Brine shrimp cyst discussion

[brewmaster15]

https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brine-shrimp-eggs/shell-free-e-z-egg/

Has anyone tried these? I have used other brands in the past that offered similar with pretty good results. I'm in the market now for BBS cysts as I am about out but I am only hatching a small amount at a time.....and these hatching Decaps like these really can be an easy option.

I traditionally get Brine Shrimp Directs Premium hatch cysts.

al

[brewmaster15]

Ok so I will take that as a negative. Let me reword the question then..

For those that do hatch Baby brine shrimp what are you using for cysts?..economy grade or premium?

[jeep]

I saw those on the website this morning. I had hoped someone with experience would give a review.

I'm doing it the old fashioned way, using 2 hatcheries and alternating them every other day on the kitchen counter, lol... The last time I bought eggs, I got them off ebay (Green Bay Aquatic Foods) because of free shipping and very fast delivery in an urgent situation. They are unbranded and claim a 90% hatch rate. I am happy with them although I don't know the exact hatch rate, but I don't know that I really care about the hatch rate because I dump them after 24 hours anyway. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_blrs=recall_filtering&_ssn=greenbayaquaticfoods&_oac=1

Now that my Rams are taking off, I'm ordering the San Francisco strain because they are supposed to be the smallest strain of BBS. They're about 25% more expensive but they're highly recommended by others who are breeding rams. https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/brine-shrimp-eggs/san-francisco-strain-brine-shrimp-eggs/

[Charlyc11]

Yes they are not easy to hatch. The bind together and have to agitate vigorously. I am not crazy about them and had to return two batches. I still have some, but I am back to shells. IF you order get a small bottle to try. I can decapsulate with bleach that works better for me. I use 80% hatch rate and also have San Francisco strain for my ram fry.

[LizStreithorst]

I've never used them. I use the 90% ones from Brine Shrimp Direct. I buy 1 can, pour a bit out that I will se soon and put the can in the freezer. One can lasts a long time. Nicholson used to use the economy ones, I probably should, too.

[brewmaster15]

Yes they are not easy to hatch. The bind together and have to agitate vigorously. I am not crazy about them and had to return two batches. I still have some, but I am back to shells. IF you order get a small bottle to try. I can decapsulate with bleach that works better for me. I use 80% hatch rate and also have San Francisco strain for my ram fry.
Chuck are the decaps you make with bleach hatching? ..I Got terribke hatch rates the few times I tried...

[Charlyc11]

Yes, just can't overdue the time. I do 7 minutes on 6% bleach diluted 50%. that gives me a nice golden color. I do at least 24 hrs plus to hatch. Even the ones that don't hatch are nutritious and eatable. I still get better hatch rate without decapsulating. You also need to hydrate the eggs for an hour before decapsulating I use a small brine shrimp hatchery to do the decapsulating.

135306

[brewmaster15]

Chuck, Thanks for the info! I may have to give it another go.

[Charlyc11]

Chuck, Thanks for the info! I may have to give it another go.

Keep a good eye on the color it goes from a white to a golden then determine the time so you can repeat. I say this since different brands of bleach have slightly different concentrations. Important that it's bleach without any surfactants just plain old bleach.

[CliffsDiscus]

I have the non-hatchable bbs, the fry really don't like it compare to live bbs. I usually get the bbs from a wholesaler, BrineShrimpDirect, SFBay Brand and local a university lab. The grade would be probably mostly 80 percent because it's cheaper and I usually buy 3 to 8 cases but I sure SF Bay Brand and the university lab are 90 percent hatch rate, those are free.

[brewmaster15]

Thought I would post an update here on my understanding of the brine shrimp cyst grading process. Obvious they do tests on the hatch rates of the cysts but I kept wondering why are there different hatchrates in the first place and how the heck do they sort these tiny almost microscopic things into groups of 50, 60, 80, 90,95 % hatchrates. The only way I could think of was if you could somehow collect all these floating cysts on the Great Salt Lake and pass them through a sorting sieve if the hatch rate differences were based on size or shape. But thats not the case from what I can tell.. the cysts arent sorted by physical differences.
That was the only plausible thing I could think of until I came across some pics and videos of how they collect these. .. check out ..
https://vimeo.com/617093221

You will see that the cysts float in these massive rafts that are encircled and then collected. These floating rafts of cysts are spotted by fly overs. The various liscenced businesses then collect them.Now its easy to sort and grade. You run the hatchrate tests on the batch you just collected and process and can.

