brewmaster15
06-10-2023, 09:48 AM
I made a comment in another post about fish keeping and posted
I also take it with a grain of salt when we talk about what we used to do decades ago as working fine.. it didnt and doesnt ..or we would still be doing it. keeping fish alive for months at a time isnt hard.. they take forever to waste away and die. I can tell you with great certainty that the fish I keep today are many times as healthy robust and long lived as the many fish I and other hobbyists killed decades ago when we were experienced and doing everything "right" at the time.
I was asked by a member here to start a thread about this with regards to Discus Keeping. Feel free to add to this list if anyone has other things they feel have changed in the Hobby.
1) Back in the Early years of Discus Keeping, it was commonly thought that if you wanted to keep Discus you needed soft acidic water. This was before R/O water filters so many hobbyists not blessed with water like this would try and change their pH by using acids and buffers... which lead to huge pH swings which stressed out Discus. As we learned more and more Domestics became available we realized that Discus can in fact adapt to a much wider range of pHs and today we have hobbyists keeping them in waters in the pH 8 range. I myself keep and breed wilds in the pH 7 range. Discus do well in pH 5-6 range as thats what they evolved in.. and if we want to keep them in it we can now more easily by using R/O thats a huge change from old times.. many discus were probably killed while trying to duplicate the Amazon in the early days.
2)"Undergravel filters"... These used to be the norm..now they are old tech and though in theory they work well , they have the potential to really foul the tank. I know some people still swear by them, and I have used them myself in both fresh and salt water tanks, but the hobby of discus keeping has moved from these deep bed filters to bare bottom tanks or thin sand ... and its really been a positive change for the hobby. Discus do not like high organic loads and grow best when we remove the organic waste regularly vs hiding it under the gravel. I do realize undergravel filters still have proponents and they do work for what they are designed..but out of sight is not as good as out of tank when dealing with wastes IMO. Sponge filters, canister filters, sumps and hang on the backs are better choices for discus tanks.
3) "Old water is best" There was a notion that old water was better than fresh water, it was encouraged to do few water changes because Discus did better in tanks with old water. This is a fallacy that probably stemmed from the days of when wilds were imported and kept.. Old water does tend to be acidic, so the wilds may have initially done well in it..but old water is loaded with Dissolved organics and really is not good for growing Discus or maintaining them ..Today most of us recognize that fish do better with clean water than dirty water I think alot growth in the hobby of Discus Keeping comes from learning that Discus thrive in Clean water and do poorly in dirty water. This old water nonsense also was probably related to few people understanding the concept of aging your water in a storage barrel to stabilize its pH and Blow off co2. Thankfully the concept of water changes and how it benefits discus became the new norm.
4) Foods.. Foods have come a long way. Initially Discus were fed alot of live foods, often collected from questionable sources..Live tubifex comes to mind. These foods can be huge sources of disease. Today we have cleaner live foods like farmed blackworms, we have more frozen food choices and an abundance of quality dry foods available. Somewhere along the way we started feeding beefheart mixes as well which allowed large farms to economically raise many domestic discus on a cheap organ Meat, beefheart. That food is still used today but we also have so many more choices.
5)Quarantine.. There was none. It was very common for hobbyists to buy discus and just drop them into their tank.. leading often times to very bad experiences and fish losses. The concept of quarantining was well known to scientists and pathologists, but really didn't become main stream until a few decades ago among hobbyists. There still are some today that play Russian Roulette with their fish tanks and refuse to be patient and Quarantine. I like to think that the internet forums really helped here. When people see other hobbyists dealing with disease outbreak from quarantining it make them think twice.
6) Medications. .. Think about how little we knew about Discus Diseases and what we had for medications.. There were a few really toxic ones, or antibiotics that were really not well studied in fish. Now we have Dewormers, antiprotozoan med, various medications and more knowledge on diagnosis..Back in the beginning if you had issues, you would use shot gun medications that were meant to hopefully knock everything out..now we take a more targeted approach. One medication I think of that was a go to in the early days was copper.. very effective at killing invertebrates and protozoans, I used that in its several forms for a long time..Problem is its got a real dark side and can be toxic to fish and some forms are persistent in the tank. pH and water hardness affect the toxicity. I think the falling out of favor of using copper was a positive for discus keepers
7) Tank mates. It used to be very common to go to a petshop and see Discus in community tanks with all manner of fish. Hobbyists that kept fish would see the discus, buy them, and toss them in with what ever else they were keeping. Generally little thought was given to appropriate tank mates and rarely did people keep a tank of discus by themself. Tanks dedicated to discus are the norm now which I think has been really beneficial for the hobby as it allows us to focus on the needs of one species of fish.
8)Sources,, initially Petshops were really the only option for most hobbyists and often times the discus were not healthy as they were not kept well. Over time you could mail order Discus as people started breeding them, now you can buy from a huge number of online vendors and compare and see what you are getting.
9) Quality. This one really is a recent thing. The internet gave rise to forums and Forums allowed people to talk about what made a Discus a healthy good quality fish. It actually drove breeders and sellers to up the standards. Prior to this it was extremely common to see sickly Discus with terrible shapes, huge eyes etc. being sold at petshops. These Discus generally did not survive long once bought. Unfortunately petshops often still have sickly Discus but more and more of them are bringing better quality stock and I think understand what these fish need to thrive more.
10) SimplyDiscus.. :) It wasn't a thing until 2002.. Since then I have no doubt its been a positive change for the hobby. Can't take all the credit though as there were other great forums before it that paved the way as well..most are now long gone but they all gave us a place to talk about these fish and figure out what worked and Didn't work.
