I know not to make the same mistake again

Its really hard to say without seeing the fish when you got them. I do think that the way you were using the PP was damaging the Gills... It may have compounded the issue if the gills were already a problem. Going by these images, If you received fish that looked like that, then I am afraid you really got sub par fish. Healthy quality fish should not have gills and gill plates that are deformed. The Gill plate should cover the gills and lay flat to the side of the head when closed. They also should not flare out.

al