From what I can tell the salt lake being as massive as it is isnt homogenous.. there are parts that for various reasons are better for the brine shrimp to live in and produce optimal quality cysts...others not so much so the cysts are not as viable... this translates to hatchrate percent.

I have yet to find any information that completely confirms all of this but it does fit. It also fits in with explaining why there are years when productions vary. It also helps us understand why the saline levels and overall health of the Great Salt Lake and other Cyst Production Areas is so tied to climate and drought.
(http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139833-Brine-Shrimp-Cyst-production-could-be-in-trouble)
So..until I read otherwise I guess I will go with this as probably the hows and whys. :)

[jeep]

Interesting video. I remember swimming in the lake when I was a kid and I was floating almost above the surface because of the saline content. You certainly don't need a life jacket! If you ever swim in the lake, make sure you don't get the water in your eyes, lol... Brine shrimp were everywhere.

On another thought, I've been looking around for different strains and there's not much detail on sizes. BSD says their San Francisco strain is some of the smallest. I haven't tried it yet because I'm trying to research other sources, but I have to say I do like the eggs I got from Green Bay Aquatic Foods. I see a noticeable difference in size and cleanliness as opposed to the regular BSD eggs. After hatching, the bbs from Green Bay is cleaner and not as pungent as the BSD brand. Also, the BSD brand is so dirty that it clogs the drain tube about 8 hours after hatching. But, this could be because the eggs have been stored in a freezer for quite some time and may have past their prime. I don't know that for sure though because they were given to me...

I talked to the owner of Green Bay and he said his eggs come from Kazakhstan, but I can't find any specific details on bbs from that region, or any other region for that matter.

My interest in this subject comes from trying to find the best first food for my Rams. I have no experience with them, but they seem much smaller and slower growing than discus fry and I want to see if I can improve the process with a smaller bbs that they can eat earlier than I think they are now. I think I'll order a small amount Green Bay and a small amount of the San Francisco strain from BSD and compare them side by side before ordering a large quantity.

[brewmaster15]

Brian I have a chart somewhere on the comparison of size and nutrition of the various strains .. I will see if I can dig it up.

As for your brine shrimp cysts.. I had come across this article while researching the global Brine shrimp industry .

https://www.thethirdpole.net/en/livelihoods/tiny-shrimp-lifeline-for-communities-uzbek-aral-sea/

This may be where your cysts came from.

Unrelated side note.. never thought of eating brine shrimp however.. from the above article


Finally, the shrimp can be a cheap, low-impact source of protein, says Sorgeloos. “Artemia is the lowest in the food chain possible,” he explained. “You can compare it with krill: artemia converts microalgae and particulate matter into high-quality protein. Eating artemia is like eating plankton.”

In Vietnam’s Mekong Delta, omelette made from brine shrimp biomass, chicken eggs, rice flour and vegetables has been a regular meal for some communities since the 1990s. This recipe offers a partial or full alternative to the traditional crab and fish cakes. “Direct consumption of brine shrimp by humans has been and continues to be practised by indigenous tribes in the Americas and Africa,” added Nguyen

[brewmaster15]

Brian, size chart..
135538

Info from....https://www.fao.org/3/w3732e/w3732e0m.htm
Which is an excellent overview of Brine shrimp.

Hth,
Al

[GregMD]

I’ve only bought brine shrimp 1x about 18 mos ago. Stored them in the freezer and are still using the same 100g tin. Got them from aquarium coop https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/fish-food/products/aquarium-co-op-brine-shrimp-eggs?variant=31598393851973.

I hatch them in the Ziss hatchery they sell and it has been very easy. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/breeding-supplies/products/ziss-brine-shrimp-hatchery

[jeep]

Brian, size chart..
135538

Info from....https://www.fao.org/3/w3732e/w3732e0m.htm
Which is an excellent overview of Brine shrimp.

Hth,
Al

Thanks Al! According to this chart, the San Fran strain is the smallest, although the Aral region isn't mentioned. I wonder if this is because of the colder environment?

The San Fran strain seems the way to go but I still think I'll try a side by side comparison, mainly because of how clean the Green Bay brand is, although I personally won't be eating any anytime soon, lol...

[brewmaster15]

Brian, is there a reason why you want the smallest baby brine shrimp for your black rams? I've not bred blacks but when I bred German Blue Rams and Gold Rams regular GsL brine shrimp cysts were fine for fry. Are the blacks a smaller ram?

