Another wigglers now what post

[GregMD]

Pretty new here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46499-Tell-us-about-yourselves-Please&p=1371854&viewfull=1#post1371854).

Things have settled in my tank (I lost one fish that was very sick early on). Since then things have been stable, and the fish are growing.


So much to my surprise, about a month ago I found eggs on the rocks in the tank. They were all eaten a few days later. About two weeks after that they spawned again on a canister filter intake.

So I got the picture and separated them to a 29-gallon tank to spawn. They laid eggs within days again.

This time I have wigglers. I am trying to keep my expectations VERY low as I hadn't expected to ever breed discus, but I'm also excited to see what happens.

I have a few specific questions:

How often should I change water while they are wigglers before they are eating off the slime coat?
How often should I change the water after they attach and start eating?
Should I be feeding the parents normally during this whole process?
Anything else I should be thinking of?
Should I keep the temp anywhere in particular? It's 86 now.


My plan was to let them eat the slime coat for a few weeks, then get them on baby brine shrimp, fry food, etc.

Open to any and all feedback!

135320135320

[GregMD]

Separately can anyone tell me the trick to have pics portray in portrait? ^^^^^^

[GregMD]

Pretty new here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46499-Tell-us-about-yourselves-Please&p=1371854&viewfull=1#post1371854).

Things have settled in my tank (I lost one fish that was very sick early on). Since then things have been stable, and the fish are growing.


So much to my surprise, about a month ago I found eggs on the rocks in the tank. They were all eaten a few days later. About two weeks after that they spawned again on a canister filter intake.

So I got the picture and separated them to a 29-gallon tank to spawn. They laid eggs within days again.

This time I have wigglers. I am trying to keep my expectations VERY low as I hadn't expected to ever breed discus, but I'm also excited to see what happens.

I have a few specific questions:

How often should I change water while they are wigglers before they are eating off the slime coat?
How often should I change the water after they attach and start eating?
Should I be feeding the parents normally during this whole process?
Anything else I should be thinking of?
Should I keep the temp anywhere in particular? It's 86 now.


My plan was to let them eat the slime coat for a few weeks, then get them on baby brine shrimp, fry food, etc.

Open to any and all feedback!

135320135320

One more question: Should I leave the lights on all night to help the wigglers find the parents once they are free swimming?

[brewmaster15]

Pretty new here (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46499-Tell-us-about-yourselves-Please&p=1371854&viewfull=1#post1371854).

Things have settled in my tank (I lost one fish that was very sick early on). Since then things have been stable, and the fish are growing.


So much to my surprise, about a month ago I found eggs on the rocks in the tank. They were all eaten a few days later. About two weeks after that they spawned again on a canister filter intake.

So I got the picture and separated them to a 29-gallon tank to spawn. They laid eggs within days again.

This time I have wigglers. I am trying to keep my expectations VERY low as I hadn't expected to ever breed discus, but I'm also excited to see what happens.

I have a few specific questions:

How often should I change water while they are wigglers before they are eating off the slime coat?
How often should I change the water after they attach and start eating?
Should I be feeding the parents normally during this whole process?
Anything else I should be thinking of?
Should I keep the temp anywhere in particular? It's 86 now.


My plan was to let them eat the slime coat for a few weeks, then get them on baby brine shrimp, fry food, etc.

Open to any and all feedback!

135320135320
Hey congrats! Thats a great experience you are starting Greg! You will find theres a bunch of different ways of doing this but heres mine.
1) I dont change the water while they are wigglers on the cone... I resume water changes as soon as they attach.
2) Once they attach I start with 30% wc per day.. more if large spawn... its important to use stable water .. for me I have to use aged water thats been aerated over night. I increase wc as fry grow ..Its not uncommon for 100% wc daily for a large spawn..
3) I feed the adults 1x a day when they are tending wigglers ..My goal is keep the water clean..Avoid messy foods if you can
4) when the fry go free swimming its sometimes helpful to drop the water levels to the just above the fish...its easier for the fry to attach... this is often really helpful with pigeons like. Yours.
5) 82-86 is fine.


I would start them on Bbs within a few days of them attaching. They will grow faster and be less likely to over eat on the parents.

Sometimes its also helpful to turn down the lights or partially block them.. bright lights can be an issue with attachment.