So that just some of my thoughts on the way the hobby as evolved. Please feel free to add to this list or if you want to disagree with my thoughts, thats fine too.
al
I also take it with a grain of salt when we talk about what we used to do decades ago as working fine.. it didnt and doesnt ..or we would still be doing it. keeping fish alive for months at a time isnt hard.. they take forever to waste away and die. I can tell you with great certainty that the fish I keep today are many times as healthy robust and long lived as the many fish I and other hobbyists killed decades ago when we were experienced and doing everything "right" at the time.
I was asked by a member here to start a thread about this with regards to Discus Keeping. Feel free to add to this list if anyone has other things they feel have changed in the Hobby.
1) Back in the Early years of Discus Keeping, it was commonly thought that if you wanted to keep Discus you needed soft acidic water. This was before R/O water filters so many hobbyists not blessed with water like this would try and change their pH by using acids and buffers... which lead to huge pH swings which stressed out Discus. As we learned more and more Domestics became available we realized that Discus can in fact adapt to a much wider range of pHs and today we have hobbyists keeping them in waters in the pH 8 range. I myself keep and breed wilds in the pH 7 range. Discus do well in pH 5-6 range as thats what they evolved in.. and if we want to keep them in it we can now more easily by using R/O thats a huge change from old times.. many discus were probably killed while trying to duplicate the Amazon in the early days.
2)"Undergravel filters"... These used to be the norm..now they are old tech and though in theory they work well , they have the potential to really foul the tank. I know some people still swear by them, and I have used them myself in both fresh and salt water tanks, but the hobby of discus keeping has moved from these deep bed filters to bare bottom tanks or thin sand ... and its really been a positive change for the hobby. Discus do not like high organic loads and grow best when we remove the organic waste regularly vs hiding it under the gravel. I do realize undergravel filters still have proponents and they do work for what they are designed..but out of sight is not as good as out of tank when dealing with wastes IMO. Sponge filters, canister filters, sumps and hang on the backs are better choices for discus tanks.
3) "Old water is best" There was a notion that old water was better than fresh water, it was encouraged to do few water changes because Discus did better in tanks with old water. This is a fallacy that probably stemmed from the days of when wilds were imported and kept.. Old water does tend to be acidic, so the wilds may have initially done well in it..but old water is loaded with Dissolved organics and really is not good for growing Discus or maintaining them ..Today most of us recognize that fish do better with clean water than dirty water I think alot growth in the hobby of Discus Keeping comes from learning that Discus thrive in Clean water and do poorly in dirty water. This old water nonsense also was probably related to few people understanding the concept of aging your water in a storage barrel to stabilize its pH and Blow off co2. Thankfully the concept of water changes and how it benefits discus became the new norm.
4) Foods.. Foods have come a long way. Initially Discus were fed alot of live foods, often collected from questionable sources..Live tubifex comes to mind. These foods can be huge sources of disease. Today we have cleaner live foods like farmed blackworms, we have more frozen food choices and an abundance of quality dry foods available. Somewhere along the way we started feeding beefheart mixes as well which allowed large farms to economically raise many domestic discus on a cheap organ Meat, beefheart. That food is still used today but we also have so many more choices.
5)Quarantine.. There was none. It was very common for hobbyists to buy discus and just drop them into their tank.. leading often times to very bad experiences and fish losses. The concept of quarantining was well known to scientists and pathologists, but really didn't become main stream until a few decades ago among hobbyists. There still are some today that play Russian Roulette with their fish tanks and refuse to be patient and Quarantine. I like to think that the internet forums really helped here. When people see other hobbyists dealing with disease outbreak from quarantining it make them think twice.
6) Medications. .. Think about how little we knew about Discus Diseases and what we had for medications.. There were a few really toxic ones, or antibiotics that were really not well studied in fish. Now we have Dewormers, antiprotozoan med, various medications and more knowledge on diagnosis..Back in the beginning if you had issues, you would use shot gun medications that were meant to hopefully knock everything out..now we take a more targeted approach. One medication I think of that was a go to in the early days was copper.. very effective at killing invertebrates and protozoans, I used that in its several forms for a long time..Problem is its got a real dark side and can be toxic to fish and some forms are persistent in the tank. pH and water hardness affect the toxicity. I think the falling out of favor of using copper was a positive for discus keepers
7) Tank mates. It used to be very common to go to a petshop and see Discus in community tanks with all manner of fish. Hobbyists that kept fish would see the discus, buy them, and toss them in with what ever else they were keeping. Generally little thought was given to appropriate tank mates and rarely did people keep a tank of discus by themself. Tanks dedicated to discus are the norm now which I think has been really beneficial for the hobby as it allows us to focus on the needs of one species of fish.
8)Sources,, initially Petshops were really the only option for most hobbyists and often times the discus were not healthy as they were not kept well. Over time you could mail order Discus as people started breeding them, now you can buy from a huge number of online vendors and compare and see what you are getting.
9) Quality. This one really is a recent thing. The internet gave rise to forums and Forums allowed people to talk about what made a Discus a healthy good quality fish. It actually drove breeders and sellers to up the standards. Prior to this it was extremely common to see sickly Discus with terrible shapes, huge eyes etc. being sold at petshops. These Discus generally did not survive long once bought. Unfortunately petshops often still have sickly Discus but more and more of them are bringing better quality stock and I think understand what these fish need to thrive more.
10) SimplyDiscus.. :) It wasn't a thing until 2002.. Since then I have no doubt its been a positive change for the hobby. Can't take all the credit though as there were other great forums before it that paved the way as well..most are now long gone but they all gave us a place to talk about these fish and figure out what worked and Didn't work.
So that just some of my thoughts on the way the hobby as evolved. Please feel free to add to this list or if you want to disagree with my thoughts, thats fine too.
al