One area that really seems to be when the smaller San Frans ones are helpful is when artificially breeding Discus.. the discus fry will take these easier than the standard GSL ones. Ive never used them as they are more expensive.

[jeep]

The Rams just seem much smaller and slower growing than discus fry, Someone who breeds Rams recently suggested that I use the SF strain because of size.

Again, I have no experience breeding Rams so this may just be the norm, but I do find the tanks become pretty dirty because of uneaten bbs and a lack of mechanical filtration until they get larger. Even with a small HOB, I'm afraid they will get sucked up. And, I can't do a good cleaning because they fry seem to scatter across the bottom of the tank and can get sucked up no matter how hard I try to avoid them.

Any changes to my routine are welcome...

[brewmaster15]

I used the hydro 5 sponge filters in 10 gal tanks for my Rams at the time..Those were easy to remove and clean as necessary. Rams aren't as obligate on live BBS as our Discus. I had great success with powered dry foods as well as BBS..Coffee grinder to fine dust, using a turkey baster to gently blow it on the mass of fry . You can also try the Prepared fry powders that are common now like Hikari First bites or Ultra Fresh Baby Fish Food,

[jeep]

I did find some First Bites in my freezer and have been using it. The fry are still alive so they must be eating something, lol...

I'm ordering more sponge filters but Jehmco is out of them until next week or so. Maybe I'll had another one. So far, I don't think I have a water quality issue, but rather a water debris issue.

Maybe they're growing just fine. I just don't know how fast they should grow. The first spawn is about 2 months old and about 3/8" at the largest but there are some smalls in there as well. They are eating solid foods like flake and BH now and seem fine.

EDIT: I just looked again and they're about 3/4"

[Hicgup]

I have had the best luck raising ram fry by starting them on small strain rotifers that have been cultured at 5 p.p.t. Salinity. Back when I was breeding/raising rams I could average 95% survival with rotifers. Better than any other feed for me.

[Hicgup]

A good read for artemia culture. https://digitalpubs.ext.vt.edu/vcedigitalpubs/7687248212687913/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1609376#articl eId1609376

[Hicgup]

Al I have used the E Z Eggs and there is a learning curve to getting good hatches with them. But that can be true of any pickled cyst. (De capped preserved in a hyper saline refrigerated condition). I prefer to de cap my own cysts a weeks worth of cysts at a time, but a well decapped and proper moisture level has given me good hatches for up to two weeks.

[brewmaster15]

I have had the best luck raising ram fry by starting them on small strain rotifers that have been cultured at 5 p.p.t. Salinity. Back when I was breeding/raising rams I could average 95% survival with rotifers. Better than any other feed for me.

Thats a great tip Steve, Thanks! I've never cultured rotifers.

al

[Hicgup]

Not hard to culture rotifers , but again there is a learning curve. Consistency works wonders. Keep them fed and clean and you can have millions available to harvest daily. It may feel odd at first but harvesting 40% of a culture every day keeps a culture young (4 To 5 days old on average) and productive. I HIGHLY suggest using Reed Mariculture Roti Grow paste or even their Nannochloropsis paste. With 68 Billion cells per ml a quart can raise Billions of rotifers.



paste. Lasts for several weeks in a refrigerator and can be kept frozen for a year. With 68 Billion cells per ml a quart can raise Billions of rotifers.

[Willie]

We had a speaker from San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp present to the Minnesota Aquarium Society about a year ago. He advised that all the eggs are sourced from China due to environmental degradation in both SF Bay and the Great Salt Lake.

[brewmaster15]

We had a speaker from San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp present to the Minnesota Aquarium Society about a year ago. He advised that all the eggs are sourced from China due to environmental degradation in both SF Bay and the Great Salt Lake.

Willie thats a real bomb shell. So they admitted to importing the cysts from China and repackaging them as San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp?

al

[Hicgup]

Although true San Francisco strain artemia have not been available for years (I still have a couple of pounds that have been in a freezer for over a decade) you can buy artemia cysts from the GSL that have been graded and selected to be smaller. So although that company may only sell imported cysts, GSL cysts, including smaller “S.F.” Cysts should be available.

[Willie]

Willie thats a real bomb shell. So they admitted to importing the cysts from China and repackaging them as San Francisco Bay Brine Shrimp?

al

He said this openly, even showed slides of Chinese harvests. So, yes.

[brewmaster15]

Thats really interesting and goes along well with my belief that some are also sourced from Russia... though if from China or Russia its not being made known apparently.