Good luck! I will be crossing my fingers for you!

Al

[brewmaster15]

One more question: Should I leave the lights on all night to help the wigglers find the parents once they are free swimming?
I do.

[GregMD]

So I now have lots of free swimmers. I have a seen a few hanging around one of the parents, many are swimming near the top of the water at the breeding cone, and others are just wandering around. I have lowered the water level to 50% (just a few inches above the filter output.

When should I take the breeding cone out?

Video: https://share.icloud.com/photos/0d6pxLX6Z-WLwAy8UIaf3c0GA

[brewmaster15]

You can take the cone out as soon as they all leave it.


What kind of filter are you using?

[LizStreithorst]

Congratulations to you. I was wrong about your water. Getting wiggler is a huge deal, even better when it from such a good looking pair!

[brewmaster15]

Greg, you can literally lower that water until the its just above the top of the pair... if you have a sponge filter it can be removed and stored for a day in zip lock bag left open. Leave the air bubbling.Doing these two steps will help the fry attach.. once attached you replace sponge and fill tank.

Do not feed pair at this point.. not until they are attached and feeding.

[GregMD]

Thanks Liz and Al.

Al I am using a box filter with seachem matrix and floss. https://www.jehmco.com/html/box_filters.html. I removed the uptube which reduces flow a bit and allowed me to lower the water level to about half of the tank. I would have stuck a sponge in there, but I didn't have a fine sponge handy that was cycled. I have some course sponges cycled but I was worried about the fry getting stuck in them.

Liz I think you were right about water (at least if you are talking about more frequently changing the water). I upped to every other day and have kept the nitrates below 10 and often around 5.

To be honest, I am very surprised about all of this. These fish have been in my home for 2 months, and I didn't expect them to be happy and breeding already.

I'm trying to keep my expectations low!

[GregMD]

Al, thanks, my message was sent before I saw yours. I'm removing and lowering now :).

[GregMD]

So things keep progressing. I am SO expecting to fail because Dicsus shouldn't breed the first time on their own and be successful, right?

But they keep doing ok. I was actually away for 3 days this past weekend, so I added the filter back and filled up the tank with fresh water before leaving. I fully expected to return to no fry, but they were still there when I returned.

I changed the water on return yesterday and again this morning.

A couple of questions:
1. the dad seems to be eating sparsely, but the mom doesn't. Should I be concerned or do anything different?
2. The fry seem to wander all over the tank, and I get worried that they don't know where the parents are, but then when I change the water, they quickly find mom and attach. Is this normal?
3. I'm assuming I should try some first bites and baby brine shrimp tomorrow or Wednesday? That would be 5 or 6 days post free swimming.
4. Should I be doing any kind of preventative medicine, salt, etc.?

Thanks for all the help. Quick video update: https://share.icloud.com/photos/03b3PHIChxslJHcEuy9E-Q-Kg
Greg

[CliffsDiscus]

Breeding pairs sometimes would eat sparling, so feed what they can eat in a few minutes. It's normal for the fry to wander once they are not really depending on the parents. Fry can be fed 2 to 3 days after free swimming with BBS.
You might want to set up a grow out tank for the babies.
One last thing remove the babies if there any aggression between the pair.

[LizStreithorst]

Sometimes pairs are naturals from the get-go. You are lucky. Get your BBS going like Cliff said. Hoping for continued success.

[GregMD]

So at about 10 days post seeing wigglers we are still going strong. https://share.icloud.com/photos/05dM2eM8LasXnFCxE8lSetkyA

I count about 20 fry. I am changing water 2x a day and started brine shrimp this week.

[brewmaster15]

Greg, congrats! Nice accomplishment there. Looking good so far. I would definitely start bbs as soon as you can.
Al

[Greg-Florida]

Separately can anyone tell me the trick to have pics portray in portrait? ^^^^^^

Congrats on the wigglers! I didn't see this answered so here's what I've learned:
Edit the photo by cropping a bit, then it will post as intended.
Resizing the image for the same intention works only sometimes for me.
HTH.
Greg

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Greg, the fry look good and seems you are doing very well with the parents and fry :D
Pat

[LizStreithorst]

You are doing so well. I'm proud of you for being such a fast learner. I know what it's like to try not to keep your hopes up. I've found out over time that no matter how much you try, your high hopes win. I've given up on trying to keep my hopes low. Cliff said earlier that you should set up a grow out tank. Do you have room for more tanks? There's no sense in breeding Discus if you don't have room to grow them out to at least quarter size. You can sell them here or on AquaBid. I've done both but here is better because they will go to people who know what they're doing.

[GregMD]

Thanks for the encouraging words. It is fun and they keep growing. Here is the update video: https://youtube.com/shorts/_haKZdqCT0E?feature=share. I was gone for three nights again and they seemed to grow the most so far during that time. I count 20 ish.

Liz I have way too many tanks (10 currently and room for more). I have three 29s on that countertop and I am planning on using one to grow out, one for the parents, and one for quarantine. I’m assuming a 29 is plenty big for growing them out. If they need more room I have an open 40 breeder.

[GregMD]

The fry are continuing to grow seemingly well. I am doing 2x daily water changes and feeding 4-6 times with BBS and Triopical discus baby granules.

The next challenge is that I have noticed the same white poop indicating internal parasites on this pair as the main tank (see http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?139872-White-poop). To be expected, as I had medicated this pair with paraclense a few weeks ago, but that doesn't seem to knock it all out when used as the package recommends.

Should I start a 10 day metro course with these fish and the fry? Wait until the parents are removed? Other options?

I'm wondering if the fry need to be treated since they are in the tank. And can they even be treated at this young age (2 weeks post free swim).

The parents are eating lightly and seem otherwise fine.

p.s. haven' lost any fry to date that I can tell, they seem to be healthy currently

[LizStreithorst]

From what I have read here, the metro won't hurt the kids at all. If the parents have it, they will get it, too. You don't need that after all your hard work.

[GregMD]

18 days since free swimming. Anyone have specific recommendations of when to pull fry?
https://youtube.com/shorts/_uuODmDnn70?feature=share

[brewmaster15]

As long as the parents arent getting eaten raw or arent fighting or irritated by the fry you can leave them much longer.. Or at this point you can easily move them...its your choice at this point Greg.
135517


Al

[LizStreithorst]

Are the kids eating from the parents at? They're not in the video.

[GregMD]

They are still sometimes eating from the parents. But I’m also feeding BBS and Tropical Discus Baby Granules very frequently and doing 2x a day water changes.

[LizStreithorst]

Do want Al said. He likes to remove his early I leave mine in for 3weeks as long as they don't bother their parents.

[CliffsDiscus]

I usually remove the fry before they start eating from the tank floor, don't want them to pick up any cyst from the fluke.

[LizStreithorst]

That's the best way, I suppose. I just hate missing out on watching the parents care for the fry. It's just so beautiful to me.

[GregMD]

21 days old. I’ve counted 23 fish when I take a pic and then count. I’m planning on pulling the parents out in another week or so.
https://youtube.com/shorts/NmSYG3YOln8?feature=share

[brewmaster15]

Greg, those fry look great. They are growing nicely for you too. By the looks so far they look like they will be pretty clean too as far as peppering. Not surprising as the parents are clean but you never know what will happen when you breed two pigeons.

[GregMD]

27 days old. 23 Fry. They eat a lot of baby brine shrimp, and I have them on tropical discus baby pellets. They seem quite happy with their parents, and the parents seem pretty happy, so I am leaving them in for another week.

I left them for another 3 nights last weekend with the auto-feeder on and they did just fine.

I've moved to 1x a day water changes from 2x a day. They seem to be still thriving. I also added a second box filter with more seachem matrix and a bag of purigen.

Beginning to plan for where they are going. I have a niece that is taking 6 but will have 17 left. I may build another display tank (150 gallon planted) for most of the remaining fish. That will be a months/year-long project as I will grow them to adulthood before putting them in with the plants.

I am leaving for 6 weeks beginning next week. My niece will be doing daily water changes and feeding them in addition to the auto feeder. Trying to get them as big as possible on BBS before I leave. Once I'm gone they'll be getting auto feeder pellets 4x a day and frozen food 1x.


http://youtube.com/shorts/q0zNWFM-GPo?feature=share

[brewmaster15]

Greg, be sure to leave your niece with this forums info. If anything happens while you are gone, we may be able to help. 6 WEEKS is a long trip.. you are lucky to have your nieces help. Safe trip!

Al